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  1. #141
    The only real solution is to change the way M+ works. Instead of getting a mostly worthless random bad item out of the end of dungeon chest and being punished if you don't complete the run in time, by losing out on the 2nd most likely bad item, M+ should reward a currency, which you can trade in for gear, like Valor points back in the day.

    This would mean people would have a much greater incentive to complete the run and collect their Valor points. Right now if you know you only get 1 item for the whole group and it's probably not going to be the one you want anyway, the temptation to just quit a potentially frustrating run is great.

    In practical terms I would keep the timer and if you beat said timer you'd be rewarded with a greater amount of Valor points, but if you don't and finish the key you still get a decent chunk and you'd be stupid to leave prematurely. I'd make sure finishing in time would provide only a minor increase to the quantity of the currency, 20% at most. Additionally a weekly cap would be a solid idea aswell, to make sure people don't burn themselves out too much and well we can't have a nigh infinite currency to buy decent loot. The currency would be spent to buy high item level Mythic dungeon items off a vendor, akin to the pvp vendor. Higher item level loot would cost more Valor, naturally.

    The only problem with this change that I can think of right now is that perhaps it would be too easy to obtain high item level loot. But our friend timegating could solve that problem, if it takes 3 weeks worth of farming your weekly Valor points to obtain say a 226 weapon the gear inflation would be kept to a minimum, albeit still increase of course.
    Last edited by enigma77; 2021-01-15 at 04:59 AM.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    The only real solution is to change the way M+ works. Instead of getting a mostly worthless random bad item out of the end of dungeon chest and being punished if you don't complete the run in time, by losing out on the 2nd most likely bad item, M+ should reward a currency, which you can trade in for gear, like Valor points back in the day.

    This would mean people would have a much greater incentive to complete the run and collect their Valor points. Right now if you know you only get 1 item for the whole group and it's probably not going to be the one you want anyway, the temptation to just quit a potentially frustrating run is great.

    In practical terms I would keep the timer and if you beat said timer you'd be rewarded with a greater amount of Valor points, but if you don't and finish the key you still get a decent chunk and you'd be stupid to leave prematurely. I'd make sure finishing in time would provide only a minor increase to the quantity of the currency, 20% at most. Additionally a weekly cap would be a solid idea aswell, to make sure people don't burn themselves out too much and well we can't have a nigh infinite currency to buy decent loot. The currency would be spent to buy high item level Mythic dungeon items off a vendor, akin to the pvp vendor. Higher item level loot would cost more Valor, naturally.

    The only problem with this change that I can think of right now is that perhaps it would be too easy to obtain high item level loot. But our friend timegating could solve that problem, if it takes 3 weeks worth of farming your weekly Valor points to obtain say a 226 weapon the gear inflation would be kept to a minimum, albeit still increase of course.
    I think thered be the same amount of bitching if this was implemented.
    1, as you said, is there wld be access to even more high ilvl gear.
    2. If its time gated ppl are gonna cry that there's nothing to do when its done for the week.
    3. If its not time gated ppl are gonna grind it out real quick then we are back to the same problem

    Overall ppl need to understand that for this xpac, the purpose of M+ is to do 1/4/10 of then for great vault. Besides that your incentive of finishing a run is to grind up your rio score to work towards keymaster. The sub heroic level gear is the very last thing you should be concerned abt. By the time you're doing +15s, 210 gear is only used to fill in a couple spots.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    This doesn't even make sense, because you don't lose score for an untimed run, and you even gain score if you haven't done a key that level before. You just gain slightly less than if you had timed it, and timing it later will replace it. There is zero reason to leave a key because of impact on score.

    (to be clear, I'm saying people leaving because of raider.io score don't make sense; I'm not questioning the accuracy of your statement)


    Even if this was a good idea, there'd be no was to implement it because unfinished runs aren't recorded, much less available on api call.
    i know it dosent make make sense but why else would you leave right at the last boss with 2-4 mins left on the timer? then to chase io score?

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    i know it dosent make make sense but why else would you leave right at the last boss with 2-4 mins left on the timer? then to chase io score?
    Did he say why before leaving? Cldve been an irl emergency. I've had it happen. Feel bad for dipping out on 4 ppl after 30 or so minutes but if something IRL needs me unexpectedly, its a nobrainer

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Did he say why before leaving? Cldve been an irl emergency. I've had it happen. Feel bad for dipping out on 4 ppl after 30 or so minutes but if something IRL needs me unexpectedly, its a nobrainer
    he didnt say a word for the entire run

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    Beware this is a ranting topic:

    I used to be a semi hardcore WoW player but now I am a casual with just item lvl 203 main character.

    I make sure to do M+10 every week once for at least the weekly.

    My current guild is semi hardcore mythic raiding that I used to raid with them for years but now I just do with them some alt runs heroic raiding and normal mode can't raid mythic with them anymore.


    Yesterday I decided to do my weekly M+10 key with 3 of my friends and one PUG warlock with item lvl 209 and raider io 900+

    We did plaguefall dungeon we reached the first boss then the warlock decided no to dodge the basic simple breath cone of the boss and died. First time he apologized then we wiped, I didn't say anything then it happens three times the same issue. Then he said "fk this" then left.... I mean the key was already ruined since we wiped three times because of him....so why the dick move and leaving like that is just beyond me....


    I never ever like to go with pugs really but sometimes I have no choice because my current guild is busy doing 15+ mythic keys and mythic raiding sometimes they do alt run joining my 10 keys but yeah it is not always. Sometimes I have to pug one player or two then this shit happens...


    There has to be a solution for players like that who are purposely ruining other players keys...
    Tinfoil hat theory - - As i see more shit like this... i have a sneaking suspicion that a couple of them are some dumbass streamer trying to have content by being a moron in random ppls dungeons. Think of the show "Jackass" but more trollier and in WoW.

  7. #147
    I am Murloc! Kuja's Avatar
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    If there's a harsh penalty (Like not able to use LFG for dungeon groups for a day) for leaving a m+ when the timer has not yet run out, it should make people care more about ruining someone else's key.

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  8. #148
    Whilst you can’t fix people leaving, you can lessen the impact on those who are still there.

    Allow backfilling of players when the timer has expired. Absolutely no reason not to.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    he didnt say a word for the entire run
    Gotcha. Cldve possibly been an innocent reason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    If there's a harsh penalty (Like not able to use LFG for dungeon groups for a day) for leaving a m+ when the timer has not yet run out, it should make people care more about ruining someone else's key.
    Not gonna make the key in time, don't want the leaver penalty. In this situation I could just afk and you'll be punished for leaving it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flintty View Post
    Whilst you can’t fix people leaving, you can lessen the impact on those who are still there.

    Allow backfilling of players when the timer has expired. Absolutely no reason not to.
    Would the new player get the shot at loot, or would the player who left?

    If new player does, then expect to clear til final boss and then get kicked for their friend. If you implement a policy where kicked players stull get loot to prevent that, ppl will either purposefully try to get kicked, or the group itself will just wait around until you decide fuck it and leave.

    All of these situations worse than the current one

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post

    Would the new player get the shot at loot, or would the player who left?

    If new player does, then expect to clear til final boss and then get kicked for their friend. If you implement a policy where kicked players stull get loot to prevent that, ppl will either purposefully try to get kicked, or the group itself will just wait around until you decide fuck it and leave.

    All of these situations worse than the current one
    Leaver gets no loot, joiner does. I’ll be honest though, it didn’t occur to me that it could be abused in the way you described. But isn’t it the same risk with raids and N/HC dungeons? I’d like to think people wouldn’t be that scummy, but such is life...

  11. #151
    There is no solution due to the simple fact, that there are many valid reasons to leave an m+ dungeon.
    But the issue was amplified by the reward structure of m+. I first thought, it would be incentivized to not leave dungeons due to the GV, but that is sadly not what is happening. Because it is likely that 1/5 people is already done with his GV, and wants loot. If you then wipe 3 times in the first 10 minutes, I understand someone not wanting to stay 30-40 more minutes for a 20% chance to get an item.
    In short, a partial solution would be to "punish" a failed run only with a key downgrade, and not with less loot. That would also make people who despise the timer happier.

    Well that is just my onion.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Flintty View Post
    Leaver gets no loot, joiner does. I’ll be honest though, it didn’t occur to me that it could be abused in the way you described. But isn’t it the same risk with raids and N/HC dungeons? I’d like to think people wouldn’t be that scummy, but such is life...
    I just dont trust ppl lol. I've had it happen in raids this xpac already. "Full clear " runs, get up to generals or sire and they kick most of the raid out.

    Right now they put the responsibility of M+ on the leader. Its up to the lead to decide who to invite and if someone leaves, that's the risk they took.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Flintty View Post
    Leaver gets no loot, joiner does. I’ll be honest though, it didn’t occur to me that it could be abused in the way you described. But isn’t it the same risk with raids and N/HC dungeons? I’d like to think people wouldn’t be that scummy, but such is life...
    And there is no way of abusing that, right? lol...
    If that happens, kicking someone can literally be worth over 1 million gold.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Gotcha. Cldve possibly been an innocent reason
    there is no innocent reason for leaving at last boss with enough time left to kill it. now if he had said something then find i'd have ignored him and moved on

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    there is no innocent reason for leaving at last boss with enough time left to kill it. now if he had said something then find i'd have ignored him and moved on
    And there is also no sensible reason for leaving at last boss (especially with enough time left to kill it).

  16. #156
    Well the way it is right now. Having to do 10 dungeons while getting very little loot makes me not wanna play alts anymore.

    Unless you have friends to run with it's just a big chore, takes many hours and is simply not fun to play the game.

  17. #157
    Fluffy Kitten Aurora's Avatar
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    A rating system would greatly improve the experience and give group leaders some indication if potential members are likely to be toxic, leave early etc.

    The whole idea of not doing something good for the game because a minority may abuse it shouldn't really be a consideration. Personally I don't feel like the vast majority of random people I play with are out to harm or inconvenience me for no reason whatsoever so any small number of troll ratings I received would be drowned out by genuine feedback.

  18. #158
    Scarab Lord Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawawe View Post
    Remember oQueue when you could rate people you pugged with. Those were the days.
    oQueue was indeed the best. We still don't have something equivalent for pvp or at least a seasonal achievement rating wipe so we don't get people "I was glad 2013".
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
    m8 i've been around since Feb 2005, I know it all.
    i outgrew the games playerbase.
    So I was using a gold dupe hack. I don't know why i was banned for this. It is so unfair.
    People need an incentive to play content. "Its fun!" is simply not enough.
    Btw iam multi glad so plz dont tell me how to play, kkthxbye

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemol View Post
    Easiest fix, is implementing a feature that is already in the game.

    #1 You cannot force people to stay in a key that they don't want to play.
    #2 You cannot design a system which punishes people for leaving without having side effects (If player leaves they get deserter buff - this would also apply to players being kicked = unfair).

    There are many more "solutions" people have come up with.

    The only solution which is somewhat fair is to activate an AI for the class / role of the player who LEFT (Not kicked).

    IE. Mage joins a key, leaves after first boss - AI would then become "Ghost of Mage" and continue to follow the group and use spells.
    This solution is already in the game and could easily be implemented in M+.

    Sure an AI isn't a real person, but it's better than being 4 people.
    AI Could be tweaked in a matter that reflects the playstyle of the average player with interrupts, ccs and such. (features which is already in the game).
    Or even a simpler solution would be “pause” the M+ AND the timer if someone leaves and give X time to leader to search a substitute/s. If you want to continue in less than 5 or end the run, click the nice buttons related to the two options.

    It’s as simple as that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
    A rating system would greatly improve the experience and give group leaders some indication if potential members are likely to be toxic, leave early etc.

    The whole idea of not doing something good for the game because a minority may abuse it shouldn't really be a consideration. Personally I don't feel like the vast majority of random people I play with are out to harm or inconvenience me for no reason whatsoever so any small number of troll ratings I received would be drowned out by genuine feedback.
    The only reliable feedback would be early leaving based (because it’s a “recordable by the game” action, even if not tracked now).

    Opinions about party members are too subjective.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    there is no innocent reason for leaving at last boss with enough time left to kill it. now if he had said something then find i'd have ignored him and moved on
    If I'm on last boss and my wife calls freaking the fuck out abt something, I'm logging off. Or if I hear a loud bang down stairs I'm stepping away. Or I smell smoke. Or literally any other IRL reason

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    And there is also no sensible reason for leaving at last boss (especially with enough time left to kill it).
    See above reasons

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
    A rating system would greatly improve the experience and give group leaders some indication if potential members are likely to be toxic, leave early etc.

    The whole idea of not doing something good for the game because a minority may abuse it shouldn't really be a consideration. Personally I don't feel like the vast majority of random people I play with are out to harm or inconvenience me for no reason whatsoever so any small number of troll ratings I received would be drowned out by genuine feedback.
    "You took a path different than the one I normally take, you get 0/5 rating from me"

    "You are survival hunter and I just noticed. 0/5"

    "You fucked up 1 single mechanic or i at least think you did. 0/5"

    I dont think a rating system would work very well.

    Just like yelp, ppl are only gonna bother to rate of its extremely good, or they mad abt something. Gonna be more perceived offenses than ppl taking the time to post good feedback for each individual in the group.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Or even a simpler solution would be “pause” the M+ AND the timer if someone leaves and give X time to leader to search a substitute/s. If you want to continue in less than 5 or end the run, click the nice buttons related to the two options.

    It’s as simple as that.

    - - - Updated - - -


    The only reliable feedback would be early leaving based (because it’s a “recordable by the game” action, even if not tracked now).

    Opinions about party members are too subjective.
    What if I left at the 20 minute mark because we wiped 7x on first boss? Would that still get tracked?

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