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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    If I push a mists during easy affix week, and next week I get an SD key on the hardest affix week, it doesn't mean I can complete it at that level. Some weeks much harder than other, some dungeons much harder than others.

    It sucks that someone left after early wipe, bit thats 10 minutes, plus 50 more to run key back up. So back to where u started in an hour. Sucks u wasted an hour, but thats video games. Next time vet ppl harder, or deal with the occasional shittu situation.

    How often are ppl actually leaving your keys that its a major problem?
    I don't do that much m+ (because I don't enough time without interruptions at home, which would make me leave keys) but I have had it happen many times. I do watch quite a bit of pug m+ streaming where it's like 80% of keys sometimes that disband like this.

  2. #682
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    I don't do that much m+ (because I don't enough time without interruptions at home, which would make me leave keys) but I have had it happen many times. I do watch quite a bit of pug m+ streaming where it's like 80% of keys sometimes that disband like this.
    It is not a usual enough problem. Are the streamers you watching +16 and above? Cause ppl literally only do those to push rio. And usually 1 wipe is enough to un time it. Its an unwritten rule that you can go ahead and disband at that point unless ur right at the very end

  3. #683
    They just need to add a surrender vote and if you leave before the surrender vote that can be detected via addons. Then Raider.io can take leavers into account and you'll know in advance if someone is a chronic bailer.

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    They just need to add a surrender vote and if you leave before the surrender vote that can be detected via addons. Then Raider.io can take leavers into account and you'll know in advance if someone is a chronic bailer.
    Yeah, that's what this game needs: Some douche spamming the Surrender button because he doesn't like a route and has some kind of personality disagreement with somebody in the group 2 minutes in.

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Because you'd be forced to stay in miserable keys that have absolutely no hope of being completed.
    So make a disband option, if 3 people in the group agrees to call it, no leaver marks are recorded.

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    They just need to add a surrender vote and if you leave before the surrender vote that can be detected via addons. Then Raider.io can take leavers into account and you'll know in advance if someone is a chronic bailer.
    I posted my run about yesterday. 5 attempts on 2nd boss of NW. Used up all the spears, even tried wuth lust twice. I was the lone solo in a group of 4 friends. If they wanted to keep trying for 2 more hours, should I be required to stay because my surrender vote would never pass?

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You won’t stop mythic quitters until the punishment is more severe.

    Make it so when you quit, you can’t queue up for a m+ for another day. If you quit again within a month, a week. If you quit a third time, you can’t join a m+ for a month

    Right now, you can just quit and wait it out without any repercussions and people jump on that.

    Blizzard could solve this overnight but they can’t do it without being heavy handed and setting some examples out of some people
    Have you ever worked on KSM?

    You run any key until get a +16 of a dungeon you don't already timed +15. You run that +16 for excercise and if you don't time it abort at end boss to immediately go in +15 again with a higher chance to actually time it. Rinse and repeat.

    Do you volunteer to get your proposed punishment for aborting your training runs? Also: do you volunteer to take the punishment when downgrading your high key to carry your friends Alts through a +14 for chest?

    You simply can not dish out automatic punishments for manual groups.

  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrif View Post
    So make a disband option, if 3 people in the group agrees to call it, no leaver marks are recorded.
    Again, you're giving way too much power to premades. People could effective hold a group hostage. Again, why force Blizzard to intervene on a purely social problem?

  9. #689
    Maybe everyone should just adopt this every man for himself attitude in M+ and not give a F* about the experience of other players. MMO's didn't always work like that. People chose to overcome challenges together even in pugs instead of just quitting.

  10. #690
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    This. A simple Dungeon Quit Counter, or % of dungeons quit listed beside your character in a queue or listing would solve it.
    That doesn't stop people from just going afk.
    And it also adds in that people can start dungeons and then kick you from them to ruin your character stats

  11. #691
    Pandaren Monk Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    Having a high score has NOTHING to do with getting invited to Mythic plus groups. My warlock is 216.7 with a iO of 1990 and I still have a hard time with getting invited to groups. Sorry but getting invited to groups has EVERYTHING to do with what class you play this expansion, NOT your iO score. Bursty is in this expansion. So Mages, DH's, and Boomchicken.
    yet i have no problems getting invites... playing retri, frost dk or bm hunter alts... no problems getting invites as shadow either if i am doing my weekly keys...

  12. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrif View Post
    So make a disband option, if 3 people in the group agrees to call it, no leaver marks are recorded.
    3man group invites 2 pugs / joins another key.
    They all go afk.

    What do then?

    It's a social problem, it won't be solved with overly complicated systems

  13. #693
    It should just track unfinished keys. People who don't leave won't get a significant amount of them, people who quit easily and often get a lot. If a group kicks you they all get the same record of not finishing it.

  14. #694
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    yet i have no problems getting invites... playing retri, frost dk or bm hunter alts... no problems getting invites as shadow either if i am doing my weekly keys...
    They can't see if you're frost or unholy, or if you're BM or MM. Unholy and MM are good, stable meta picks. And Shadow is definitely meta now.

    Depending on the dungeons you're signing up for on the paladin it makes sense, since rets tend to be venthyr, they're inviting you for dungeon buffs

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Again, you're giving way too much power to premades. People could effective hold a group hostage. Again, why force Blizzard to intervene on a purely social problem?
    How would they hold them hostage? If a majority of the group believes the key still is worth trying for, then that is the decent thing to do whether you personally believe it or not.

    Could you elaborate and give some examples?

  16. #696
    This "social problem" thing is funny. There are tons of social problems Blizzard has implemented systems to fight against. Why couldn't they do something about this one?

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    Maybe everyone should just adopt this every man for himself attitude in M+ and not give a F* about the experience of other players. MMO's didn't always work like that. People chose to overcome challenges together even in pugs instead of just quitting.
    You'll find that 90% of pug runs are like this. Especially at higher levels. You join group, you say hi. You eat your food buff, pop a flask. Route gets linked. Ready check goes out. 10 sec countdown. Run starts and you go thru it. If everyone is good enough to be there, it super smooth and you say ty for group at end. Maybe 1 or 2 ppl die throughout run and its no problem. Maybe its a really hard pack and you get a pat, or something fuvks up and you wipe. Ppl run back and you continue. Rarely you'll get 1 person that drops group if he thinks the run is worthless but its not usual at all. What usually happens when groups disband is a healer that can't keep ppl up, dps that aren't interrupting or doing decent damage, or a tank pulling weirdly. Leads to multiple wipes and ppl get mad. Then they leave

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrif View Post
    How would they hold them hostage? If a majority of the group believes the key still is worth trying for, then that is the decent thing to do whether you personally believe it or not.

    Could you elaborate and give some examples?
    My NW run yesterday. Im solo dps in a 4 man group of friends. 5 wipes on same boss. No improvement whatsoever with each attempt. Why should I stay jist cause they want to continue?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    It should just track unfinished keys. People who don't leave won't get a significant amount of them, people who quit easily and often get a lot. If a group kicks you they all get the same record of not finishing it.
    So instead of 1 player getting mad and leaving, "punishing" the key holder, it'll be 1 player leaving and all 5 get an unfinished key mark on their record?

  18. #698
    Pandaren Monk Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    They can't see if you're frost or unholy, or if you're BM or MM. Unholy and MM are good, stable meta picks. And Shadow is definitely meta now.

    Depending on the dungeons you're signing up for on the paladin it makes sense, since rets tend to be venthyr, they're inviting you for dungeon buffs
    i'm kyrian on my paladin because i mainly play holy on it... they can also inspect my characters after they invite...
    Last edited by Sugarcube; 2021-04-12 at 04:51 PM.

  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post


    My NW run yesterday. Im solo dps in a 4 man group of friends. 5 wipes on same boss. No improvement whatsoever with each attempt. Why should I stay jist cause they want to continue?
    I think this stems from the idea that if you sign up for a dungeon you sign up to finish it and not quit half way. I get leaving in a situation like that where it really is hopeless. I don't think many people disagree about that. I wouldn't even mind the leaving part if the keyholder wasn't punished for it while the one who leaves doesn't suffer any consequences.

    I agree that punishing the leaver isn't really feasible (except for that tracking unfinished runs thing), but either just getting rid of keystones alltogether in favor of an unlockable (complete +14 timed to unlock +15) difficulty slider or not having to downgrade your key if you get an idiot ruining your run. I would like to hear counter arguments against this (other than not wanting "unfit" people having too high keys)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    So instead of 1 player getting mad and leaving, "punishing" the key holder, it'll be 1 player leaving and all 5 get an unfinished key mark on their record?
    This isn't a problem for people who don't leave keys, they will only have a few unfinished ones, but the ones leaving will have 100's.

  20. #700
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Because you'd be forced to stay in miserable keys that have absolutely no hope of being completed.
    But there’s not only “timed” or “failed by 30 mins”.

    As I said before or in another thread maybe, 75% of my non timed runs are par + max 10 minutes and 90% of those 75% are par + max 5 minutes.

    I’m against punishment for leavers because it would affect even legit leavers, but the scenario “jizuz I’m stuck into an endless 90 minutes dungeon” is not THAT usual.

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