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  1. #1061
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    Yeah, we do not know the dungeon, too.
    necrotic wake... bursting wouldn't even be a problem because i was on my priest just trying to fill my vault and i can mass dispel it... but all those explosives that will spawn from that big pull... fuck that... people aren't killing explosives in so many groups this week when just trying to fill my vault on characters and i can't keep killing them when the tank is taking damage on my priest because i have to stand still and cast to heal...
    Last edited by Sugarcube; 2021-05-09 at 10:13 AM.

  2. #1062
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Yeah. My point is that sugarcube seems to have a really short fuse, dropping group as soon as a single thing doesn't go his way. In most dungeons you can LOS explosives too and before ragequitting mid pull maybe go on and play the explosives. There are another 4 people in there with him who could maybe spend a global on some of them. If it obviously doesn't work then tell the tank after the pull/wipe.
    its natural though if hes doing like 16+ - in 14/15 you can recover from 1 full wipe - in higher difficulties full wipe usually means not timed key . and why finish it if it wont be reflected in toxic io score.

    now if there was additional score - finished untimed runs - people woudl for sure stay .

  3. #1063
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    how the fuck am i supposed to kill all explosives spawning from like 20 mobs? you don't pull like 20 mobs during explosive...
    You can. Just have to LOS the explosives.

    And they don't tend to all spawn at the same time, so you have plenty of time to do it. And even if they do, there's what, 3 guys in there whose sole job is to kill things, maybe they can help? And then there's the tank too, who can also do it.

  4. #1064
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    You can. Just have to LOS the explosives.

    And they don't tend to all spawn at the same time, so you have plenty of time to do it. And even if they do, there's what, 3 guys in there whose sole job is to kill things, maybe they can help? And then there's the tank too, who can also do it.
    they didn't...

    and los where?

    he pulled all this



    where do we los the explosives? not only me... we... last time i saw pugs line of sighting explosives was in freehold in bfa...

    he tanked them where the spear is... rounding them up there... you think people are going to run behind the wall? i don't think they would...

    almost every fucking group i am the only one doing explosives no matter what healer i'm on... none of the dps touches them... nor the tank...

    one of the tanks in a group... on why he doesn't kill explosives...



    ...

    no wipes to bursting this week... all wipes i've had this week has come down to explosives or people not doing mechanics or too low dps on bosses... not bursting...
    Last edited by Sugarcube; 2021-05-09 at 10:33 AM.

  5. #1065
    I am not saying the leave wasn't justified, the tank was stupid not to tell the group in advance and get their opinion, he also shouldn't have pulled the gatekeeper.

    But at the same time he had a plan he thought would work and all he sees is you dropping group right at the start mid pull when he didn't even finish rounding em all up. And then he comes here demanding penalties for leavers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    ... i just left as soon as he started rounding the mobs up...

  6. #1066
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    I am not saying the leave wasn't justified, the tank was stupid
    that's most pug tanks...

    case in point...



    put my own key up... this guy had 1.5k rio... thought ok... it's just a 14...

    he shifted out from bear and died almost instantly at second pull...

    then he did the same thing on third pull and then left after i told him to remove his buttons so he can't shift out of bear lol... it's so absurd... i would have left myself if he didn't leave and did it again lol...
    Last edited by Sugarcube; 2021-05-09 at 10:58 AM.

  7. #1067
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    that's most pug tanks...

    case in point...



    put my own key up... this guy had 1.5k rio... thought ok... it's just a 14...

    he shifted out from bear and died almost instantly at second pull...

    then he did the same thing on third pull and then left after i told him to remove his buttons so he can't shift out of bear lol...
    Ouch, seeing this really hurt my brain.
    As bear you simply do not have any out-of-bear buttons near any buttons you regulary use - to many mistakes can happen this way. Seen a bear not using iron skin, too, because "meh, just a bit armor".

    Quite reasonable to leave when people do not put the time into learning their basics. It costs 4 people + the player in case valuable time.
    I can't understand, why people do not put.. what.. 20 minutes? time to learn the basics of the class or spec they play. It's just not fair for the other humans you play with - this is more "toxic" than leaving because of someone like this imo.

    The least I expect from others is that they know the basics - in higher keys obviously more is needed, but when playing below 10 you see so many people not knowing their own abilities. That's completely fked.

  8. #1068
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    they didn't...

    and los where?

    he pulled all this

    [img]https://i.imgur.com/3ka08HT.png[img]

    where do we los the explosives? not only me... we... last time i saw pugs line of sighting explosives was in freehold in bfa...

    Tank on one cross, move to other cross to LOS. Easy


    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    he tanked them where the spear is... rounding them up there... you think people are going to run behind the wall? i don't think they would...
    Probably not, but that's why we have party chat, so you can tell them to! It's a miracle what you can make people do if you communicate

    almost every fucking group i am the only one doing explosives no matter what healer i'm on... none of the dps touches them... nor the tank...
    Maybe you should start being more careful with who you invite?

    one of the tanks in a group... on why he doesn't kill explosives...



    ...
    He's bad, invite better tanks

    no wipes to bursting this week... all wipes i've had this week has come down to explosives or people not doing mechanics or too low dps on bosses... not bursting...
    And I've only had deaths to bursting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    put my own key up... this guy had 1.5k rio... thought ok... it's just a 14...
    I've seen 1800 people who don't know how to interrupt, and ended with ~4k overall dps

    Check logs too if you actually want to make sure they know how to play

  9. #1069
    Quote Originally Posted by AlmightyGerkin View Post
    Best way to prevent M+ leavers imo. Leave a m+ and a piece of your armor gets broken and can't repair it till next reset.
    This is a genius idea, actually.

    I propose the following: a piece of your armor breaks in a way that requires a somewhat expensive item from the Auction House to fix it.

  10. #1070
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post

    Tank on one cross, move to other cross to LOS. Easy
    For this the tank would actually have to tank there, not at spear. Midpull it's hard to save such a situation. + you expect pugs to actually do mechanics.

  11. #1071
    The backseat gaming here is amazing.
    “Just do the dozens of explosives yourself”

    “Just los them. And also tell the group to los them at this specific place while the tank gets beaten up by a dozen mobs. Just start chatting”

    You guys are hilarious

  12. #1072
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Give leavers the deserter debuff. Seems fair to me.
    only if its 3-4 as long as deserting a random dungeon

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    they didn't...

    and los where?

    he pulled all this



    where do we los the explosives? not only me... we... last time i saw pugs line of sighting explosives was in freehold in bfa...

    he tanked them where the spear is... rounding them up there... you think people are going to run behind the wall? i don't think they would...

    almost every fucking group i am the only one doing explosives no matter what healer i'm on... none of the dps touches them... nor the tank...

    one of the tanks in a group... on why he doesn't kill explosives...



    ...

    no wipes to bursting this week... all wipes i've had this week has come down to explosives or people not doing mechanics or too low dps on bosses... not bursting...
    who the fuck pulls the gatekeepet????? thats the WORST route i have seen for necrotic wake

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elodeon View Post
    This is a genius idea, actually.

    I propose the following: a piece of your armor breaks in a way that requires a somewhat expensive item from the Auction House to fix it.
    i actually agree with this, they need some sort of punishment for this

  13. #1073
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post


    who the fuck pulls the gatekeepet????? thats the WORST route i have seen for necrotic wake
    lol... that tank did...

  14. #1074
    Brewmaster Clown World's Avatar
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    I just don't see it. Can't remember the last time anyone left my group.

    Probably because I'm healing and I'll just carry them all to victory!
    “Life is just a series of peaks and troughs, and you don't know whether you're in a trough until you're climbing out, or on a peak until you're coming down. And that's it, you know, you never know what's round the corner. But it's all good. "If you want the rainbow you've got to put up with the rain" - David Brent.

  15. #1075
    Quote Originally Posted by Art the Clown View Post
    I just don't see it. Can't remember the last time anyone left my group.

    Probably because I'm healing and I'll just carry them all to victory!
    tanks are the main leaves that i see otherwise its a rio hunter dps that cant read the title of a grp put up in the browser

  16. #1076
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    tanks are the main leaves that i see otherwise its a rio hunter dps that cant read the title of a grp put up in the browser
    plenty people leave when group is false advertised.

    if someone names groups as " ++ uber big d...ck dps , blasters only , timed push" then people who join such groups expect exackly that thing.

    if they see that group is performing badly - they leave

    and i cant blame them - usually you can predict with 95% accuracy how group will go after first 2 trash pulls .

    if im going after toxic io score not weekly then i will leave such group

    if addon starts tracking that i will just start to fake dc and swap to alts.

    there is no point in wasting time carrying others - because thats how you end up with 1500 io people not doing tactics - they got carried by others.

  17. #1077
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    how the fuck am i supposed to kill all explosives spawning from like 20 mobs? you don't pull like 20 mobs during explosive...
    That's easy team effort. HoA mini-boss room gets those spawned all over the place the second you enter the combat. I would have been more worried by bursting, explosives are not a problem unless your party is not that good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    The backseat gaming here is amazing.
    “Just do the dozens of explosives yourself”

    “Just los them. And also tell the group to los them at this specific place while the tank gets beaten up by a dozen mobs. Just start chatting”

    You guys are hilarious
    Is it what you should do in a pug? No
    Why would even join such group?

    But let's not act like those pulls are not doable. Especially on a 14 on tyra. Mobs barely do any damage, explosives are not impossible either if it's a team effort. Bursting is the hardest but pala can bubble sac and dispel another one, if you have some other immunities in the party - not a problem again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elodeon View Post
    This is a genius idea, actually.

    I propose the following: a piece of your armor breaks in a way that requires a somewhat expensive item from the Auction House to fix it.
    So you will get punished if you have a troll/afker?
    You can't get a punishment in MANUALLY assembled group content, any solution I have ever seen either opens it to griefing and abuse or punishes potentially innocent people.
    In few years of doing m+ at a competitive level, I only saw one intentionally malicious player and I still remember it. Imagine if some toxic trash would stop leaving and start trolling instead? You wouldn't get support from CS as each case would have to be reviewed manually by a COMPETENT m+ player to determine if it was malicious or was someone actually just learning the m+. Imagine how many reports would come for "griefing" just because of "wrong" routes, no interrupts/not lusting/bad lusting. You have that in LoL - people reporting intentional feeding on people who die twice or if someone does not engage in obviously stupid fight and that one dumbo jumps in and dies, then start reporting you for "Afking"

    I mean some guy called me few names and told me that I will get banned for "griefing" in World PvP quest location with WM ON.
    Last edited by erifwodahs; 2021-05-10 at 08:28 AM.

  18. #1078
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    That's easy team effort. HoA mini-boss room gets those spawned all over the place the second you enter the combat. I would have been more worried by bursting, explosives are not a problem unless your party is not that good.
    You are indeed right, but you expect this from a pug. You can never, ever expect such a gameplay from a pug below 17/18 at all. There are people who are this good, but the majority of the playerbase is not.

    All your assumptions are from the view of higher-scored pugs (-> plenty of exp) or premades. Never assume that a pug is able to deal with specific pulls.
    Depending on the classsetup 20 enemies are absolutely stupid, as most classes are capped with their aoe anyways. If you do not have any uncapped specs in your group, this is the worst you could do - the pull that this specific tank did even spawns endless enemies, which further possibly negates dmg to the important enemies.

    Agreeing with you on the punishment part. There is no good solution that wouldn't hurt either the innocent or would require blizzard to hire plenty of people just for checking hundreds of reports a day.

    Ha, had this in Rift - I camped the PvPvE Quest location alone and killed everyone there, had exact this experience. Was funny tho, many grouped up people, still to bad to kill one single player. Had my fun and never recieved any banns or whatever for it.
    Last edited by Bloodyleech; 2021-05-10 at 08:33 AM.

  19. #1079
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    SNIP
    That's why it's a bad move in a pug by the tank. + NW is not something where you want to do 20 mob pull in the first place unless you commit CDs and BL. I suspect it was either a tank who doesn't do pugs and is used to doing something what he perceives as "perfectly doable" or he just tried to copy someone/something.

    I have been caught by doing pulls which is hard for pugs to handle myself and if I do pug, I have to constantly remind myself that there is plenty of time to do "easy" stuff because when I do three pack pull and people don't commit CDs/does not provide support/interrupt wrong stuff it frustrates me greatly, but it's ultimately my own overestimation of what we can do. Altho when I pug players into 19s or 20s there is no real option to hesitate, but that's a different world, most people actually care about the route before we even go in.

  20. #1080
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    That's why it's a bad move in a pug by the tank. + NW is not something where you want to do 20 mob pull in the first place unless you commit CDs and BL. I suspect it was either a tank who doesn't do pugs and is used to doing something what he perceives as "perfectly doable" or he just tried to copy someone/something.

    I have been caught by doing pulls which is hard for pugs to handle myself and if I do pug, I have to constantly remind myself that there is plenty of time to do "easy" stuff because when I do three pack pull and people don't commit CDs/does not provide support/interrupt wrong stuff it frustrates me greatly, but it's ultimately my own overestimation of what we can do. Altho when I pug players into 19s or 20s there is no real option to hesitate, but that's a different world, most people actually care about the route before we even go in.
    In 19+ content, yeah, people should know what to use and when to use it, how to utilize the terrain and so on. If I'm not wrong, the pulls after certain levels are always the same, no matter the key-level? Therefore, people in those ranges usually have the required experience. There are always black sheeps, but in your level range they should not be as frequent as in mid keys (10-15).

    To the tank in question - I do not think that anyone sane would actually pull the gatedude. There is no reason to do it, whatever the route is. I really question this pull strategy made by him (especially in a pug, but even outside).

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