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  1. #41
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    your specific leaver is an entirely different category though, that's just someone whos not having fun, bit off more than he could chew, was having a bad day or something like that. that's just something that's gonna happen once in a blue moon. and you can either accept that it happens once in a while or become someone who doesn't take a chance on people anymore and only invites overqualified people..

    This. Shit happens. Move on.

  2. #42
    Don't PUG M+. That's the solution. You prevent "leavers" by running, as intended, with people you know. And if you're running with friends, actual friends, even "leavers" are either tolerable or discouraged by social ties.

    And to be frank, you're not casual if you're running M+, nevermind +10.

    No content avenue curated by players is casual. Casual is "I made the ilvl, I can queue and be guaranteed a group, because the game says I can."

    The moment other players determining their own expectations are gating your play, you've left the casual lane by the only metric that matters.

  3. #43
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    Don't PUG M+. That's the solution. You prevent "leavers" by running, as intended, with people you know. And if you're running with friends, actual friends, even "leavers" are either tolerable or discouraged by social ties.

    And to be frank, you're not casual if you're running M+, nevermind +10.

    No content avenue curated by players is casual. Casual is "I made the ilvl, I can queue and be guaranteed a group, because the game says I can."

    The moment other players determining their own expectations are gating your play, you've left the casual lane by the only metric that matters.
    I am casual because I can't raid mythic anymore and have a very limited time to play and in that limited time I wanted to enjoy it to the fullest by doing the maximum contents I do in that limited time. I hope I made myself clear I guess?

    I usually don't pug and I hate pugging tbh but sometimes I am forced to pug one or two players because of the time limitation issues.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    I am casual because I can't raid mythic anymore and have a very limited time to play and in that limited time I wanted to enjoy it to the fullest by doing the maximum contents I do in that limited time. I hope I made myself clear I guess?

    I usually don't pug and I hate pugging tbh but sometimes I am forced to pug one or two players because of the time limitation issues.
    It sounds like your life has drifted away from a viable path to M+-as-intended. Heroic dungeons exist, and sound like a better fit, but if you do modes outside the intended experience, no one is responsible for the outcome but you. Good luck.

  5. #45
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    It sounds like your live has drifted away from a viable path to M+-as-intended. Heroic dungeons exist, and sound like a better fit, but if you do modes outside the intended experience, no one is responsible for the outcome but you. Good luck.
    You misunderstand me really. I said time limitation (because of my real life work) is the only issues preventing me from doing mythic raiding it is not energy. Not to offend anyone here but let us be honest here heroic 5 man dungeons are just faceroll and I don't enjoy doing faceroll contents. There is a reason why I enjoy playing games like Sekiro and Cuphead, and old ninja gaiden really.

  6. #46
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I mentioned briefly in my first post, but I highly recommend pulling PuGs from something like the Mythic Plus Friends discord community or one of the other groups, rather than the in-game group tool in the occasional instance you need to. It's a little easier to have a conversation there and get on the same page, because a significant portion of leaver situations are just created by mismatched expectations. Any PuG is a gamble but people often don't read the descriptions in the in-game tool, and you don't have an easy way to see more than summary of their experience unless you actually tab out and research full history.

    I think also being in those communities creates a pool of people who enjoy keys and want to do keys, and has fewer people that just do one key a week and haven't necessarily seen dungeon mechanics very much (which sounds like it might have been the case for your warlock). Some of them also have some kind of social/reputation reinforcement (such as a blackslist channel to call out people like this) to encourage cooperative gameplay.

    It's also a good way to make more people playing in your key range so when it comes time to make a group, you might find you have enough people on your friends list that PuGing a few slots becomes less and less frequent.

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  7. #47
    As an ex-Mythic raider in pretty much an identical situation as you, I understand where you're coming from... the problem is that solutions which punish many for the actions of a few are rarely the right way to go about things. It sucks when you get a scuffed key (especially when your time to play is limited), but I have to echo a lot of the advice already provided in this thread: Either vet your applicants more thoroughly or chalk it up to bad luck. There's no "fix" to this particular issue that can't be abused by people.

  8. #48
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    As an ex-Mythic raider in pretty much an identical situation as you, I understand where you're coming from... the problem is that solutions which punish many for the actions of a few are rarely the right way to go about things. It sucks when you get a scuffed key (especially when your time to play is limited), but I have to echo a lot of the advice already provided in this thread: Either vet your applicants more thoroughly or chalk it up to bad luck. There's no "fix" to this particular issue that can't be abused by people.
    I totally agree with you and having ID from Xenogears as an avatar /respect my friend!

  9. #49
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I mentioned briefly in my first post, but I highly recommend pulling PuGs from something like the Mythic Plus Friends discord community or one of the other groups, rather than the in-game group tool in the occasional instance you need to. It's a little easier to have a conversation there and get on the same page, because a significant portion of leaver situations are just created by mismatched expectations. Any PuG is a gamble but people often don't read the descriptions in the in-game tool, and you don't have an easy way to see more than summary of their experience unless you actually tab out and research full history.
    Aside from this, consider building a list of people whom you can friend and pull from. There's an intermediate place from full guild group to random pug and IMO it's building a list of people with whom you've run and grabbing them. If your time is limited but can be scheduled, let them know that ("I can run Thursday evening server time or Saturday" etc).

    But if you're going to have to occasionally pull a random in, this has some percentage chance of happening. Let it slide off you and move on.

  10. #50
    Stood in the Fire Helander's Avatar
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    We used to have leaver penalties, then Activision Blizzard happened, they fired all the humans and started using automation. Since they fired all the humans they had no one to review reports and abandoned the system.


    If Activision Blizzard wasn't literally an evil corporation run by shit brains who care about bonus checks we wouldn't have this problem.

  11. #51
    Pandaren Monk Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    We did plaguefall dungeon we reached the first boss then the warlock decided no to dodge the basic simple breath cone of the boss and died. First time he apologized then we wiped, I didn't say anything then it happens three times the same issue. Then he said "fk this" then left.... I mean the key was already ruined since we wiped three times because of him....so why the dick move and leaving like that is just beyond me....
    ...
    There has to be a solution for players like that who are purposely ruining other players keys...
    Make the Blizzard API track the first person who leaves a M+ key and where they leave to provide addons like RaiderIO the ability to notify users of potential leavers (i.e.: if player X is always first to leave their groups before they are complete, they can be flagged by the addon as a leaver). In this case, there would be no need to have Blizzard do some kind of automated enforcement, as they would have a permanent stain on their record for how they behave in groups that could be handled by players (i.e.: if they're a leaver, they won't be invited to any groups).
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Make the Blizzard API track the first person who leaves a M+ key and where they leave to provide addons like RaiderIO the ability to notify users of potential leavers (i.e.: if player X is always first to leave their groups before they are complete, they can be flagged by the addon as a leaver). In this case, there would be no need to have Blizzard do some kind of automated enforcement, as they would have a permanent stain on their record for how they behave in groups that could be handled by players (i.e.: if they're a leaver, they won't be invited to any groups).
    AFAIK there isn't any way to track who leaves a M+ first with Blizzard's API. Even if it could, it can lead to "stand-off" situations where a certain segment of players in a group will do whatever they can in their power to make a player leave a group "first," so they don't have to feel compelled to finish a key that will be miserable for all parties involved.

    edit: misread your post
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2021-01-02 at 09:35 PM. Reason: misread

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    The funny thing is before even pugging that guy I had a feeling that something like that might happen which is why in the description of the premade system of WoW I wrote M+10 please no leavers...but yeah..

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah man tell me about it...I really really hate pugs tbh but god damn sometimes I have no choice really.. I remember sometimes I have to buy a boost ingame (using ingame money gold not real money) not because of me being uncompetant (I am far from being the best player ever but I carry my weight) but just so I can complete the content I am doing without any issues...
    I used to do this sometimes. Sell a leggo and buy a run of my choice. I used to call it a "M+ vacation."

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Helander View Post
    We used to have leaver penalties, then Activision Blizzard happened, they fired all the humans and started using automation. Since they fired all the humans they had no one to review reports and abandoned the system.


    If Activision Blizzard wasn't literally an evil corporation run by shit brains who care about bonus checks we wouldn't have this problem.
    What the fuck are you talking about?...

    On topic:
    - if this is happening every time you pug a player maybe start to think if your group is hostile to guests
    - if this happened just one time maybe get over it, shit happens

    There is no sensible way to deal out automatic penalties to manual groups anyway. And having every complaint looked at in a timely manner by a human referee, not gonna happen either.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    It sounds like your life has drifted away from a viable path to M+-as-intended. Heroic dungeons exist, and sound like a better fit, but if you do modes outside the intended experience, no one is responsible for the outcome but you. Good luck.
    Intended experience is including PUGs. Blizzard designed the dungeon finder tool to find random people. Playing with strangers is as intended as playing with friends. If not, explain to me why they made UI and tools specifically to find strangers.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    Intended experience is including PUGs. Blizzard designed the dungeon finder tool to find random people. Playing with strangers is as intended as playing with friends. If not, explain to me why they made UI and tools specifically to find strangers.
    Maybe the downsides of playing with strangers (aka the possibility of meeting dickheads or bad players) are also intended.

    The tool is in no way ment to find you the perfect group with only the best strangers that do exactly what you want and play the game exactly how you play the game.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by willemh View Post
    Maybe the downsides of playing with strangers (aka the possibility of meeting dickheads or bad players) are also intended.

    The tool is in no way ment to find you the perfect group with only the best strangers that do exactly what you want and play the game exactly how you play the game.
    This is exactly why Blizzard has a policy of complete ambivalence towards people leaving runs.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by willemh View Post
    Maybe the downsides of playing with strangers (aka the possibility of meeting dickheads or bad players) are also intended.

    The tool is in no way ment to find you the perfect group with only the best strangers that do exactly what you want and play the game exactly how you play the game.
    You don't need a perfect group to clear M+, including M+10, at all. An average performance, like 70% of your characters potential power is enough. That's why we have boosts and carries. Someone will play at 90-95% so someone with 50% can be carried, etc. Very basic to understand, of course.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Raider IO just shows what people completed.

    What we need is like Yelp reviews for players.
    "He knew all the tactics, he was top dps, but I didn't really like his transmog. One star!"

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Varjo410 View Post
    "He knew all the tactics, he was top dps, but I didn't really like his transmog. One star!"
    Knowing this community, these reviews would be far more racist and far less informative.

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