Solution for M+ leavers....

[Flintty]

Whilst you can’t fix people leaving, you can lessen the impact on those who are still there.

Allow backfilling of players when the timer has expired. Absolutely no reason not to.

[ellieg]

he didnt say a word for the entire run

Gotcha. Cldve possibly been an innocent reason

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If there's a harsh penalty (Like not able to use LFG for dungeon groups for a day) for leaving a m+ when the timer has not yet run out, it should make people care more about ruining someone else's key.

Not gonna make the key in time, don't want the leaver penalty. In this situation I could just afk and you'll be punished for leaving it

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Whilst you can’t fix people leaving, you can lessen the impact on those who are still there.

Allow backfilling of players when the timer has expired. Absolutely no reason not to.

Would the new player get the shot at loot, or would the player who left?

If new player does, then expect to clear til final boss and then get kicked for their friend. If you implement a policy where kicked players stull get loot to prevent that, ppl will either purposefully try to get kicked, or the group itself will just wait around until you decide fuck it and leave.

All of these situations worse than the current one

[Flintty]

Would the new player get the shot at loot, or would the player who left?

If new player does, then expect to clear til final boss and then get kicked for their friend. If you implement a policy where kicked players stull get loot to prevent that, ppl will either purposefully try to get kicked, or the group itself will just wait around until you decide fuck it and leave.

All of these situations worse than the current one

Leaver gets no loot, joiner does. I’ll be honest though, it didn’t occur to me that it could be abused in the way you described. But isn’t it the same risk with raids and N/HC dungeons? I’d like to think people wouldn’t be that scummy, but such is life...

[Nite92]

There is no solution due to the simple fact, that there are many valid reasons to leave an m+ dungeon.
But the issue was amplified by the reward structure of m+. I first thought, it would be incentivized to not leave dungeons due to the GV, but that is sadly not what is happening. Because it is likely that 1/5 people is already done with his GV, and wants loot. If you then wipe 3 times in the first 10 minutes, I understand someone not wanting to stay 30-40 more minutes for a 20% chance to get an item.
In short, a partial solution would be to "punish" a failed run only with a key downgrade, and not with less loot. That would also make people who despise the timer happier.

Well that is just my onion.

[ellieg]

Leaver gets no loot, joiner does. I’ll be honest though, it didn’t occur to me that it could be abused in the way you described. But isn’t it the same risk with raids and N/HC dungeons? I’d like to think people wouldn’t be that scummy, but such is life...

I just dont trust ppl lol. I've had it happen in raids this xpac already. "Full clear " runs, get up to generals or sire and they kick most of the raid out.

Right now they put the responsibility of M+ on the leader. Its up to the lead to decide who to invite and if someone leaves, that's the risk they took.

[Nite92]

Leaver gets no loot, joiner does. I’ll be honest though, it didn’t occur to me that it could be abused in the way you described. But isn’t it the same risk with raids and N/HC dungeons? I’d like to think people wouldn’t be that scummy, but such is life...

And there is no way of abusing that, right? lol...
If that happens, kicking someone can literally be worth over 1 million gold.

[thunderdragon2]

Gotcha. Cldve possibly been an innocent reason

there is no innocent reason for leaving at last boss with enough time left to kill it. now if he had said something then find i'd have ignored him and moved on

[Puri]

there is no innocent reason for leaving at last boss with enough time left to kill it. now if he had said something then find i'd have ignored him and moved on

And there is also no sensible reason for leaving at last boss (especially with enough time left to kill it).

[GnomeEU]

Well the way it is right now. Having to do 10 dungeons while getting very little loot makes me not wanna play alts anymore.

Unless you have friends to run with it's just a big chore, takes many hours and is simply not fun to play the game.

[Aurora]

A rating system would greatly improve the experience and give group leaders some indication if potential members are likely to be toxic, leave early etc.

The whole idea of not doing something good for the game because a minority may abuse it shouldn't really be a consideration. Personally I don't feel like the vast majority of random people I play with are out to harm or inconvenience me for no reason whatsoever so any small number of troll ratings I received would be drowned out by genuine feedback.

[chiddie]

Easiest fix, is implementing a feature that is already in the game.

#1 You cannot force people to stay in a key that they don't want to play.
#2 You cannot design a system which punishes people for leaving without having side effects (If player leaves they get deserter buff - this would also apply to players being kicked = unfair).

There are many more "solutions" people have come up with.

The only solution which is somewhat fair is to activate an AI for the class / role of the player who LEFT (Not kicked).

IE. Mage joins a key, leaves after first boss - AI would then become "Ghost of Mage" and continue to follow the group and use spells.
This solution is already in the game and could easily be implemented in M+.

Sure an AI isn't a real person, but it's better than being 4 people.
AI Could be tweaked in a matter that reflects the playstyle of the average player with interrupts, ccs and such. (features which is already in the game).

Or even a simpler solution would be “pause” the M+ AND the timer if someone leaves and give X time to leader to search a substitute/s. If you want to continue in less than 5 or end the run, click the nice buttons related to the two options.

It’s as simple as that.

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A rating system would greatly improve the experience and give group leaders some indication if potential members are likely to be toxic, leave early etc.

The whole idea of not doing something good for the game because a minority may abuse it shouldn't really be a consideration. Personally I don't feel like the vast majority of random people I play with are out to harm or inconvenience me for no reason whatsoever so any small number of troll ratings I received would be drowned out by genuine feedback.

The only reliable feedback would be early leaving based (because it’s a “recordable by the game” action, even if not tracked now).

Opinions about party members are too subjective.

[ellieg]

there is no innocent reason for leaving at last boss with enough time left to kill it. now if he had said something then find i'd have ignored him and moved on

If I'm on last boss and my wife calls freaking the fuck out abt something, I'm logging off. Or if I hear a loud bang down stairs I'm stepping away. Or I smell smoke. Or literally any other IRL reason

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And there is also no sensible reason for leaving at last boss (especially with enough time left to kill it).

See above reasons

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A rating system would greatly improve the experience and give group leaders some indication if potential members are likely to be toxic, leave early etc.

The whole idea of not doing something good for the game because a minority may abuse it shouldn't really be a consideration. Personally I don't feel like the vast majority of random people I play with are out to harm or inconvenience me for no reason whatsoever so any small number of troll ratings I received would be drowned out by genuine feedback.

"You took a path different than the one I normally take, you get 0/5 rating from me"

"You are survival hunter and I just noticed. 0/5"

"You fucked up 1 single mechanic or i at least think you did. 0/5"

I dont think a rating system would work very well.

Just like yelp, ppl are only gonna bother to rate of its extremely good, or they mad abt something. Gonna be more perceived offenses than ppl taking the time to post good feedback for each individual in the group.

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Or even a simpler solution would be “pause” the M+ AND the timer if someone leaves and give X time to leader to search a substitute/s. If you want to continue in less than 5 or end the run, click the nice buttons related to the two options.

It’s as simple as that.

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The only reliable feedback would be early leaving based (because it’s a “recordable by the game” action, even if not tracked now).

Opinions about party members are too subjective.

What if I left at the 20 minute mark because we wiped 7x on first boss? Would that still get tracked?

[thunderdragon2]

If I'm on last boss and my wife calls freaking the fuck out abt something, I'm logging off. Or if I hear a loud bang down stairs I'm stepping away. Or I smell smoke. Or literally any other IRL reason

still it takes like 10-15 seconds to type g2g irl issue, ppl would be fine with that, its when ppl just leave without saying a thing that i take issue with

[ellieg]

still it takes like 10-15 seconds to type g2g irl issue, ppl would be fine with that, its when ppl just leave without saying a thing that i take issue with

I feel u on that. I dont join groups unless I have the free time cleared away to complete it. But I've had things pop up where I dont have 15 secs to apologize

[unbound]

still it takes like 10-15 seconds to type g2g irl issue, ppl would be fine with that, its when ppl just leave without saying a thing that i take issue with

Agree in concept.

Disagree with 10-15 seconds...how slow do you type? :-)

[Aurora]

If I'm on last boss and my wife calls freaking the fuck out abt something, I'm logging off. Or if I hear a loud bang down stairs I'm stepping away. Or I smell smoke. Or literally any other IRL reason

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See above reasons

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"You took a path different than the one I normally take, you get 0/5 rating from me"

"You are survival hunter and I just noticed. 0/5"

"You fucked up 1 single mechanic or i at least think you did. 0/5"

I dont think a rating system would work very well.

Just like yelp, ppl are only gonna bother to rate of its extremely good, or they mad abt something. Gonna be more perceived offenses than ppl taking the time to post good feedback for each individual in the group.

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What if I left at the 20 minute mark because we wiped 7x on first boss? Would that still get tracked?

It's very easy to weight feedback based on the person's historic ratio of positive to negative feedback. If someone is that pedantic and dishing out negative scores for every little imperfection then their negative feedback won't move the needle very much.

[erifwodahs]

And there is also no sensible reason for leaving at last boss (especially with enough time left to kill it).

I mean.... I had to step out to help a non responsive neighbor...
-Can you help, my wife is on the floor not responsive.
-Can you wait? I'm busy here you know.

That was one. The other time few years ago, police jumped into my garden trying to catch someone.
-KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK, Police here.
-Can you wait 5minutes?

Kid decided to put some plastic in the toaster. - Strong smell of burning plastic
-It can wait 5mins...

Do you even live in real world? There are a lot of very valid reasons to jump off the pc, even tho most of them happen very rarely.

[chiddie]

If I'm on last boss and my wife calls freaking the fuck out abt something, I'm logging off. Or if I hear a loud bang down stairs I'm stepping away. Or I smell smoke. Or literally any other IRL reason

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See above reasons

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"You took a path different than the one I normally take, you get 0/5 rating from me"

"You are survival hunter and I just noticed. 0/5"

"You fucked up 1 single mechanic or i at least think you did. 0/5"

I dont think a rating system would work very well.

Just like yelp, ppl are only gonna bother to rate of its extremely good, or they mad abt something. Gonna be more perceived offenses than ppl taking the time to post good feedback for each individual in the group.

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What if I left at the 20 minute mark because we wiped 7x on first boss? Would that still get tracked?

The reason of course cannot be tracked.

But if I see you left let’s say 10 dungeons out of 100 done I have enough neurons to guess that those 10 were going horribly wrong and you’re not a “first bad pull leaver” by any meaning.

[Puri]

I mean.... I had to step out to help a non responsive neighbor...
-Can you help, my wife is on the floor not responsive.
-Can you wait? I'm busy here you know.

That was one. The other time few years ago, police jumped into my garden trying to catch someone.
-KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK, Police here.
-Can you wait 5minutes?

Kid decided to put some plastic in the toaster. - Strong smell of burning plastic
-It can wait 5mins...

Do you even live in real world? There are a lot of very valid reasons to jump off the pc, even tho most of them happen very rarely.

See above reasons

Since this is not quite clear from my wording, just to clarify: No sensible game related reason.

[Fearlof]

I don't think there has to be a solution for this, as I see it I should be allowed to leave if people fail on stupid shit over and over, why do people expect me to come prepared knowing pull routes and percentages and shit when they can't even handle bombs in DoS...