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  1. #941
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    You could be talking about any number of things and ideas banging around today both in the WoW community and IRL, or at any point in history. Unfortunately people trying to solve "problems" and creating bigger ones is nothing unique to WoW or anything new.
    You are not wrong! I suppose put more clearly; leavers are not a problem to WoW. Most leavers are justified in doing so. There are a few rare exceptions but they do not warrant any major change. Every mooted solution so far would be utterly awful, some of which are so bad they indicate some major issue with the suggester.

  2. #942
    "People can leave on push keys" is not an argument because no one is discussing that or disputing its normality. Drop the artificial discussion and extremely poor arguments. Did someone say "people shouldn't leave 20 keys after a wipe" or something? Or are some of you hallucinating? People, however, do leave non-push keys, such as 8s, 10s, 12s. In these difficulties, one or two wipes will not deplete the key but people still leave after first wipe.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2021-05-08 at 09:22 PM.

  3. #943
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    almost any reason is valid to leave... if i don't like someone in the group, that's a valid reason to leave... if people are pulling mobs and wiping us, that's a valid reason to leave... if the tank isn't using his mitigation, that's a valid reason to leave... if people are doing low dps, that's a valid reason to leave...
    ^
    This is the kind of mentality people like me are arguing against, in case some of you wonder. Extreme levels of selfishness.

    I am afraid this attitude is pathologic.

  4. #944
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    lol, it's selfishness to expect people to not wipe the group by pulling mobs that weren't on the route? and twice to the same thing?

    selfishness to not want to carry people? lol... if you want a boost, pay for it... you go try to heal a tank that doesn't use his mitigation... see how much you enjoy that...
    Dude, you just said you leave groups when you "do not like people".

  5. #945
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    yes... why should i stay with people i don't like?
    Why join in the first place?

  6. #946
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    it's when they start flaming me for not using bloodlust as a paladin that i start to not like them...
    Do you expect us to believe this crap? That someone flamed a paladin for not using BL?

  7. #947
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Do you expect us to believe this crap? That someone flamed a paladin for not using BL?
    Had someone go off on me last night because I didn't have any invis pots. I was on my druid. Instances like this are incredibly rare, in my experience, but they do happen. Bottom line: Some people can be incredibly stupid/toxic/whatever.

  8. #948
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    yes... people are that stupid... i've had people tell to me dispel curses on my priest even when doing 19s and then flame me for not dispelling them... told to dispel curses by mages/druids/shamans... classes that can dispel curses, unlike priests... curse of obliteration not getting dispelled and people taking massive damage from that is somehow a priests fault lol...

    edit: had to look for the screenshot... took a while to find it...

    Alright, apparently people are that stupid. What was the key?

  9. #949
    5 people and none of them has drums...

  10. #950
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Alright, apparently people are that stupid. What was the key?
    yes people are that stupid.

    like for example tank in soa 16 today who pulled 2nd boss without pulling pride right before boss because he didnt know the route.

    and then after wipe said they are leaving because they want it timed.

    i mean ... what the actual f.... not my key so i dont care about anythign but wasted 15 minutes to get there.

    sadly aparently nowadyas people are learnign dungeons in +15/16

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    "People can leave on push keys" is not an argument because no one is discussing that or disputing its normality. Drop the artificial discussion and extremely poor arguments. Did someone say "people shouldn't leave 20 keys after a wipe" or something? Or are some of you hallucinating? People, however, do leave non-push keys, such as 8s, 10s, 12s. In these difficulties, one or two wipes will not deplete the key but people still leave after first wipe.
    and never without a reason . its super late in tier so only people who do stuff like 8-12 are very fresh undergeared alts - or like 5-10th alt on which people usually play very ... poorly .

  11. #951
    Or you could play the explosives...

  12. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    lol... those people really should get banned from the game...

    i just left a +14 because the tank had no clue at all... "i will do big pull", pulls like 20 mobs... ok... it's fucking explosive idiot... i just left as soon as he started rounding the mobs up... he just said this as the key started...

    time from key starting to someone fucking my will up to play with them: <1 minute...

    that would be a nightmare to run considering it started that bad... no point staying...
    Judging by the screenshot you took, you seem to be a paladin (pink colour on the Non-DKs name)
    Do explosives yourself. You're pretty much the best class to do it, outside of maybe rogues. You still gain holy power by crusader striking them after all, you want to be in melee range anyway, which is where they spawn.

    The biggest problem with pulling super big this week is that retard dps extend bursting, not explosives.

  13. #953
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Or you could play the explosives...
    Explosives spawned by 20 enemies, + all dmg you have to deal to them till your tanks defensives are all on cooldown and he dies, all while there is probably kiting involved, meaning orbs spawn like everywhere, while the area is quite small for kiting (as it's the starting area, could risk pulling unnecessary stuff), + bursting? Yeah, good start to a +14 key, where it costs more time do deal with this single pull than doing 2 or 3 smaller pulls. It's not MDI at all. Would not want to see how the run goes after this.

  14. #954
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    Explosives spawned by 20 enemies, + all dmg you have to deal to them till your tanks defensives are all on cooldown and he dies, all while there is probably kiting involved, meaning orbs spawn like everywhere, while the area is quite small for kiting (as it's the starting area, could risk pulling unnecessary stuff), + bursting? Yeah, good start to a +14 key, where it costs more time do deal with this single pull than doing 2 or 3 smaller pulls. It's not MDI at all. Would not want to see how the run goes after this.
    Yeah. My point is that sugarcube seems to have a really short fuse, dropping group as soon as a single thing doesn't go his way. In most dungeons you can LOS explosives too and before ragequitting mid pull maybe go on and play the explosives. There are another 4 people in there with him who could maybe spend a global on some of them. If it obviously doesn't work then tell the tank after the pull/wipe.

  15. #955
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Yeah. My point is that sugarcube seems to have a really short fuse, dropping group as soon as a single thing doesn't go his way. In most dungeons you can LOS explosives too and before ragequitting mid pull maybe go on and play the explosives. There are another 4 people in there with him who could maybe spend a global on some of them. If it obviously doesn't work then tell the tank after the pull/wipe.
    Yeah, we do not know the dungeon, too. Depending on dungeon it could've been "okay" (although bursting would kill people in a pug, because .. pug dps).
    Imo you'd lose more time doing such a pull in a pug - I wouldn't leave myself, but I'd be completely stressed in such a situation. You simply can't know if the group can handle stuff like this.

    In premades, it's on a complete different level, as you know what your fellow people can do or can't do.

  16. #956
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    lol... those people really should get banned from the game...

    i just left a +14 because the tank had no clue at all... "i will do big pull", pulls like 20 mobs... ok... it's fucking explosive idiot... i just left as soon as he started rounding the mobs up... he just said this as the key started...

    time from key starting to someone fucking my will up to play with them: <1 minute...

    that would be a nightmare to run considering it started that bad... no point staying...
    seen this in dos 16 2 days ago - i even typed twice to be carefull about pulling in the bird part - run was super smooth - but ofc tank pulled 3 packs at a time - first time healer somehow healed - 2nd pull ? was impossible to heal due to dot - we wipe - tank fake dcs .

    ..... i put it all on fact that its super late in tier and most good people just taken break already .

    cant wait for tbc launch to take break from retail as it will get only worse and worse with more and more people taking break till 9.1 - already have my 3 main alts 220+ so i bca to deal with that .... for additional 2-3 itlv.
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-05-09 at 10:07 AM.

  17. #957
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Yeah. My point is that sugarcube seems to have a really short fuse, dropping group as soon as a single thing doesn't go his way. In most dungeons you can LOS explosives too and before ragequitting mid pull maybe go on and play the explosives. There are another 4 people in there with him who could maybe spend a global on some of them. If it obviously doesn't work then tell the tank after the pull/wipe.
    its natural though if hes doing like 16+ - in 14/15 you can recover from 1 full wipe - in higher difficulties full wipe usually means not timed key . and why finish it if it wont be reflected in toxic io score.

    now if there was additional score - finished untimed runs - people woudl for sure stay .

  18. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    how the fuck am i supposed to kill all explosives spawning from like 20 mobs? you don't pull like 20 mobs during explosive...
    You can. Just have to LOS the explosives.

    And they don't tend to all spawn at the same time, so you have plenty of time to do it. And even if they do, there's what, 3 guys in there whose sole job is to kill things, maybe they can help? And then there's the tank too, who can also do it.

  19. #959
    I am not saying the leave wasn't justified, the tank was stupid not to tell the group in advance and get their opinion, he also shouldn't have pulled the gatekeeper.

    But at the same time he had a plan he thought would work and all he sees is you dropping group right at the start mid pull when he didn't even finish rounding em all up. And then he comes here demanding penalties for leavers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    ... i just left as soon as he started rounding the mobs up...

  20. #960
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    that's most pug tanks...

    case in point...



    put my own key up... this guy had 1.5k rio... thought ok... it's just a 14...

    he shifted out from bear and died almost instantly at second pull...

    then he did the same thing on third pull and then left after i told him to remove his buttons so he can't shift out of bear lol...
    Ouch, seeing this really hurt my brain.
    As bear you simply do not have any out-of-bear buttons near any buttons you regulary use - to many mistakes can happen this way. Seen a bear not using iron skin, too, because "meh, just a bit armor".

    Quite reasonable to leave when people do not put the time into learning their basics. It costs 4 people + the player in case valuable time.
    I can't understand, why people do not put.. what.. 20 minutes? time to learn the basics of the class or spec they play. It's just not fair for the other humans you play with - this is more "toxic" than leaving because of someone like this imo.

    The least I expect from others is that they know the basics - in higher keys obviously more is needed, but when playing below 10 you see so many people not knowing their own abilities. That's completely fked.

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