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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Majority of ppl leave because other players are not performing well enough. I only do keys for vault so idc if they don't get timed. I waot until multiple wipes when its obvious ot probably can't be completed at all. Had a nw yesterday with 5 wipes on 2nd boss. 2 tries with lust, all spears gone, couldn't get below 20%. I left. I shldnt be punished for that
    I don't want people to be punished, and i barely even run M+ this expac. I was only pointing out that people will always leave when it goes tits up, without a punishment against it. And if the punishment is a big meh, people won't care.

    But if they go TOO heavy handed, they'll lose people so its tough

  2. #662
    RaiderIO is the only one that can fix this or Blizzard breaking the API to stop such services from working. If they would just track unfinished dungeons (I know it's not possible atm) you would see a frequent leaver have them in the 100s and not invite them for anything.

    They could also give more score for just finishing dungeons instead of just for timing them.

    Blizzard could also do things to help the people having their keys ruined by leavers.

    I think they should at least do something so that running your own key and having some dickhead leave after one wipe doesn't downgrade the key. If you could just run the same key level until you upgrade it would be much better overall. It could still downgrade on reset day if you didn't time the same lvl key like now.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    yeah - "you did it" - players who are in what ? top 1% of wow players.

    now you extrapolate your resoults on general playerbase ?

    thats like me saying that you shoudl bench press 120 kg in series without breaking a sweat because i and plenty other people around world have no problem to do so .

    this is what i hate about wow forums - everyone treats anyone who is even remotely less skilled then they as absolute trash - while those who are above them as "lol-nolifers lol get life " .
    An arbitrary comparison does rarely work in you favor of your argument, you can't compare so different things so easily.

    I'm sorry, but if +15s were done with 195 ilvl, and you cant do them with 215, it is a you problem.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    RaiderIO is the only one that can fix this or Blizzard breaking the API to stop such services from working. If they would just track unfinished dungeons (I know it's not possible atm) you would see a frequent leaver have them in the 100s and not invite them for anything.

    They could also give more score for just finishing dungeons instead of just for timing them.

    Blizzard could also do things to help the people having their keys ruined by leavers.

    I think they should at least do something so that running your own key and having some dickhead leave after one wipe doesn't downgrade the key. If you could just run the same key level until you upgrade it would be much better overall. It could still downgrade on reset day if you didn't time the same lvl key like now.
    This. A simple Dungeon Quit Counter, or % of dungeons quit listed beside your character in a queue or listing would solve it.

  5. #665
    Pandaren Monk Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Selfish behavior in games is only stopped by heavy handed punishment.
    you mean like doing content that you shouldn't be doing because you think you're better than you actually are?

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I don't want people to be punished, and i barely even run M+ this expac. I was only pointing out that people will always leave when it goes tits up, without a punishment against it. And if the punishment is a big meh, people won't care.

    But if they go TOO heavy handed, they'll lose people so its tough
    Imo, the onus is on the keyholder. Its up to them to properly vet the ppl they are inviting. Any system that punishes the leaver, is unfair imo. If I join your group, I only know about you. I didn't invite the 3 other ppl. If the group sucks really bad, I shldnt be forced to stay in the group. It sucks for the person running their key, and its obviously not always their fault, but its not as if a ruined key is the worst thing in the game. Sets them back an additional 40 mins to level it back up.

    The system as is definitely isn't perfect. But any change I've seen suggested has been far worse and more susceptible to abuse.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    This. A simple Dungeon Quit Counter, or % of dungeons quit listed beside your character in a queue or listing would solve it.
    I'd support this if they added a "fucks given" counter permanently set to 0 while they're doing it.

  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Imo, the onus is on the keyholder. Its up to them to properly vet the ppl they are inviting. Any system that punishes the leaver, is unfair imo. If I join your group, I only know about you. I didn't invite the 3 other ppl. If the group sucks really bad, I shldnt be forced to stay in the group. It sucks for the person running their key, and its obviously not always their fault, but its not as if a ruined key is the worst thing in the game. Sets them back an additional 40 mins to level it back up.

    The system as is definitely isn't perfect. But any change I've seen suggested has been far worse and more susceptible to abuse.
    What would be the harm in not having the key downgrade if you fail the timer or someone leaves before the dungeon is finished?

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Imo, the onus is on the keyholder. Its up to them to properly vet the ppl they are inviting. Any system that punishes the leaver, is unfair imo. If I join your group, I only know about you. I didn't invite the 3 other ppl. If the group sucks really bad, I shldnt be forced to stay in the group. It sucks for the person running their key, and its obviously not always their fault, but its not as if a ruined key is the worst thing in the game. Sets them back an additional 40 mins to level it back up.

    The system as is definitely isn't perfect. But any change I've seen suggested has been far worse and more susceptible to abuse.
    Nah dude, only leavers are bad. There has never been a situation in the entire history of the existence of WoW as a video game where a player possessed a key that was a higher level than what they were reasonably able to complete. This has never happened. Not even once. I can't believe you'd even suggest such a thing is possible. Do you know how keys work? The person with the key is a very important person. He is the most important person ever. You should ask your keyholder if they have a Patreon the next time you do a key and see if you can tip them for allowing you to join their run. You should also go to wowrep.io and make sure to rate him 5 stars before the key starts so that he can know that you approve of his existence. While you're at it, ask him if he'd mind if you named your firstborn child after him. After all, an 11 Necrotic Wake is the most important thing that's ever happened in this world. Nevermind the fact that the keyholder is 193 item level with no Legendary and bought a boost last week. That's not his fault. You're there to service the keyholder. Please, be nice to keyholders. They're important, you know.

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    What would be the harm in not having the key downgrade if you fail the timer or someone leaves before the dungeon is finished?
    Some dude who pushed in an easy week last week, having a key 4 lvls too high for him this week. No hopes of getting it done because his skill isn't high enough. And wasting everyone else's time in multiple groups for a key he can't, or refuses to downgrade.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    This. A simple Dungeon Quit Counter, or % of dungeons quit listed beside your character in a queue or listing would solve it.
    Was just about to write this. Can't remember the game but one of the oldies I played had this solution, might have been an old dota client.

    People leaving once in a while which is understandable will have like a few % while people above 10 would be kicked for being unreliable. Worked like a fkn charm in making everyone stay til the end and would be absolutely perfect for m+.

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Some dude who pushed in an easy week last week, having a key 4 lvls too high for him this week. No hopes of getting it done because his skill isn't high enough. And wasting everyone else's time in multiple groups for a key he can't, or refuses to downgrade.
    That makes no sense. If someone times a +15 easily this week, it's not their fault if the group they get next week has someone leave after one pull. There are 5 people in a group responsible for timing the key.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Nah dude, only leavers are bad. There has never been a situation in the entire history of the existence of WoW as a video game where a player possessed a key that was a higher level than what they were reasonably able to complete. This has never happened. Not even once. I can't believe you'd even suggest such a thing is possible. Do you know how keys work? The person with the key is a very important person. He is the most important person ever. You should ask your keyholder if they have a Patreon the next time you do a key and see if you can tip them for allowing you to join their run. You should also go to wowrep.io and make sure to rate him 5 stars before the key starts so that he can know that you approve of his existence. While you're at it, ask him if he'd mind if you named your firstborn child after him. After all, an 11 Necrotic Wake is the most important thing that's ever happened in this world. Nevermind the fact that the keyholder is 193 item level with no Legendary and bought a boost last week. That's not his fault. You're there to service the keyholder. Please, be nice to keyholders. They're important, you know.
    Lol. I think a lot of ppl neglect these facts.

    A short story. When my alts hit 60, I rushed the campaign and some easy honor gear. Hit ~200 ilvl. Grab a +2 key. Usually +2 or 3 it. Run the 5 key. +2 it. Run the 7 key, +2 it. Run the 9 and get the 10. Now im running a +10 at 200 ilvl (definitely doable but not stupid easy) for a dungeon I've never done on this char, possibly not even this role. Hopefully fill it with high enough rio and ilvl ppl to complete it. I could continue grinding like this for carries but until my character skill and ilvl improve, im not gonna do that to ppl. I dont want a system that traps 4 other ppl into the key with me lol

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    What would be the harm in not having the key downgrade if you fail the timer or someone leaves before the dungeon is finished?
    Having people stuck with a key difficulty level they cannot do? The -1 is not (originally) intended to punish you, just giving you something easier you can run if you fail.

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    so get your score up too...
    Having a high score has NOTHING to do with getting invited to Mythic plus groups. My warlock is 216.7 with a iO of 1990 and I still have a hard time with getting invited to groups. Sorry but getting invited to groups has EVERYTHING to do with what class you play this expansion, NOT your iO score. Bursty is in this expansion. So Mages, DH's, and Boomchicken.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrif View Post
    Was just about to write this. Can't remember the game but one of the oldies I played had this solution, might have been an old dota client.

    People leaving once in a while which is understandable will have like a few % while people above 10 would be kicked for being unreliable. Worked like a fkn charm in making everyone stay til the end and would be absolutely perfect for m+.
    This works in a game with MMR where you can be reasonably certain the people in your group have a similar skill level. M+ has no such thing outside of R.IO score (which is unreliable anyway). Players leaving keys aren't that big of a deal. These kinds of solutions give way too much power to keyholders and will overall make the experience of M+ significantly worse. And that's before you end up with Blizzard now being liable to field innumerable complaint tickets about how their "leave" wasn't legitimate and they totally have a valid reason for them to erase it from their profile.

    This isn't happening.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2021-04-12 at 04:19 PM.

  17. #677
    The point is you don't fail because you are bad, but because some idiot won't even try after one mistake.

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    That makes no sense. If someone times a +15 easily this week, it's not their fault if the group they get next week has someone leave after one pull. There are 5 people in a group responsible for timing the key.
    If I push a mists during easy affix week, and next week I get an SD key on the hardest affix week, it doesn't mean I can complete it at that level. Some weeks much harder than other, some dungeons much harder than others.

    It sucks that someone left after early wipe, bit thats 10 minutes, plus 50 more to run key back up. So back to where u started in an hour. Sucks u wasted an hour, but thats video games. Next time vet ppl harder, or deal with the occasional shittu situation.

    How often are ppl actually leaving your keys that its a major problem?

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    This works in a game with MMR where you can reasonably certain the people in your group have a similar skill level. M+ has no such thing outside of R.IO score (which is unreliable anyway). Players leaving keys aren't that big of a deal. These kinds of solutions give way too much power to keyholders and will overall make the experience of M+ significantly worse. And that's before you end up with Blizzard now being liable to field innumerable complaint tickets about how their "leave" wasn't legitimate and they totally have a valid reason for them to erase it from their profile.

    This isn't happening.
    How would M+ be worse if more keys got finished instead of disbanding?

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    How would M+ be worse if more keys got finished instead of disbanding?
    Because you'd be forced to stay in miserable keys that have absolutely no hope of being completed.

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