Solution for M+ leavers....

[callipygoustp]

Seriously: what the fuck are people doing where "leavers" are enough of an issue that people are coming with a myriad of ridiculous "solutions". I certainly run into a leaver or toxic player here and there but not nearly enough that I want some wack-a-do system put into place to combat it.

Learn to use raider.io more effectively. That's the solution for people who are frequently running into "leavers".

[GnomeEU]

I don't see what you will gain by forcing players into a run they don't see as doable anymore. Wipe 3 times. Key won't get finsihed. Why bother doing it at all?

I get if it is only to get a weekly chest. But you can write that when you queue the key and only people who don't care about timing will queue for it.

Otherwise? You will just create people who will NOT leave for fear of repercussions but instead play just bad enough so blizz cannot reprimand them for throwing but not good enough that anyone will have fun or you will be able to finsih the key.

Mythic+ keys are not build so you can finish every single one. ESPECIALLY in pugs where you don't even get a training effect with your team as you will never play with these people again.

There are very rare cases where runs won't get completed at all. And 90% of all leavers left when runs either were still in time or it would be a few minutes over.

Leavers are cancer. Just because you won't get your 10 points score or whatever doesn't mean that you won't ruin the weekly vault for 4 other players.

You're not alone in the world.
You waste my time if you leave.

Most of those leavers are little spoiled children that don't think about anyone but themselves.

It would be cool if Blizzard would add npcs to the run and reduce the loot if ppl left. So the run won't be completely ruined for everyone.

[erifwodahs]

If you leave the dungeon you lose half of your rating. If you get removed from the group nothing happens.

I mean you must see a major flaw with this.
Penalized for being dickwads but then if u get kicked you don't get penalized. xD Oh boy this would generate drama bigger than introduction of LFR.

You can't police m+ leavers without punishing everyone else and leavers are very rare in successful keys. I only had one in 130+ runs.

[Tziva]

90% of all leavers left when runs either were still in time or it would be a few minutes over.

Citation needed for sure on this claim. I don't know how anyone could even pretend to have data for this.

I have had surprisingly few leavers lately but almost always for me they've been after multiple wipes when it's become very clear it's going to be a long, arduous run. I've definitely had a few assholes who leave after a singular wipe or bad pull when the dungeon is still 100% timeable, but those are very rare in my experience. Keys that literally aren't finishable are also very rare in my experience too (although probably because I try to be somewhat choosey with what groups I pick), but I would be very surprised if even the small majority of leavers were in keys that were still timeable or close, much less 90%.

[ohwell]

How many games with a "surrender" type option have you seen people who have determined they are going to lose just stop participating and demand everyone use it? Even in WoW BGs where there is literally no penalty for failure and you still get a small reward for a loss, half the team will just demand people "lose quick" and stop playing so they can get out and get into the next game. It sucks for people who are there to play rather than just grind honour. It's incredibly naive to think it won't happen in keys when they aren't going well. People will hold the group hostage with inactivity or griefing until the others confirm the surrender. I'm not sure how that is an improvement on the current situation where people just leave and those there for completion still are stuck starting over from scratch.

I get that people don't like their time wasted by leavers killing a key but most of these proposed fixes wouldn't improving things and in some cases would make everything work.

Pretty sure griefing is a punishable offense.....

[Tziva]

Pretty sure griefing is a punishable offense.....

That doesn't really stop it from happening.

It's also not something that is handled by an automated system. There's no reason leavers couldn't be handled the same way griefers are now.

[erifwodahs]

There are very rare cases where runs won't get completed at all. And 90% of all leavers left when runs either were still in time or it would be a few minutes over.

Leavers are cancer. Just because you won't get your 10 points score or whatever doesn't mean that you won't ruin the weekly vault for 4 other players.

You're not alone in the world.
You waste my time if you leave.

Most of those leavers are little spoiled children that don't think about anyone but themselves.

It would be cool if Blizzard would add npcs to the run and reduce the loot if ppl left. So the run won't be completely ruined for everyone.

What about people who push the score? Are they cancer?
What about people who advertise "quick weekly" then invite their friend who does tank dps?
Also it's pugs, you choose who you join and who you accept. Should people be punished for leaving pug raids now?

People just don't realise that they would just kill pugging and the ones who would still be pugging would be 10 times more strict.

[scientific]

There are people who freak out over everything but i'm sorry to many people come to these forums and will completely gloss over l the actions of the party that made the person leave.

[Grimlokh]

Seriously: what the fuck are people doing where "leavers" are enough of an issue that people are coming with a myriad of ridiculous "solutions". I certainly run into a leaver or toxic player here and there but not nearly enough that I want some wack-a-do system put into place to combat it.

Learn to use raider.io more effectively. That's the solution for people who are frequently running into "leavers".

So..we are doing +18´s and I ask for a group with 1600+ R.io score, DH appears, we pull some adds, fire mage does 4.3k in first pull, DH leaves. Yeah that is my bad for not "using raider.io effectively". The fact that this not happened to you, or not nearly as often as some of us (kudos) does not mean it does not happen frequently. Toxic players should be dealt with, not tolerate them. And its certainly much worse than before. And not just wow.

[ohwell]

That doesn't really stop it from happening.

It's also not something that is handled by an automated system. There's no reason leavers couldn't be handled the same way griefers are now.

They don't consider it griefing at the moment and neither do I as people don't leave simply to harm others which is what griefing is. Rage quitting, however, is a form of griefing. Now if they come out tonight and say that they do feel it is, then so be it I'll report people. Then again I constantly report people for advertisement in group finder and nothing happens.

[callipygoustp]

So..we are doing +18´s and I ask for a group with 1600+ R.io score, DH appears, we pull some adds, fire mage does 4.3k in first pull, DH leaves. Yeah that is my bad for not "using raider.io effectively". The fact that this not happened to you, or not nearly as often as some of us (kudos) does not mean it does not happen frequently. Toxic players should be dealt with, not tolerate them. And its certainly much worse than before. And not just wow.

One specific scenario does not in any way shape or form change what I said.

If you are regularly running into leavers, I repeat:

Learn to use raider.io more effectively. That's the solution for people who are frequently running into "leavers".

[faunski]

One specific scenario does not in any way shape or form change what I said.

If you are regularly running into leavers, I repeat:

In your opinion what would be the cues to spot out a leaver in a rio profile?

[Aphrel]

Punishments will only become abused in wichever direction they can. If the leaver gets a penatly ppl will just go afk and not leave holding the other effectively hostage.
And if a votekick system is implemented ppl will grief by using that for the wrong purpuses, giving deserter debuffs to player who doesnt deserve it.

The best solution is to simply remove the restriction of not being able to invite a new player. So if someone leaves, the group can just find a new player and keep going.

And be4 someone says "but what about the 1/10000 players that will abuse it for world 1st ranks" with the new blizzard ingame score it would be quite easy to design it so t you cant up your score if youve swapped out players. So no top 0,1% abuse possible there either.

[Naville]

So..we are doing +18´s and I ask for a group with 1600+ R.io score, DH appears, we pull some adds, fire mage does 4.3k in first pull, DH leaves. Yeah that is my bad for not "using raider.io effectively". The fact that this not happened to you, or not nearly as often as some of us (kudos) does not mean it does not happen frequently. Toxic players should be dealt with, not tolerate them. And its certainly much worse than before. And not just wow.

The sad truth is... If more players acted like this DH while being in a group with that mage, guy may never have reached 1600+ score... At some point, I understand why there's ones who just can't play with people unable to press buttons... Especially on a +18, that's not anymore a "weekly no leavers" run there.

Hopefully, most of the time PUGs are at an acceptable level to get weekly done. Did already more than 10 runs this week, the only bad one I had was a +16 TOP where the healer was unable to keep people up on the 1st pride, then on the pull after (with prideful buff...). Guys who died on that pull left just after. In this case, believe me, time is not wasted, but saved!

[Clbull]

you see not lusting a boss after pride is equal toxic and shows that you have zero exp in this key and waste 4 fellow players time, its easy to blame others insted of asking youself what you could have done better.
Thats also the diffrence between dogshit players and good players, the good player will focus to improve himself and the bad one will post on mmochamp about how toxic everyone is and how he did nothing wrong.

And you think it's acceptable to throw profanities at people, label them a "boosted re*ard" and abandon key like a dick all over a measly mistake like that? The key was well ahead of time. We had the first boss down by around the 35 minute mark. We were definitely going to time that key with at least a +2.

The problem was that I didn't see messages in party chat asking me to BL because my attention was focused on another screen. I apologized for the mistake and I wasn't mean about it. But if you leave key over a measly error like that you deserve to be banned from the game.

Riot Games and the greater League of Legends community wouldn't stand for somebody leaving a ranked match because another player was underperforming. Why should the WoW community stand for that crap?

People like you who hold shitty elitist holier-than-thou attitudes are the cancer that's killing WoW. You're the reason why FFXIV Endwalker is probably going to eclipse this game once it comes out. Just look at the number of active players, Blizzard's utter desperation at removing prepaid time purchase options and the rising price of WoW tokens to a new high and honestly tell me Blizzard aren't in dire straits.

Toxicity is a major point of contention in this game, and if Blizzard cba to tackle it, I stand by my proposal that the community take matters into their own hands.

[Kuntantee]

Leaving is not toxic. Healer left because of toxic environment probably. If there are people shit talking each other or acting with malicious intent, that's toxic.
Again, I don't see these toxic guys everyone is talking about, especially not every day.

Leaving and depleting others key on a whim over a small argument composed of 2 exchanges is extremely toxic. Not to mention the run was going rather smooth.

[Trumpcat]

It is like they are actively working towards turning the game into a chat lobby for instanced content, but unlike other similar matchmaking systems WoW doen't have protections in place. I don't think it's anyone's duty here to come up with the best system to regulate player behavior, the game has an army of people who are paid for such things. What we can do is bring the problem forward, which we've done far and wide.

Whether it's a rating, record, points, votes or any of the many possibilities it's badly needed. With the highly challenging and competitive environment they cultivate it's boggling that there are no means to regulate poor player behavior and experiences. They are brewing toxic pits.

[faunski]

I don’t see them often but they come up. Earlier this week I was running Plaguefall 15. I’m tanking, and I’ve timed it on 17 so I’m not a total idiot.

I pulled one pack and a 2k io dh says “wrong” then starts pulling on his own. At one point he runs ahead, pulls a tentacle, dies and wipes the group, then says “oh well I tried” and bails.

A lot of high io players will leave even if a run is going fine because something doesn’t meet their definition of optimal. We were easily on pace to time the key until he started acting like a dick.

I can’t for the life of me understand how a person ends up like that.

To be fair, I wouldn't generalize the high rio players. It tends to be the players that think they're high rio and good (1.5k-2.5k usually), but are actually mid-high tier at best. If I join a key at a certain level, I'm not expecting them to perform like we're timing a 24 and I would never try to correct the tanks' route once the instance has already begun. So the people above the the "pusher crowd" tend to be a bit more calm, usually because they'll be pushing with a team at that point and the most common reason to do lower keys is for fun and weeklies. And I just don't see the reason to bring a tryhard mindset into those.

[Ilookfly]

A lot of the time people agree to leave keys if they aint timeable. System is fine.

[Clbull]

You know I was going to write a long text, but it doesn't matter. The core problem is that people can be toxic w/o any consequence. They ruin your key and literally 45 seconds later, find another group, maybe ruin that one too. This is something you could not do in, say, WotLK. If you kept pissing people off in your server, you'd eventually be locked out of meaningful content because you wouldn't get an invite.

There are solutions to this problem, but Blizzard will not implement them. The solutions using game systems can only be partial. In M+, you can address the toxicity if you want to because of how that system is designed (key depletion, rating, etc.). So you can actually hurt players if they are toxic. You can't do the same in raids, for example. Today, I got kicked for asking "did someone heal the boss or is dps too low" on sire. I was top dps, and the question was genuine because party dps looked okay and we could not beat the timer on phase 1 which surprised me. My curiosity lead to kick. Imagine the intolerance.

So, even if you address the problem on M+, you can not address the problem on PvP, Raid and many other in aspects of the game. The real solution is removing cross-realm, but that's not going to happen. My original statement: toxicity in WoW can not be fixed.

On the other hand, flagging toxic players via a downloadable addon would help players know who to avoid grouping with. It would make M+ (and possibly even PvP) a far better experience. It would also serve as a tool to help guilds screen which players to welcome into their ranks.

The idea isn't foolproof. The two problems I see is that screenshots can easily be faked so you'd possibly need alternative corroborating evidence of bad behaviour, and you'd need a trusted group of people to curate the list, because if everybody could just automatically add people, the system would quickly become a cesspool of abuse.

Another issue is that Blizzard could turn around and C&D the addon, or disable core functionality that potentially screws over similar addons like Raider.io and Wowrep.io, along with many others. Then again, they didn't give a solitary crap when Nnoggie tried to paywall Mythic Dungeon Tools, or towards Zygor charging for his addon guides.