Solution for M+ leavers....

[kamuimac]

It's about the amount you leave. Regular leaver have a high leaver%. That's the whole reason behind it.
The amount of played dungeons can be easily added to this. - "oh, he played 8 dungeons and left once? Happens". But with lets say 150 runs and 15 left runs.. That's someone who leaves regulary or someone who has very low knowledge about time management and has to leave bc of this, but people like this are as bad as toxic leaver.

regular leave can be also very unlucky with groups he pics

like i had seen 3 groups disband just today because aparently tanks forgot how sanguine works. mix it with grievous and its recipe for disaster.

also imo people watch to much mdi - i mean 2 of those disbands were in mists where tank literaly pulled 2 first packs toghether on sanguine . how many pugs can manage this properly without just healing big dudes and having to effectively rekill them twice.

[Bloodyleech]

regular leave can be also very unlucky with groups he pics

like i had seen 3 groups disband just today because aparently tanks forgot how sanguine works. mix it with grievous and its recipe for disaster.

also imo people watch to much mdi - i mean 2 of those disbands were in mists where tank literaly pulled 2 first packs toghether on sanguine . how many pugs can manage this properly without just healing big dudes and having to effectively rekill them twice.

When a run fails because tank leaves, you do not get any leaver%, as you are not the one leaving or dcing first.

[faunski]

grievous isn't even a problem unless people are taking a lot of avoidable damage... as long as people aren't taking a lot of avoidable damage, it's one of the easiest affixes to deal with imo...

As it stands our seasonal affix happens to be pulsing aoe damage given it's dealable on low keys, I'd rather rate it one of the worst affixes due to prideful. It's one of the only ones that actually make the week unbearable (read: not worth pushing) on 20+ keys.

[sam86]

There isn't an easy fix or it probably would have been implemented already.

there is already, the same system for hc dungeon leaving is the least minimum required, why they never implemented it is no idea

[kamuimac]

you can easily avoid the penalty in hc dungeons... just kill one boss or wait a certain amount of time and you can leave with no penalty...

they removed it completly this expansion due to people farming memories.

you can just leave hc with no penalty and no daily lockout once you kill 1 boss.

[Twdft]

there is already, the same system for hc dungeon leaving is the least minimum required, why they never implemented it is no idea

They didn't implement it because... drum roll... you choose your fellow dungeoneers in mythic+ instead of getting random players chosen by the game. Player behaviour in manual groups is a social problem that can't be solved by automatics.

Also about showing any kind of leave count: be careful what you wish for. I think even if you have 0.01% showing you will never get chosen by pug leaders until literally everyone shows some %.

[erifwodahs]

there is already, the same system for hc dungeon leaving is the least minimum required, why they never implemented it is no idea

It's a manually assembled group. Imagine going into a dungeon with your guildies and deciding that you actually want to leave the key as it is too hard. There are plenty of valid reasons to leave a key especially on infinitely scaling difficulty, where there will eventually be a key which you can't complete.
Should raid pugs have the same penalty then? Coming into a pug, seeing that "Curved only" group has ilvl 205 leader with 9/10 Normal - bam, deserter.

[sam86]

you can easily avoid the penalty in hc dungeons... just kill one boss or wait a certain amount of time and you can leave with no penalty...

hence why i said the least minimum, it isn't best solution, but it is at least a solution, better than absolutely nothing we have now

[faunski]

i haven't had much problems with it and i did a 19 earlier... doubt it would become that much more difficult if i do a 20... is this something i'm too holy priest to understand? it's really easy to keep the stacks down... especially with apotheosis...

Pride scaling goes off the walls. I've only timed max 22s on grievous weeks which is two levels below my team's normal average. It's just not worth pushingwise, the amount of cds you have to commit are too high, granted we skip most of the prides anyways. It might be doable, but it is not an easy affix.

Edit: Naturally it's class related as we do have the meta holy pala healer which is one of the worst raw pride healers unless we burn ashen there. So I suppose on a h priest it might work out if it feels like it. Still wouldn't classify the affix as easy

[Fenrys]

Pride scaling goes off the walls. I've only timed max 22s on grievous weeks which is two levels below my team's normal average. It's just not worth pushingwise, the amount of cds you have to commit are too high, granted we skip most of the prides anyways. It might be doable, but it is not an easy affix.

Edit: Naturally it's class related as we do have the meta holy pala healer which is one of the worst raw pride healers unless we burn ashen there. So I suppose on a h priest it might work out if it feels like it. Still wouldn't classify the affix as easy

Holy priests are one of the very best at dealing with Pride. They aren't meta for damage reasons, but they own pride healing

[Alroxas]

there is already, the same system for hc dungeon leaving is the least minimum required, why they never implemented it is no idea

HC dungeons are queueable which means it's the game putting people together. So there are various tools to help alleviate the randomness of being put into a group with strangers.

For M+, group finder is relying on the group leader making the "correct" decision on whom to bring to the run. It's deterministic by the player so those tools (found in LFR/LFD) aren't in there because it's no longer a random computer program putting folks together but a player.

- - - Updated - - -

hence why i said the least minimum, it isn't best solution, but it is at least a solution, better than absolutely nothing we have now

But there are solutions that folks keep ignoring: Make your own group, only play challenging keys with players you have a gaming history/past with or players that you have an existing social framework to hold them accountable.

[kamuimac]

grievous isn't even a problem unless people are taking a lot of avoidable damage... as long as people aren't taking a lot of avoidable damage, it's one of the easiest affixes to deal with imo...

ye - aparently it is because i see abundance of like 1300 io healers who completly dont understand how grievous works.

for example i left last night 1 dungeon ? because healer went 2 times oom on 3 trash packs cause 2 full wipes. im not gonna stay in run that will end up with like 200 deaths ust because its most liekly lietraly first time in his life when he deals with this affix and he is learning how to play in +16

[Tziva]

ye - aparently it is because i see abundance of like 1300 io healers who completly dont understand how grievous works.

for example i left last night 1 dungeon ? because healer went 2 times oom on 3 trash packs cause 2 full wipes.

I mean, the latter is not really an example of the former. If everyone is being really shit about taking damage and stacking grievous when they don't need to, going OOM is entirely possible between pridefuls. But even some pulls that have high aoe damage, even if people are pretty good about avoiding stuff, it isn't abnormal for people to end up with a lot of grievous and it can be hard to catch up or sustain mana, especially for some classes. It's hard to make any kind of blanket statements about how hard/easy grievous is because it is so super dependent on the healer's class and corresponding toolkit, and also how good the group is.

I understand well how grievous work, but it's one of the few weeks where mana is sometimes an issue for me (bursting being the other since it fucks leaving combat for sipping in addition to damage). I might end a Prideful spawn running on fumes, so it's easy to see how if things had gone slightly worse (one missing interrupt, one DPS clipping sanguine and pushing their stack up, etc) might have resulted in deaths that just snowball. And I'm a resto shaman -- one of the best equipped classes for grievous. I feel like a Disc priest would just need to sit this week out, in contrast.

That said, there certainly are a lot of people who don't understand grievous and/or can't handle it, not just healers (but also lots of healers). I DPSed a +13 run earlier today where one of the melee that got hit by everything kept demanding to be "dispelled" (of course while simultaneously reapplying stacks as the healer did their best to get him to 90); by a 13 you should fucking understand how that shit works. I also have seen a lot of healers struggling this week, and already had two healers just DC or AFK in the middle of a run after dying*, causing the groups to fall apart. Most weeks I might see one leaver max, but this is one of those weeks where they are definitely more common.

* WHY DOES NO ONE ACTUALLY HAVE THE BALLS TO JUST LEAVE. THIS MAKES ME SO FRUSTRATED BECAUSE THE GROUP ALWAYS WANTS TO WAIT AROUND IN CASE THEY COME BACK AND THEY NEVER FUCKING DO. ahem.

[chiddie]

I mean, the latter is not really an example of the former. If everyone is being really shit about taking damage and stacking grievous when they don't need to, going OOM is entirely possible between pridefuls. But even some pulls that have high aoe damage, even if people are pretty good about avoiding stuff, it isn't abnormal for people to end up with a lot of grievous and it can be hard to catch up or sustain mana, especially for some classes. It's hard to make any kind of blanket statements about how hard/easy grievous is because it is so super dependent on the healer's class and corresponding toolkit, and also how good the group is.

I understand well how grievous work, but it's one of the few weeks where mana is sometimes an issue for me (bursting being the other since it fucks leaving combat for sipping in addition to damage). I might end a Prideful spawn running on fumes, so it's easy to see how if things had gone slightly worse (one missing interrupt, one DPS clipping sanguine and pushing their stack up, etc) might have resulted in deaths that just snowball. And I'm a resto shaman -- one of the best equipped classes for grievous. I feel like a Disc priest would just need to sit this week out, in contrast.

That said, there certainly are a lot of people who don't understand grievous and/or can't handle it, not just healers (but also lots of healers). I DPSed a +13 run earlier today where one of the melee that got hit by everything kept demanding to be "dispelled" (of course while simultaneously reapplying stacks as the healer did their best to get him to 90); by a 13 you should fucking understand how that shit works. I also have seen a lot of healers struggling this week, and already had two healers just DC or AFK in the middle of a run after dying*, causing the groups to fall apart. Most weeks I might see one leaver max, but this is one of those weeks where they are definitely more common.

* WHY DOES NO ONE ACTUALLY HAVE THE BALLS TO JUST LEAVE. THIS MAKES ME SO FRUSTRATED BECAUSE THE GROUP ALWAYS WANTS TO WAIT AROUND IN CASE THEY COME BACK AND THEY NEVER FUCKING DO. ahem.

Dude how can grievous be difficult to learn? It’s difficult to manage, but to learn? People have to be topped or near to topped all the time, end of grievous mechanic.

[kamuimac]

probably why lol... first pull he died twice to sanguine... second pull he died to sanguine... third pull he died to sanguine... fourth pull he died to sanguine... fifth pull he died to sanguine and got combat ressed and died almost instantly to sanguine again... that's when i left after that pack was dead... then he messages that...

what is funny every single of such whispers ir proving the decision to leave even more correct - to not carry such terrible toxic people .

i just /report them all and ignore.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude how can grievous be difficult to learn? It’s difficult to manage, but to learn? People have to be topped or near to topped all the time, end of grievous mechanic.

how can bolstering be hard ? how can exlosive be hard - etc etc and yet i see for example a chicken that ha sieze of godzilla in DoS sometimes or people dying to 10 stacks of dot that they just keep refreshing ad infinitum.

they can when for past 4 years people depended solely on TF / corruptions etc to carry them in dungeons.

for your average player anything but "aoe goes brrrr" is to hard mechanic in dungeon .

thats why blizzard shouldnt tune this game so high to apease only 5% of playerbase.

you know what would be the ideal combination for players ? fortified necrotic vulcanic or something similiar . if you asked your average dps thats what they would pick to be up as affixes 90% of time because those put pressure only on tank + have quick to die bosses.

[chiddie]

what is funny every single of such whispers ir proving the decision to leave even more correct - to not carry such terrible toxic people .

i just /report them all and ignore.

- - - Updated - - -



how can bolstering be hard ? how can exlosive be hard - etc etc and yet i see for example a chicken that ha sieze of godzilla in DoS sometimes or people dying to 10 stacks of dot that they just keep refreshing ad infinitum.

they can when for past 4 years people depended solely on TF / corruptions etc to carry them in dungeons.

for your average player anything but "aoe goes brrrr" is to hard mechanic in dungeon .

thats why blizzard shouldnt tune this game so high to apease only 5% of playerbase.

you know what would be the ideal combination for players ? fortified necrotic vulcanic or something similiar . if you asked your average dps thats what they would pick to be up as affixes 90% of time because those put pressure only on tank + have quick to die bosses.

Nononono I was making another reasoning.

The dude to whom I replied said that grievous was a difficult mechanic to understand. It’s not. It’s hard to MANAGE, but mechanic itself is straight forward. For example I know what Stradama tentacles do, but I just ger caught. That’s ok, but you can’t tell me in a 15 that you have no idea of what tentacles do.

I refuse to believe that someone has difficulty in understanding how grievous works. I instead can fully understand that people have issues in dealing with it, this is “intended”.

[Rageonit]

If you're with the guy on disco and see that he is not managing an affix properly, I'd advise you to... tell him. Works wonders!
One thing I've noticed (as an old WoW player) is that there are plenty of younger players of the "PUG generation" who refuse to communicate even when they are on disco together - simply because (or so I'm guessing) most of the time they PUG, so they just lack the habit to communicate, constantly. Seen many wipes that could've been avoided easily if a tank, or healer, said two words on disco. But nop.

[erifwodahs]

for example i left last night 1 dungeon ? because healer went 2 times oom on 3 trash packs cause 2 full wipes. im not gonna stay in run that will end up with like 200 deaths ust because its most liekly lietraly first time in his life when he deals with this affix and he is learning how to play in +16

How bad the damage has to be for the trash packs to live so long that healer goes oom? I mean if you try it would be hard unless your dps is that bad or tank is just letting mobs swim in sang.

[Rageonit]

good reminder why i stopped playing with most of my friends who play the game...

BTW, that's actually quite telling. This is the modern mentality of many WoW players: go into a dungeon with an (unfounded) assumption that everyone else is at least as good as you are (often overstimating your own skill), and take everything for granted. Do the run in absolute silence (why bother talking), quit if you see a sign of a possible defeat. Starting a fresh run with better players is faster than staying and trying to make someone else better - apparently, it's also better than having friends.
If there's an option to reap the rewards faster, take it. No matter the cost.

[Rageonit]

if telling my friends would suddenly make them better at playing i wouldn't have stopped playing with them lol...

As far as I understand, this guy didn't understand the mechanic and you didn't even bother to explain. In my book, you're the bigger culprit. But yeah, "He was so bad there was no point explaining". Why then, did you even step into the dungeon with him?