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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Clearly the surrender button can be disabled until 15 minutes into the dungeon and it can go on cooldown for 5m * 2^(surrender attempts) after a failed vote.

    So they can push it after 15m, then push it after 20m, then push it after 30m, then push it after 50m, etc.

    Realistically, the dungeon auto surrenders at timer + 15m.
    Or, get this... you don't need to a surrender a fucking dungeon. Just leave.

  2. #782
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Or, get this... you don't need to a surrender a fucking dungeon. Just leave.
    I just dont get why ppl want to force someone who doesn't want to be there, to stay in group with them. That's never gonna go well. Sucks their key drops a level and an hour wasted, but I don't think the key is gonna magically complete because a leaver now can't leave

  3. #783
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I just dont get why ppl want to force someone who doesn't want to be there, to stay in group with them. That's never gonna go well. Sucks their key drops a level and an hour wasted, but I don't think the key is gonna magically complete because a leaver now can't leave
    People don't want to admit that they might be part of the reason the group failed (or is failing) and would rather not only blame everybody else but also force them to stay even if they're playing like shit.

  4. #784
    Just either complete the dungeon or cancel the attempt with a 100% agreement. The first person that leaves a m+ without one or the other gets a debuff that is higher the more often you leave an m+. I don't think this is unreasonable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I just dont get why ppl want to force someone who doesn't want to be there, to stay in group with them. That's never gonna go well. Sucks their key drops a level and an hour wasted, but I don't think the key is gonna magically complete because a leaver now can't leave
    It's just to prevent people from joining unless they are 100% into it. That in itself should probably detract a majority of leavers from even joining.

  5. #785
    The easiest solution is to friend pugs you know with realid's or join a community that is for M+ key running. Lastly and this is a big one, make sure your comp for running the key makes sense. Example, on a sanguine week you probably want more ranged than melee as the Sanguine on the ground can be difficult to see for melee. Another example is this last week with the orbs, not having a ranged tab targeter like a shadow priest, Hunter, Boomkin can really defeat a key and thus you should plan for the affixes.

  6. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Just either complete the dungeon or cancel the attempt with a 100% agreement. The first person that leaves a m+ without one or the other gets a debuff that is higher the more often you leave an m+. I don't think this is unreasonable.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's just to prevent people from joining unless they are 100% into it. That in itself should probably detract a majority of leavers from even joining.
    Hello? Are you new to the internet? People will hold your group hostage. Unless you think asking people to pinky promise not to leave before the key starts is an effective way to get people to be honest.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Just either complete the dungeon or cancel the attempt with a 100% agreement. The first person that leaves a m+ without one or the other gets a debuff that is higher the more often you leave an m+. I don't think this is unreasonable.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's just to prevent people from joining unless they are 100% into it. That in itself should probably detract a majority of leavers from even joining.
    And if I stay afk in the instance? Maybe pulling extra mobs to avoid any afk check. Some salty fuckin leavers 100% would abuse this system to the point that its punishing the ppl its intended to protect. Tired of dealing with me, the guy who's asking but refusing to drop group, so you leave first and now you have the debuff

  8. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    You can easy use WCL in m+, not for ranking, but for combat analysis.
    Yes exactly, what I said one comment earlier.

  9. #789
    Epic! Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Just either complete the dungeon or cancel the attempt with a 100% agreement. The first person that leaves a m+ without one or the other gets a debuff that is higher the more often you leave an m+. I don't think this is unreasonable.
    That's a tough sell. For instance, the group might be fine taking over 1 hour to complete the dungeon but 1 player may not want to spend that amount of time and it wasn't agreed upon before the start of the run. So now that 1 player has to held hostage for 1 hour to complete the dungeon? Or take the debuff to leave first?

    Or does that cause the 1 player to adopt a "leave but not really leave" attitude? Like purposely screw up so much that the rest of the group then shifts to agreement to cancel the run? Because damned if the 1 player has to take the debuff hit instead of the their perception that someone else in the group should take the debuff.
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  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    what the fuck was it i posted in the start? i am not changing any goalposts... i pointed out that people are taking excessive amounts of damage and you started going on about how hps doesn't matter in wcl... it fucking matters in a run, stop taking so much avoidable damage if you want to progress in m+... a healer having to do 6k hps is doing pretty much zero dps... that's time they could spend dpsing instead...
    And again, max 3k hps is just a random number. It depends on the pull size. This is simply true, doesn't matter how many dots you type.

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    And again, max 3k hps is just a random number. It depends on the pull size. This is simply true, doesn't matter how many dots you type.
    pugs don't do big pulls generally... they do 1 pack at a time... trying to pull big in pugs just result in wipes... and even then, i've done +18 and never had to do 6k hps in it to get through the instance... 4.5k hps is the max i have had to do in +18...

  12. #792
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    This is just a random idea, but what if there were trash mobs before the pedestal where you put the M+ key that had some modest mechanics to them? Basically if in combat you see that the group is going to fail because people aren't interrupting, standing in fire, doing low DPS, letting someone die etc, you can just leave before you actually use anyone's key.

    It wouldn't fix leavers, but at least then the leavers could see that the group is bad before wasting anyone's key, and they could, well, leave.

    IDK about the tuning etc or fight length - how do you have this "group tester" be good for a +2 or a +15 without making the mobs overtuned for the people wanting to do a +2 or undertuned for those wanting to do a +15? Maybe there could be three different routes depending on key level - one that tests for a +2 to a +7 at a +4 level roughly, one that tests for a +7 to a +10 (includes a preview of the seasonal affix) at a +8 level roughly and one that tests for a +10 to +15 at a +13 level roughly. Maybe intended to last 3 minutes at most.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, I give up. This is pointless.
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  13. #793
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Just either complete the dungeon or cancel the attempt with a 100% agreement. The first person that leaves a m+ without one or the other gets a debuff that is higher the more often you leave an m+. I don't think this is unreasonable.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's just to prevent people from joining unless they are 100% into it. That in itself should probably detract a majority of leavers from even joining.

    This would open up juicy opportunities for toxic people to just ruin people's time even more. Vote-cancel? Nah, I'll vote no and start just pissing about until someone from the group quits first. Which frankly I'd rather do and take some deserter debuff for myself, log out and do something else, than wait for the asshat to finish his idiocy.

    Does ignoring block the visibility in the group finder? If yes, that's likely the best solution. Unless there's an addon to blacklist people.

  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Take 3rd SD boss for example: you eat balls but damage is huge anyways. You then start healing but after few seconds you have to start dodging bad stuff on ground and cannot heal. Then you continue healing but before you can full ppl another balls eating phase begins. People take even more damage because they are not full, you start healing again but you have again to start dodging ground stuff... after the third balls cycle either the boss is dead or it’s a wipe. This is stupid design imho.
    How many balls you eat? Usually if the tank aint stupid, he/she wont pick any orb and everyone else can pick 4 and the damage is low. Depends which class you are, you can always use small def cd every 2nd aoe. What we usually like to do is that I as a tank never pick up orbs, and the first aoe is healer and 1 ranged self cd, 2nd is other 2 dps self cd and just rotate til the end. So far, 3rd boss has not been an issue for us during tyr. You do understand that you can write out/speak out the def cd rota and how you want them right? Even in pugs, you can just type out "3rd boss first aoe you and you use cd, 2nd me and him, repeat." Healing 2 targets is easier than healing 4 all the time imo.
    This is just a personal experience and not meant as a flame, just trying to give helpful tip.

  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by ifrah View Post
    This would open up juicy opportunities for toxic people to just ruin people's time even more. Vote-cancel? Nah, I'll vote no and start just pissing about until someone from the group quits first. Which frankly I'd rather do and take some deserter debuff for myself, log out and do something else, than wait for the asshat to finish his idiocy.

    Does ignoring block the visibility in the group finder? If yes, that's likely the best solution. Unless there's an addon to blacklist people.
    Ah yes. I forgot to add that you could also get kicked from the party for being shit, with 4 votes. That would mark the dungeon as finished and mark you as desertor. But yeah, 4 friends would vote on the Pugged guy whenever they got bored or wanted to end it coz of time etc. Indeed it gets messy soon, trying to find solutions XD

  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Ah yes. I forgot to add that you could also get kicked from the party for being shit, with 4 votes. That would mark the dungeon as finished and mark you as desertor. But yeah, 4 friends would vote on the Pugged guy whenever they got bored or wanted to end it coz of time etc. Indeed it gets messy soon, trying to find solutions XD
    There aren't solutions. Why bother trying to create solutions to a problem that isn't a problem? You're just asking Blizzard to intervene where they shouldn't because you feel entitled to an experience that is no way guaranteed by the game itself. If M+ had a legitimate MMR system and you were actively punished by failing a key, I'd fully support the systems required to keep players in a group. But right now we only have R.IO and that isn't even a rating system so much as it a numerical representation of information already readily available on your character's Armory page; until Blizzard gets more "serious" about the nature of M+ I don't see them fixing this particular issue.

  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomR View Post
    Ah yes. I forgot to add that you could also get kicked from the party for being shit, with 4 votes. That would mark the dungeon as finished and mark you as desertor. But yeah, 4 friends would vote on the Pugged guy whenever they got bored or wanted to end it coz of time etc. Indeed it gets messy soon, trying to find solutions XD
    Yep, the flaw of the majority voting system got listed there. It's infinitely times better to have a risk of an idiot in the group, possibly leading to premature disbanding, than having even the smallest risk of getting griefed by 3-4ppl votekick groups.
    I still think the issue is way smaller than many people here (not pointed to you) make it. It does exist, but what do people expect when doing anything with random strangers?

  18. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by ifrah View Post
    ...what do people expect when doing anything with random strangers?
    The people who seem most entitled to not having their key depleted are the ones who are most likely to deplete their keys. Funny how that works... :-/

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Hello? Are you new to the internet? People will hold your group hostage. Unless you think asking people to pinky promise not to leave before the key starts is an effective way to get people to be honest.
    Which is exactly why I specified a time limit, of, at least 15 minutes if people agree the dungeon is at a loss and at most timer + 15 minutes.

    The system isn't forcing you to stay regardless. You can still quit, r.io will just log that you disconnected/quit/etc. No different than any other multiplayer game that keeps track of leavers.

    The only purpose of the surrender vote is that it signifies that the group agreed to quit the key versus you individually leaving.
    Last edited by SteveZaer; 2021-04-22 at 08:41 AM.

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Which is exactly why I specified a time limit, of, at least 15 minutes if people agree the dungeon is at a loss and at most timer + 15 minutes.

    The system isn't forcing you to stay regardless. You can still quit, r.io will just log that you disconnected/quit/etc. No different than any other multiplayer game that keeps track of leavers.

    The only purpose of the surrender vote is that it signifies that the group agreed to quit the key versus you individually leaving.
    Dungeons can't "win." The entire idea of surrendering a dungeon is ridiculous. This isn't League of Legends, knock it off.

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