Venthyr paladin getting nerfed in the future?

[Zig Zug]

Tell that to all of Limit's Holy PLDs in their world first kill. All of them were Venthyr. But you know better than those guys right? I mean, you're better than those guys right? You got the world first, not them? RighT? Right?

gtfo

You know you're wrong, right?

[Unzd]

Loving venthyr paladin.
Doubt they Will nerf it.

[Swnem]

Kyrian is best for both prot and holy. It is also probably the best for Ret dungeons.

Venthyr is only good for raiding ret. It doesn't matter if it does a bit more single target dps. Holy needs toll to spread their holy shock buff and burst healing and prot for the burst threat and damage on packs + holy power on both.

Venthyr underperforms in most situations compared to toll. Only good for single target. What world first guilds do is not what average players do. They have to kill bosses undergeared. I am sure that they see value in the single target damage and the AoE healing saving mana to the healers. For it to be useful coordination and timing is important. You will not get that on regular groups.
There is no reason to nerf hollow cause it's not overpowered. It just has it's niche.

[Justitiaxx]

Anyone else think they will end up nerfing venthyr paladin for next tier?

Reasoning: it allows tank/healer to perform far more dps than any other covenant choice for any tank/heal spec, which I expect guilds will use to nullify and dps checks

Maybe I'm overthinking it but what do yall think

4 Min CD, massive polp on the floor in a game where movement mechanics are key and all that "massive damage" is completely negated. Venthyr ability is fine, even in PVP where the legendary with wings and hammer of wrath gives amazing dps for holy is meh, just use brain and see the big red stuff and shiny golden wings and run away.

If you get caught up in a stun outside of stun/personal, then gg to the Paladin who lined that up.

[deenman]

bad reasoning, they kill a raid with way lower itemlevel then any other guild in which for them a 4 min cooldown has more value vs a raid with 5-10 more ilvl

they killed it with an insane ilvl,i think they had more ilvl than the guys that killed it 7th or so,that happened like a month later

[Xath]

4 Min CD, massive polp on the floor in a game where movement mechanics are key and all that "massive damage" is completely negated. Venthyr ability is fine, even in PVP where the legendary with wings and hammer of wrath gives amazing dps for holy is meh, just use brain and see the big red stuff and shiny golden wings and run away.

If you get caught up in a stun outside of stun/personal, then gg to the Paladin who lined that up.

It's not just about the damage it's about the massive zone denial that basically stops all pressure from melee comps.

On topic I expect that it will get nerfed but the cd will get dropped as well so like 60% of current effectiveness but 2 minute cd. It just doesn't feel good to have a covenant ability that you use at most twice a fight on most fights and it's likely blizzard will realize that.

[tomten]

Kyrian is best for both prot and holy. It is also probably the best for Ret dungeons.

Venthyr is only good for raiding ret. It doesn't matter if it does a bit more single target dps. Holy needs toll to spread their holy shock buff and burst healing and prot for the burst threat and damage on packs + holy power on both.
.

Yeh, you're wrong.
Kyrian is pretty worthless in raiding, venthyr on the other hand?
Its amazing cooldown, doing both healing and dps for 30 seconds. Its extremely strong for that, what does DT do for you or anyone else in your raid? nothing? Yeh, so how do you reason its better, when it does nothing?

[h8ryan]

Yeh, you're wrong.
Kyrian is pretty worthless in raiding, venthyr on the other hand?
Its amazing cooldown, doing both healing and dps for 30 seconds. Its extremely strong for that, what does DT do for you or anyone else in your raid? nothing? Yeh, so how do you reason its better, when it does nothing?

DT worthless in raid? its basically a 1 minute revival that gives you enough HP to quickly do 2 light of dawns that synchronizes with every holy shock related conduit/legendary we have. wtf are you smoking lmao

[Swnem]

Yeh, you're wrong.
Kyrian is pretty worthless in raiding, venthyr on the other hand?
Its amazing cooldown, doing both healing and dps for 30 seconds. Its extremely strong for that, what does DT do for you or anyone else in your raid? nothing? Yeh, so how do you reason its better, when it does nothing?

That's a month old post almost.

There are some repairs i can make given the information i got since.
For holy, Venthyr is good for world first guilds that know what they are doing. Not really what you want. Sure, you will do more damage, but you will be a worse healer.

The repair i can make is that Divine toll is actually good for Ret in the raid as well. Actually, it's the best currently with a certain build that has you line up 5 cooldowns. It's not for everyone.

[tomten]

DT worthless in raid? its basically a 1 minute revival that gives you enough HP to quickly do 2 light of dawns that synchronizes with every holy shock related conduit/legendary we have. wtf are you smoking lmao

I dont play healer bro. But for prot and ret, DT is pretty useless in raids, especially if you compare the two.

[h8ryan]

I dont play healer bro. But for prot and ret, DT is pretty useless in raids, especially if you compare the two.

it's a one minute cooldown that gives you 350 mastery, you aren't very good at paladin if you can't figure out the applications for it.

[Roship]

We have a holy pally in our mythic group that's able to do 15-20k dps on pull and usually doing 5k+ dps overall if he is focusing on dpsing more than healing as Venthyr. I haven't been paying that much attention to what % of his damage Ashen Hallow does. But, going off of the firsthand experience I have, holy paladin DPS does seem out of whack right now compared to other healers and even actual lower-end DPS specs such as Survival or either warrior spec, and might be nerfed in the future.

[Dakara]

I think Maldraxxus and night fae abilities should get a straight up rework, even if they get buffed i wonder if anyone is going to pick them (assuming they dont become the best picks by a large margin) they're not fun to play with.

I’m on the verge of swapping my Hpally from Kyrian to NF because I want Soulshape and the MOG.... kinda waiting for the complete 9.1 notes, but might just Yolo it anyway.

For raid healing (Heroic) I can easily get by without DT. For M+, losing my “Oh shit” button will hurt, especially on higher keys, but I might swap to Seraphim and/or BoV to compensate. If it’s so bad that I can no longer heal +15’s I might just stop caring about M+ and KSM.

Been looking at different Talent/Lego combos to compensate for all the lost synergy from DT (AOE heal, Glimmer, Shock Barrier, Resources Gen). It’s pretty absurd just how much DT synergises with Holy compared to the other Covenants so perhaps they get some tweaks... or I’ll just be trying to fit a square peg through a round hole. /shrug

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Ashen Hallow is very strong. Holy Paladins using it to contribute to certain pulls in M+ cannot be ignored. 4 minute cooldown aside, you are using it a minimum of 5 times in a M+ dungeon and if your group is worth anything, lining up AH with certain pulls or boss fights is easy money.


That all being said I could definitely see a nerf in the future but... it's a 4 minute fucking cooldown. Holy Paladins running around not really knowing when to use it or just throwing it down all willy nilly. I can't imagine a severe nerf as there are still a metric fuck-ton more Kyrian Holy Paladins out there.

[Dakara]

If the new Lego’s are anything to go by, Blizzard seem to want every single Paladin to roll Kyrian. Especially Holy.

Curious to see what the Venthyr Lego will be...

[capri sunset]

If the new Lego’s are anything to go by, Blizzard seem to want every single Paladin to roll Kyrian. Especially Holy.

Curious to see what the Venthyr Lego will be...

It might take them a raid test or two to see that 20 holy power per minute from one ability that already does a lot shouldn't go live but I wouldn't worry about it. It's possible that with 60% effectiveness they mean it only hits 3 targets instead of 5 especially since when we (hopefully) end up being allowed to use two legendaries then at 60% effectiveness healing instead, it would be nerfing shock barrier.

It feels like the obvious hallow legendary is like the convoke one they showed, just halving the cd and the effects, I'd be pleasantly surprised if it's more interesting though.

The necro one is actually really nice, putting it at effectively 14 holy power per minute and you could always have 2 charges up for wings or to reliably force dp/awakening procs. If toll/hallow don't get too bonkers it would be nice to see it hopefully be a bit more competitive.

[Glorious Leader]

If the new Lego’s are anything to go by, Blizzard seem to want every single Paladin to roll Kyrian. Especially Holy.

Curious to see what the Venthyr Lego will be...

The holy legendary looks strong on paper. I don't know if it'll be better in practice than the shock one. Both would be fucking fantastic.

[Dzonathan]

The holy legendary looks strong on paper. I don't know if it'll be better in practice than the shock one. Both would be fucking fantastic.

Will Divine Resonance extra DT casts trigger Soulbind traits?
If so then balls to the walls OP BiS for all speccs to the point where all Holydins drop Kleia for either Pelagos or Mikanikos.
Why?

New Kyrian Legendary: Divine Resonance
Every 10 seconds after casting Divine Toll you cast it again at 60% effectiveness. This effect lasts 30 seconds.

New Mikanikos trait: Effusive Anima Accelerator
Activating your Kyrian class ability releases a blast of overcharged anima at your target’s location, dealing Arcane damage split evenly between all targets over 8 sec. Reduce the cooldown of your Kyrian class ability by 4 sec per affected enemy, to a maximum of 20 sec.

Assuming extra DT casts from leggo are 3 casts at different targets* instead of 5 and trigger Mikanikos trait CD reduction (/doubt) it would go like this:

0s - Divine Toll - Mikanikos trait trigger - 20s CD reduction, 40s left on CD. Leggo starts pulsing in 10s.
10s - Divine Resonance first pulse - If it triggers Mikanikos CD reduction trait then that is -12s CD reduction. 18s left on CD.
20s - Divine Resonance second pulse - If it triggers Mikanikos CD reduction trait then that is another -12s CD reduction. -4s left on CD.
20s - Divine Toll - Mikanikos traint trigger - 20s CD reduction, 40s left on CD. Leggo buff either refresh or gains another pulsing buff (/super doubt)

In case of Pelagos we'd lose the CD reduction but the pulse could refresh Combat Meditation which would mean perma 350 mastery (/super doubt).

No way in hell this leggo will be shipped like this.
I fully expect pulse DTs to not trigger soulbind traits.

Even so those pulse DTs still offer the following:
- 3HP/10s
- Free interrupts for Prot
- First Avenger shield refresh

[Glorious Leader]

Will Divine Resonance extra DT casts trigger Soulbind traits?
If so then balls to the walls OP BiS for all speccs to the point where all Holydins drop Kleia for either Pelagos or Mikanikos.
Why?

New Kyrian Legendary: Divine Resonance
Every 10 seconds after casting Divine Toll you cast it again at 60% effectiveness. This effect lasts 30 seconds.

New Mikanikos trait: Effusive Anima Accelerator
Activating your Kyrian class ability releases a blast of overcharged anima at your target’s location, dealing Arcane damage split evenly between all targets over 8 sec. Reduce the cooldown of your Kyrian class ability by 4 sec per affected enemy, to a maximum of 20 sec.

Assuming extra DT casts from leggo are 3 casts at different targets* instead of 5 and trigger Mikanikos trait CD reduction (/doubt) it would go like this:

0s - Divine Toll - Mikanikos trait trigger - 20s CD reduction, 40s left on CD. Leggo starts pulsing in 10s.
10s - Divine Resonance first pulse - If it triggers Mikanikos CD reduction trait then that is -12s CD reduction. 18s left on CD.
20s - Divine Resonance second pulse - If it triggers Mikanikos CD reduction trait then that is another -12s CD reduction. -4s left on CD.
20s - Divine Toll - Mikanikos traint trigger - 20s CD reduction, 40s left on CD. Leggo buff either refresh or gains another pulsing buff (/super doubt)

In case of Pelagos we'd lose the CD reduction but the pulse could refresh Combat Meditation which would mean perma 350 mastery (/super doubt).

No way in hell this leggo will be shipped like this.
I fully expect pulse DTs to not trigger soulbind traits.

Even so those pulse DTs still offer the following:
- 3HP/10s
- Free interrupts for Prot
- First Avenger shield refresh

Are the pulses smart healing? Like the reason I suggested it might not be as strong in practice is because its a fixed 10 second cast but like you might not need it in 10 seconds so the healing from it goes to waste. I wonder if it will refresh glimmer. Or actually proc the glimmer effect so you get the shared healing and damage. Could also be 5 holy shocks but each one is 60 percent so the extra holy power may go to waste if you've already got one.

[Dzonathan]

Are the pulses smart healing? Like the reason I suggested it might not be as strong in practice is because its a fixed 10 second cast but like you might not need it in 10 seconds so the healing from it goes to waste. I wonder if it will refresh glimmer. Or actually proc the glimmer effect so you get the shared healing and damage. Could also be 5 holy shocks but each one is 60 percent so the extra holy power may go to waste if you've already got one.

Guess we'll have to wait and see once this leggo hits PTR.

If said pulses will trigger:
- Talents (First Avenger)
- Conduits (Ringing Clarity, Vengful Shock)
- Soulbind traits (Combat Meditation, Effusive Anima Accelerator)
Then this Leggo will be go-to busted day 1 craft for Prot Pallies.

If not then I guess it main feature will be extra 3 HP/10s or 5HP/10s as you suspect.

If neither of the above then it will be very lackluster.

Personally I see pulses doing 3 casts that are affected by talents and conduits while also generating HP.