Solution for M+ leavers....

[rrayy]

my having done 5 keys on +14... 2 keys +15... 1 key on +13... that puts me in the top 500 holy priests in the world out of 92000 holy priests that have done m+... most people are shit at playing the game...

So all you did is basically call anyone below you shit which is an arbitrary opinion. That is not how that works at all. Unless you know personally the majority of players, you cannot in anyway say most players are shit.

[ydraw]

Would not a "hey I'm looking to time this, but if we won't I'd like to still complete. Everyone okay with that?" suffice? I've said that on keys that I think may be difficult (+14 tyrannical SD) and I've never had anyone leave after that

I have

Happens all the time. "sorry last attempt for me guys". After 2 wipes.

Happened to me last week in a 13 mists key. Advertised it for completion. Wiped on the first boss at something like 5% because one of the DPS did not switch back to Droman. Tank left.

[rrayy]

most people can't even do +10... they are shit at playing the game...

Prove it. All you are doing is making stuff up. Onice again, an arbitrary opinion without any substance.

[thunderdragon2]

Prove it. All you are doing is making stuff up. Onice again, an arbitrary opinion without any substance.

sorry m8 but hes right i can no longer count the amount of ppl in the 8-10 section that have no clue what their interrupt or cc are and these are people that have enough score to be in said grp sadly....

hunters that dont know what counter shot tranquilising sho and binding shot are...
druid that dont know what soothe and skull bash are...
and dh tanks that cant kite...
as well as locks that dont use their fel puppy for interrupting or use shadow furry.

your move m8

[Low Hanging Fruit]

sorry m8 but hes right i can no longer count the amount of ppl in the 8-10 section that have no clue what their interrupt or cc are and these are people that have enough score to be in said grp sadly....

hunters that dont know what counter shot tranquilising sho and binding shot are...
druid that dont know what soothe and skull bash are...
and dh tanks that cant kite...
as well as locks that dont use their fel puppy for interrupting or use shadow furry.

your move m8

Got to agree with you. I also noticed a key bracket is the exact 10. When you see someone posting an exact 10 key it's like 9 times out of 10 a signal for "I need carry". You have done that instance at 15 already? Your IO is 1300ish? You like 215 item level? Sorry mate.. looking for someone that knows what they doin. So you go into another key like.. alright.. then when you finish up that key you see that guy still looking for a group with like his 10 other 10 key holder clones doing the same thing in the finder.

[thunderdragon2]

Got to agree with you. I also noticed a key bracket is the exact 10. When you see someone posting an exact 10 key it's like 9 times out of 10 a signal for "I need carry". You have done that instance at 15 already? Your IO is 1300ish? You like 215 item level? Sorry mate.. looking for someone that knows what they doin. So you go into another key like.. alright.. then when you finish up that key you see that guy still looking for a group with like his 10 other 10 key holder clones doing the same thing in the finder.

yeh i tend to avoid those unless i need a key for weekly but more often the 1st one to leave a key is the 1 failing and dieing alot

[ayako]

I honestly think outright banning systems like r.io is the way to go if you want to fix this.

The PuG community will be less toxic.
The serious Mythic+ players (established groups) won't be affected.

I know that r.io feeds off of data made freely available by Blizzard, and there probably is a way to block its use.

It's up to groups to take chances on people without proven metrics that they like. Even if RIO was banned people would look up logs/do something else. Do you really want to waste 30 minutes on a failed run because you took a chance on someone that has zero experience with no way to check?

[Ragnarohk]

It's up to groups to take chances on people without proven metrics that they like. Even if RIO was banned people would look up logs/do something else. Do you really want to waste 30 minutes on a failed run because you took a chance on someone that has zero experience with no way to check?

I honestly rather waste 30mins teaching somebody a mechanic than 30minutes because an elitist decided to jump ship mid-way through the instance because of a wipe.

[Zig Zug]

I honestly rather waste 30mins teaching somebody a mechanic than 30minutes because an elitist decided to jump ship mid-way through the instance because of a wipe.

Well, that's not a waste - that's just a good person improving a community.

Prove it. All you are doing is making stuff up. Onice again, an arbitrary opinion without any substance.

Are you serious?

raider.io/ mythic-plus-character-rankings/season-sl-1/world/priest/all

^ literal proof.

[Tziva]

Can we drop the bickering about what percentage of the player population is bad and what constitutes bad? At best, it's offtopic but frankly when everyone is arguing by different metrics, it's also pointless.

[thunderdragon2]

Can we drop the bickering about what percentage of the player population is bad and what constitutes bad? At best, it's offtopic but frankly when everyone is arguing by different metrics, it's also pointless.

i disagree at that remark, that is on topic as its one of the main reason people leave m+, when someone in the grp gets pissy a lack of interrupts then the meter is linked for interrupts and that guy is at the bottom 9 times out of ten they will bail on the group

same thing goes for lack of dmg on a certain target or dispels

alot of people in keys dont know about and dont use them and imo that makes them bad, sorry but if you are signing for a +8 or 10 i expect you to know your toolkit, your 800-1k io means nothing to me if you aren't using the tools you have available

[callipygoustp]

It always cracks me up that in a topic about toxic players people suggest that random players (which would include the toxic players being discussed) should be involved in policing the community. Great suggestion. Good stuff.

...cause of course toxic players won't be toxic when they are responsible for making the community better.

[rrayy]

Well, that's not a waste - that's just a good person improving a community.



Are you serious?

raider.io/ mythic-plus-character-rankings/season-sl-1/world/priest/all

^ literal proof.

No it isn't because you still have to state what is good and is not good. Therefore, you are making an arbitrary standard so you can claim you are right. That is not "literally proof".

- - - Updated - - -

sorry m8 but hes right i can no longer count the amount of ppl in the 8-10 section that have no clue what their interrupt or cc are and these are people that have enough score to be in said grp sadly....

hunters that dont know what counter shot tranquilising sho and binding shot are...
druid that dont know what soothe and skull bash are...
and dh tanks that cant kite...
as well as locks that dont use their fel puppy for interrupting or use shadow furry.

your move m8

No they are not. Your cherry picked examples do not = a majiroty of players. And they are making their entitre claim on an aribitrary standard with no actual data to back it up. By your logic, there are players who have had nothing but but good experiences meaning the majority of players are good. Doesn't work that way either.

- - - Updated - - -

the data is there on rio...

But you set an arbitrary standard of what is good and bad. That data doesn't tell you what is good or bad. You set it. Show me actual proof, not data you spun via an arbitrary standard without substance.

[thunderdragon2]

No it isn't because you still have to state what is good and is not good. Therefore, you are making an arbitrary standard so you can claim you are right. That is not "literally proof".

- - - Updated - - -

No they are not. Your cherry picked examples do not = a majiroty of players. And they are making their entitre claim on an aribitrary standard with no actual data to back it up. By your logic, there are players who have had nothing but but good experiences meaning the majority of players are good. Doesn't work that way either.

- - - Updated - - -

But you set an arbitrary standard of what is good and bad. That data doesn't tell you what is good or bad. You set it. Show me actual proof, not data you spun via an arbitrary standard without substance.

i haven't cherry picked anything that is literally the kind of people i'm dealing with when my key is in that 8-10 bracket wither it's on my main or my bear main alt

[Loveliest]

That reminds me of the times where you'd be id saved and wouldn't be able to do another instance of it. But this punished your whole group and people would be EXTREMELY picky about who they would do instances with.
Dunno, I'm actually curious how we could fix players. In recent years, players acts as every man for himself and don't give much crap about making friends, being part of a community or the like. They drop guild or group or anything when something doesn't sit well, it's so common to see a player who jumped 30 guilds in the past year.

So this? I have friends who feel like they want to uninstall the game because of people dropping M+ groups. I'd love a solution for them but... you can't fix people I think. Game changed from doing to having, it's no longer about having fun and playing, it's about getting something and doing whatever you need for that.

[Jimmyw]

there really no solution other than putting that person on ignore and moving on. I do around 15-20m+ a week and maybe only 3 out of those have a leaver.

[erifwodahs]

No they’re not. As someone who pugs as a tank, my rating would be absolute shit because everyone blames the tank. If I switched and healed everyone would be fine, because healing m+ is about 15x easier than tanking it right now.

How is this thread still going by the way? There’s obviously nothing Blizz can do other than change how keystones work.

Same. Short story: A healer left yesterday in DOS +15 last boss mid fight when a dps failed to kill the totem and we only had 1minute left which meant that we would not time it. So instead of killing the boss and getting a new key + a weekly count for vault he just left because apparently we were all shit and not worth another 1 minute of his time. My blood boiled there for a minute.
He was doing 3k overall healing, I was doing 1.5k plus a paladin was using WoGs to help out and while dps really used his CDs on a pull (fail) the healer was really not in the position to call someone bad. Because I was mad I would have rated him 1, tho he was not that bad, just below average and he would have rated me 1 too. Rating would be way more subjective than a rating which you are assigned by third party without any interest in the matter.

[rrayy]

i haven't cherry picked anything that is literally the kind of people i'm dealing with when my key is in that 8-10 bracket wither it's on my main or my bear main alt

That is cherry picking. You took the couple of ppeopl eyou play with and claim that is the majority. As I said, another player could have absolutely no issue. By thelogic you use, that means the majority are good players. You see why that logic doesn't work? Anicdotal data does not = majority.

[thunderdragon2]

That is cherry picking. You took the couple of ppeopl eyou play with and claim that is the majority. As I said, another player could have absolutely no issue. By thelogic you use, that means the majority are good players. You see why that logic doesn't work? Anicdotal data does not = majority.

do you see the issue with your logic, at this point the "good people" arent in the 8-10 category any longer they are in a higher bracket, so my point still stands.

because i still have under 800 score i wont get taken to 11s and 12s so i'm stuck in the 8-10s with people that don't know what they are doing till i luck out and time a key i need to increase my score

[Zig Zug]

No it isn't because you still have to state what is good and is not good. Therefore, you are making an arbitrary standard so you can claim you are right. That is not "literally proof".

Hide behind the semantics of "context" and not actually address the issue that the overwhelming majority of players lack the skill, class understanding and ability to consistent clear +10 Mythic dungeons in random pick up groups.

I'll play along.

Lets call the upper 51% good, the lower 49% bad.

No?

Or we can call the upper 30% good, the lower 70% bad.

Ok how about the lowest keystones cleared for a server?

Or the % of players with AoTC?

No?

Hmm...how about MoP/WoD CM Modes?

No?

Mage tower?

No?

What about 16 years of playing this game, and confidently stating the average player is a mediocre player at best, and those who invest the energy into learning will become better. The latter group being a small fraction of players?

No?

Ah, you just want to feel right, despite a massive body of evidence that has been conveniently organized for you. Yes, its a body of evidence. If you're not sure how to process it to determine where you stack up, not sure what to tell you.


I guess the whole "Fake news" defense still works.