Solution for M+ leavers....

[Krakan]

Over so many chars the ratio shouldn't change much. To make players not capable of +10 the minority everyone above 800 score would have to have a couple more Alts than anyone below and also have only their main above 800. Realistically most of their alts will be above 800 too.

2.5 million out of 3.0 million chars are below 800 score, these are not mostly alts of better players.

I think the true issue is how many people seem to want to skip to the very end of the difficulty curve. A 14-15 key is often flooded with applicants who haven't timed so much as a 8. While a 10-12 can take an exceedingly long time to fill.

The problem is with the playerbase I think just not those regularly running 15s.

[rrayy]

Don't let Blizzards incompetence fool you!
Just.. take a look a other games and how they do it. Reporting/feedback systems are more than fine and doing their jobs.

It's... kinda sad that the biggest "issue" with Blizzard fanbois is that they just cannot imagine ANYTHING better than what Blizzard says/does.
However, I agree that IF BLIZZARD implements a system like this it will be abused! But pleeease don't think that every company on this planet is as incompetent as Blizzard!
That's why we need an external 3rd party system where they actually update and polish it to meet new demands.

Wow isn't other games.
Also, do you know how the WoW player base acts? IF you actually considered that you would realize why it is a bad idea. Hell, Blizzard itself removed dislikes from their offical forums because players there abused that system. It does not matter who careates the system. WoW players will abuse it because that it has a history of abusing tools like that.

[Nite92]

This list is sorted, you don't have to click through all pages, just jump to page 24800 or whatever.

More than 3 million different characters with at least one completed mythic+

A score of 800 is achieved by timing all +10s, about 0.5 million characters have this score. A score of 1280 means timing all +15s, about 0.09 million chars. If you timed all +10s your char is in the top 17% of all, if you timed all +15s in the top 2.7% (and so are you as a player assuming all players have a similar amount of Alts).

So yeah, 83% aren't even doing +10 and I think no matter how you look at it that's "most players".

So 1/6 have done ALL 10s in time. Id say this is a pretty substantial amount.
My point tho was, that you cant just link this without further explanation to prove your point

[Th3Scourge]

Not doing organized content =/= being shit at the game.

Wtf are u smokin

The entire game is predicated on 'organized content'. It's an MMO

[Glorious Leader]

My question is is their a proper etiquette for leaving? For example let's say dps are dying because they aren't doing mechanics properly but they decide to blame the healer or tank. Can I leave at that point? I don't really see why I should stick around to hear that my hps is low when they don't want to move out of puddles.

[Tziva]

If you're going to leave, IMO say why (so maybe people will fix the problem if it is fixable) and then leave group. I still see people fake DC all the fucking time and like why. That just wastes everyone's time more because they aren't sure if you actually quit or are coming back shortly.

I still don't really think it's appropriate to just dip from a key a lot of the time, but even in the situations where it is justified (and they definitely do exist), being up front is important.

[Twdft]

My question is is their a proper etiquette for leaving? For example let's say dps are dying because they aren't doing mechanics properly but they decide to blame the healer or tank. Can I leave at that point? I don't really see why I should stick around to hear that my hps is low when they don't want to move out of puddles.

I think the etiquette should be talking about what makes you want to quit. It might not be obvious to other players, they can't read your mind. So say what tilts you, see if anyone agrees and changes their behavior or if not say you it tilts you too much and you leave.

As pretty much anywhere in life: communication solves problems.

[Aurora]

My question is is their a proper etiquette for leaving? For example let's say dps are dying because they aren't doing mechanics properly but they decide to blame the healer or tank. Can I leave at that point? I don't really see why I should stick around to hear that my hps is low when they don't want to move out of puddles.

If it was a push group for time and you're not going to make it then explaining that will usually see others agree and disband since the group has already failed its goal.

If it was for completion then I think declaring "last try for me" is always reasonable and better than suddenly quitting. It's worth remembering that there's more people in the group than the toxic guy making dumb accusations and if it can be avoided it's better to not let the worst person in the party decide the outcome.

[tehealadin]

If you're going to leave, IMO say why (so maybe people will fix the problem if it is fixable) and then leave group. I still see people fake DC all the fucking time and like why. That just wastes everyone's time more because they aren't sure if you actually quit or are coming back shortly.

I still don't really think it's appropriate to just dip from a key a lot of the time, but even in the situations where it is justified (and they definitely do exist), being up front is important.

Yea, it can be easier to swallow if people are up front.

I very rarely leave a key, and it is usually when we hit a wall where we have been wiping and wiping against a boss and it is clear that we aren't making progress. And I don't mean simply wiping once or twice, I've had some runs that lasted like 2 hours, but I kept at it because we were making progress, if only small progress, where it was just silly mistakes or a lack of understanding of mechanics, and people were willing to listen and ask for help. I mean ones where people just refuse to take care of certain mechanics, refuse to communicate, where people do or fail to do the same things after 3 or 4 wipes with no indication that they are listening.

I have left the odd one where the group was ultra toxic. Normally I just slap people on ignore and continue, but I've been in the odd one (and it is rare) where most of the group are just really abusive to each other for no real reason and take long breaks just to abuse each other, when that happens I just say fuck it and leave.

[erifwodahs]

If you're going to leave, IMO say why (so maybe people will fix the problem if it is fixable) and then leave group. I still see people fake DC all the fucking time and like why. That just wastes everyone's time more because they aren't sure if you actually quit or are coming back shortly.

I still don't really think it's appropriate to just dip from a key a lot of the time, but even in the situations where it is justified (and they definitely do exist), being up front is important.

This would be nice, but in a lot of the cases people are heated up and won't take any reason and will cause more drama. I was told not to pull what I can't handle by a person who was running ahead and "helping" me to pull and he wouldn't listen that those packs weren't even on the route, it was my problem and I was shit tank. I get these quite often in failed keys.

[Glorious Leader]

This would be nice, but in a lot of the cases people are heated up and won't take any reason and will cause more drama. I was told not to pull what I can't handle by a person who was running ahead and "helping" me to pull and he wouldn't listen that those packs weren't even on the route, it was my problem and I was shit tank. I get these quite often in failed keys.

Yea i wish it was cordial and friendly but its really just a case where people in a group are looking to blame others for their apparent failures. I just leave if that happens to be honest,I understand why thats frustrating but I'm not really sure what obligation I should have towards people who are aggressively stupid.

The real solution to M+ leavers is to understand its gonna happen.

[derekmmorgan94]

high level M+ isn't for PUGS. Get a dedicated squad or deal with it.

- - - Updated - - -



Get a dedicated team and you wont have this to worry about.

Not sure if you read what I wrote... I agree. But I'm a casual player with a very busy schedule now that I manage a company. I was not complaining. I was saying the WoW community is too toxic for players to leave reviews on certain players and I was using an example as to why I feel that if other players could leave a review on your "review page" that determines if you get into groups, and guilds and what-not, then it would be a shit show. People online can be assholes. Not sure if you're new to the internet or what.

[TheLucky1]

Here's your solution: make solo queue for M+ up to 15, remove the timer and let groups be refilled. There's no need to turn the game into e-sports. People who like e-sports can still do their 20+ keys like they do them now.

The timer has nothing to do with e-sports, e-sports would be a lot more competitive, organized with mmr and (real)rankings and stuff.

The timer is there so that you play semi properly and don't cooldown cheese every single mob group so you can have your 15+ key done "in time"... even if it took 2-3 hours.

However i would like a solo que just to see all the salt and the gigantic sh'tshow that would be

[Glorious Leader]

The timer has nothing to do with e-sports, e-sports would be a lot more competitive, organized with mmr and (real)rankings and stuff.

The timer is there so that you play semi properly and don't cooldown cheese every single mob group so you can have your 15+ key done "in time"... even if it took 2-3 hours.

However i would like a solo que just to see all the salt and the gigantic sh'tshow that would be

I don't see the problem with this. If people want to do that...

[GnomeEU]

The timer has nothing to do with e-sports, e-sports would be a lot more competitive, organized with mmr and (real)rankings and stuff.

The timer is there so that you play semi properly and don't cooldown cheese every single mob group so you can have your 15+ key done "in time"... even if it took 2-3 hours.

However i would like a solo que just to see all the salt and the gigantic sh'tshow that would be

People don't even stay for 2 wipes. What makes you think the majority of players would stay 3 hours to finish a dungeon?? Let them if they like.

The fears of some people.
I hate the timer too and I do 15ies every week.
It's stress and give never time to explain or talk about anything. Mythic raid is less stress than a bad random group in keys.

Why does mythic raid not have a timer then. If you don't kill all bosses in 3 hours the ID is locked. You have lots of time to prepare, so don't complain xD

Let's have a timer on everything so people play decent right?

[bajcli]

People don't even stay for 2 wipes. What makes you think the majority of players would stay 3 hours to finish a dungeon?? Let them if they like.

The fears of some people.
I hate the timer too and I do 15ies every week.
It's stress and give never time to explain or talk about anything. Mythic raid is less stress than a bad random group in keys.

Why does mythic raid not have a timer then. If you don't kill all bosses in 3 hours the ID is locked. You have lots of time to prepare, so don't complain xD

Let's have a timer on everything so people play decent right?

Because raids are the main progression path in WoW, and has been since the release of the game. They never had a timer, they aren't designed that way.

M+ is an iteration on challenge modes, which was intended to be a side activity, a challenge, and the timer was part of the challenge. Now there is SOME gear attached to it, but it's still not a main avenue for gearing. (Other than the Great Vault, but for that, you don't need to finish dungeons in time anyway, so the timer might as well not exist if all you care about is choices in your GV)
If anything, in Shadowlands they brought M+ closer back to its roots of being in the game mostly for the challenge and much less so for gearing.
The timer makes more sense for it, now more than ever since WoD.

[faunski]

People don't even stay for 2 wipes. What makes you think the majority of players would stay 3 hours to finish a dungeon?? Let them if they like.

The fears of some people.
I hate the timer too and I do 15ies every week.
It's stress and give never time to explain or talk about anything. Mythic raid is less stress than a bad random group in keys.

Why does mythic raid not have a timer then. If you don't kill all bosses in 3 hours the ID is locked. You have lots of time to prepare, so don't complain xD

Let's have a timer on everything so people play decent right?

Raids do not have an infinetely scaling difficulty level. How would you upgrade a keystone without a timer? If there was only 20 levels set in stone, sure it might be fine without a timer, but that is pretty much a one trick pony since they stay the same after clearing them. What would be the best solution here?

[T-34]

Why does mythic raid not have a timer then. If you don't kill all bosses in 3 hours the ID is locked. You have lots of time to prepare, so don't complain xD

Let's have a timer on everything so people play decent right?

Mythic raids do have a timer... It is called enrage.

[Glorious Leader]

Because raids are the main progression path in WoW, and has been since the release of the game. They never had a timer, they aren't designed that way.

M+ is an iteration on challenge modes, which was intended to be a side activity, a challenge, and the timer was part of the challenge. Now there is SOME gear attached to it, but it's still not a main avenue for gearing. (Other than the Great Vault, but for that, you don't need to finish dungeons in time anyway, so the timer might as well not exist if all you care about is choices in your GV)
If anything, in Shadowlands they brought M+ closer back to its roots of being in the game mostly for the challenge and much less so for gearing.
The timer makes more sense for it, now more than ever since WoD.

Evidently the developers are too cowardly to offer alternatives that just MIGHT upset the precious supremacy of raid content.

[TheLucky1]

People don't even stay for 2 wipes. What makes you think the majority of players would stay 3 hours to finish a dungeon?? Let them if they like.

The fears of some people.
I hate the timer too and I do 15ies every week.
It's stress and give never time to explain or talk about anything. Mythic raid is less stress than a bad random group in keys.

Why does mythic raid not have a timer then. If you don't kill all bosses in 3 hours the ID is locked. You have lots of time to prepare, so don't complain xD

Let's have a timer on everything so people play decent right?

Because you can't cheese mythic raidbosses with waiting for cooldowns like trashpacks/bosses in dungeons, in fact raid bosses do have enrage timers mostly also to not cheese them/do degenerate strats.

Without a timer it would create degenerate gameplay and we all know how far certain strats trickle down to the more casual playstyles because it's "meta".

Yeah no thanks, the timer was well thought out and i'm glad we have it, it's not too stressing anyways if you don't do really high key levels.