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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Yes, try to lose about 250 rio, retry and see what happens.

    I’m being declined for +14 with 1100 rio as resto shaman, can only imagine what happens to poor dps. This week is probably an anomaly because of shietty tyr affix but if this is the trend I will probably have to buy boosts to get to KSM.

    I tried to get an invite for a HoA 14 for the last 3 days with zero success apart one (failed thanks to ppl with 3k dps). Apart from chill runs or ppl with 800 rio trying to run a 14 (no, thanks) it’s getting really difficult to find groups, even as healer, when you get near 15.
    Every pug struggles to push past 1100 and the only answer is have a set group or push your own key. Wait 5 extra mins and form a good group. You arent getting invited because higher ppl are queuing. Post your own key and invite those higher ppl.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I agree but in tyr weeks things can go pretty bad from one moment to another. You can manage mobs somehow but bosses last so long that sooner or later someone will die to some mechanics.
    Make sure to bring 1 to 2 classes with a brez. As healer, give them higher priority than the other classes to keep alive.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    yeah - "you did it" - players who are in what ? top 1% of wow players.

    now you extrapolate your resoults on general playerbase ?

    thats like me saying that you shoudl bench press 120 kg in series without breaking a sweat because i and plenty other people around world have no problem to do so .
    I agree, but you shouldn't expect doing what 1% players do(e.g. 14-15 M+ keys) if you aren't commiting yourself to be that 1%.

    So saying that he did 120 kg Bench Press(because he was training), you should also train to do that - is totally logical thing to say.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I agree but in tyr weeks things can go pretty bad from one moment to another. You can manage mobs somehow but bosses last so long that sooner or later someone will die to some mechanics.
    Almost perfect gameplay for me would be tyrannical Hakkaar - people don't use anything for first shield, but are killing adds before shield to allow good respawn times before next shield, then repeat for second shield and for third shield kill adds plus start rotation DRs + immunities to reduce shields. You could also do good add CC and healing/consums usage to make it "perfect".

    If boss is slow on dying in +14-+15 with 210-215 gear and people start dying, it's far for even "good" gameplay, not even talking about almost perfect. I guess I am arguing semantics here, but the point is - people should not deflect the blame on something barely relevant in comparison to something what makes most of the difference. I.E. doing those 154-15s with 210-215ilvl it's like 80% in your hands (how well you play) while when doing 24 key, it's 50% your hands 50% what class/spec you play/RNG and so on. (not actual numbers, just making a point)

  4. #604
    the solution is simple, dont be bad and dont inv bads and nobody will leave your keys.

    if you do a PF for exaple inv that 1000 score DH who did 150 PF keys cuz he needs 2 trinkets and a offhand form that godforsaken place over a 1500 score WL he will know every mob by name and birthdate and most likely dont fail.
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2021-04-12 at 10:37 AM.
    I.O BFA Season 3


  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Almost perfect gameplay for me would be tyrannical Hakkaar - people don't use anything for first shield, but are killing adds before shield to allow good respawn times before next shield, then repeat for second shield and for third shield kill adds plus start rotation DRs + immunities to reduce shields. You could also do good add CC and healing/consums usage to make it "perfect".

    If boss is slow on dying in +14-+15 with 210-215 gear and people start dying, it's far for even "good" gameplay, not even talking about almost perfect. I guess I am arguing semantics here, but the point is - people should not deflect the blame on something barely relevant in comparison to something what makes most of the difference. I.E. doing those 154-15s with 210-215ilvl it's like 80% in your hands (how well you play) while when doing 24 key, it's 50% your hands 50% what class/spec you play/RNG and so on. (not actual numbers, just making a point)
    The problem is that due to ultra lazy game design, EVERY freaking boss (if not every, 90%) has a freaking unavoidable dots cheap mechanic (or more than one) that the long the combat lasts, the more will kill people. That’s why I hate tyr weeks.

    I don’t know for how much time I will be able to tolerate this type of mechanics. Maybe I’m too used to Souls but the “kill him fast or you won’t be able to outheal his damage” gameplay is really meh.

    Take 3rd SD boss for example: you eat balls but damage is huge anyways. You then start healing but after few seconds you have to start dodging bad stuff on ground and cannot heal. Then you continue healing but before you can full ppl another balls eating phase begins. People take even more damage because they are not full, you start healing again but you have again to start dodging ground stuff... after the third balls cycle either the boss is dead or it’s a wipe. This is stupid design imho.
    Last edited by chiddie; 2021-04-12 at 11:17 AM.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Every pug struggles to push past 1100 and the only answer is have a set group or push your own key. Wait 5 extra mins and form a good group. You arent getting invited because higher ppl are queuing. Post your own key and invite those higher ppl.

    .
    Agreed; on both accounts -- When people get to 1100 they think they're good enough to get invited to 15s - but they're going against the 1600-1700+ IO 226 people now for a spot in 14s(for weekly loot) and 15s.

    Make your own - people really won't care that you're 1100 (or else they wouldn't have queued) - and indeed, wait an extra 5 mins, rather than taking the first people that queue: there will be a lot of fish in the sea, as long as you're not doing like Sanguine Depths lol.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    Agreed; on both accounts -- When people get to 1100 they think they're good enough to get invited to 15s - but they're going against the 1600-1700+ IO 226 people now for a spot in 14s(for weekly loot) and 15s.

    Make your own - people really won't care that you're 1100 (or else they wouldn't have queued) - and indeed, wait an extra 5 mins, rather than taking the first people that queue: there will be a lot of fish in the sea, as long as you're not doing like Sanguine Depths lol.
    Having all dungeons at 14 roughly awards 1160 rio.

    Of course ppl with that rio expect to be invited in 15, it’s the next step, how else are they supposed to improve rio if they have already everything at 14?

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    The problem is that due to ultra lazy game design, EVERY freaking boss (if not every, 90%) has a freaking unavoidable dots cheap mechanic (or more than one) that the long the combat lasts, the more will kill people. That’s why I hate tyr weeks.
    I love mechanics which reward you and make the fight work rather than kill you - i.e. dmg buff which you get if you do something correctly so rather than boss punishing you (killing you) and making things harder, if you fail you just take longer to do everything. There is a bit of that in the expansions tbh - weapons in NW, ToP lich boss, using stun on the boss in DoS and so on.
    On the other hand...
    I am sorry mate but this is hard to take from you personally, as you have several times stated that you have been dying on PF last boss and on second boss in SoA to avoidable mechanics. Currently it's quite a good balance between avoidable mechanics and unavoidable (not saying that tuning is exactly alright tho). If they added more avoidable mechanics it wouldn't fix the problem plus avoidable mechanics has to be more punishable so you actually want to avoid them.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    I love mechanics which reward you and make the fight work rather than kill you - i.e. dmg buff which you get if you do something correctly so rather than boss punishing you (killing you) and making things harder, if you fail you just take longer to do everything. There is a bit of that in the expansions tbh - weapons in NW, ToP lich boss, using stun on the boss in DoS and so on.
    On the other hand...
    I am sorry mate but this is hard to take from you personally, as you have several times stated that you have been dying on PF last boss and on second boss in SoA to avoidable mechanics. Currently it's quite a good balance between avoidable mechanics and unavoidable (not saying that tuning is exactly alright tho). If they added more avoidable mechanics it wouldn't fix the problem plus avoidable mechanics has to be more punishable so you actually want to avoid them.
    I was talking about dots/aoe specifically, not avoidable mechanics.

    Dots cannot be avoided. Shiet that does aoe damage regardless where you are positioned cannot be avoided. For me it’s a crappy mechanic, sorry, there’s not much to debate, you like it or you don’t.

    Stradama tentacles or Ventunax balls are a “personal” issues of course, dots and aoe are not.

    At least I improved a lot with Gorechop hooks (now I can avoid them) and Stitchflesh arrow (now i position it the right way). Also I die less at ToP black wind platforms XD.
    Last edited by chiddie; 2021-04-12 at 01:55 PM.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    how else are they supposed to improve rio if they have already everything at 14?
    We just told you. Run your own key.

    15s give 210s that ppl want for valor upgrades. Along with 14s, it also gives best vault reward. Ppl also want it for ksm, like u. This is the most competitive key to get into. Most dps, especially off meta, struggled thru hour long wait times or flat out denial all the way up to this point. Something that has been minimized for you as a healer. Now you are in the same boat as them. And the only solution is run your own key. Get a 15 that's not something you "need"? Run it anyway to pad the number of dungeons 15+ completed for rio. Hopefully 16 is something you need. If not, run that for the rio. Keep it up and delevel any keys above 16. You'll be done in no time.

    When I run my keys there's no way in hell I'm inviting a 1100 sham with 213 or whatever ilvl you are. I can find one with 1500+ and 220+ ilvl if I wait an extra minute. No desire to take a chance on you when I want an easy clear

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Dots cannot be avoided. Shiet that does aoe damage regardless where you are positioned cannot be avoided. For me it’s a crappy mechanic, sorry, there’s not much to debate, you like it or you don’t.
    yeah, but with what do you replace the mechanic then? non dots? Dots are more healable than one shot hits when it comes to high end scaling.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    We just told you. Run your own key.

    15s give 210s that ppl want for valor upgrades. Along with 14s, it also gives best vault reward. Ppl also want it for ksm, like u. This is the most competitive key to get into. Most dps, especially off meta, struggled thru hour long wait times or flat out denial all the way up to this point. Something that has been minimized for you as a healer. Now you are in the same boat as them. And the only solution is run your own key. Get a 15 that's not something you "need"? Run it anyway to pad the number of dungeons 15+ completed for rio. Hopefully 16 is something you need. If not, run that for the rio. Keep it up and delevel any keys above 16. You'll be done in no time.

    When I run my keys there's no way in hell I'm inviting a 1100 sham with 213 or whatever ilvl you are. I can find one with 1500+ and 220+ ilvl if I wait an extra minute. No desire to take a chance on you when I want an easy clear
    I will probably end doing my keys sooner or later, yes. Not happy with the solution because I have to time also a hella lot of 14 I don’t need at all, but I guess it’s better than nothing.

  13. #613
    You won’t stop mythic quitters until the punishment is more severe.

    Make it so when you quit, you can’t queue up for a m+ for another day. If you quit again within a month, a week. If you quit a third time, you can’t join a m+ for a month

    Right now, you can just quit and wait it out without any repercussions and people jump on that.

    Blizzard could solve this overnight but they can’t do it without being heavy handed and setting some examples out of some people

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You won’t stop mythic quitters until the punishment is more severe.

    Make it so when you quit, you can’t queue up for a m+ for another day. If you quit again within a month, a week. If you quit a third time, you can’t join a m+ for a month

    Right now, you can just quit and wait it out without any repercussions and people jump on that.

    Blizzard could solve this overnight but they can’t do it without being heavy handed and setting some examples out of some people
    That is not a solution. That is, hands down, the worst suggestion I've ever seen on this website. Congratulations, I guess.

  15. #615
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    If people stop messing up and dying to dumb shit, I won't have a reason to leave their keys. I don't have time to spend hours carrying someone else's key. Maybe if this was Legion, sure, but I don't have that kind of patience anymore.

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    lol... then they should permaban any people underperforming... die to tentacles? permaban... don't run in to stun on manastorm? permaban... die to not taking portal on muehzala? permaban...

    doing far less than what you sim in dps? permaban...
    It is not comparable to quitting a M+ in progress and ruining it for the 4 others. Not even close.

    Also, notice i didn't say they SHOULD do this, i said that quitting won't stop until the punishment outweights the crime (quitting). Right now, there is absolutely no punishment for quitting, incentivizing people to leave if it isn't going well, which screws 4 other people over.

    Selfish behavior in games is only stopped by heavy handed punishment.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You won’t stop mythic quitters until the punishment is more severe.

    Make it so when you quit, you can’t queue up for a m+ for another day. If you quit again within a month, a week. If you quit a third time, you can’t join a m+ for a month

    Right now, you can just quit and wait it out without any repercussions and people jump on that.

    Blizzard could solve this overnight but they can’t do it without being heavy handed and setting some examples out of some people
    From game design perspective you should not punish the leaver - you should prevent rest of the group being punished for the action of the leaver, so for example allow people to pause the key and search for a new player (this is just an example, not actual idea).

    If the leaver is desperate - he will leave, no matter what "punishment" awaits for him, this still ends up with 4 other people's run wasted

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You won’t stop mythic quitters until the punishment is more severe.

    Make it so when you quit, you can’t queue up for a m+ for another day. If you quit again within a month, a week. If you quit a third time, you can’t join a m+ for a month

    Right now, you can just quit and wait it out without any repercussions and people jump on that.

    Blizzard could solve this overnight but they can’t do it without being heavy handed and setting some examples out of some people
    Majority of ppl leave because other players are not performing well enough. I only do keys for vault so idc if they don't get timed. I waot until multiple wipes when its obvious ot probably can't be completed at all. Had a nw yesterday with 5 wipes on 2nd boss. 2 tries with lust, all spears gone, couldn't get below 20%. I left. I shldnt be punished for that

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Majority of ppl leave because other players are not performing well enough. I only do keys for vault so idc if they don't get timed. I waot until multiple wipes when its obvious ot probably can't be completed at all. Had a nw yesterday with 5 wipes on 2nd boss. 2 tries with lust, all spears gone, couldn't get below 20%. I left. I shldnt be punished for that
    I don't want people to be punished, and i barely even run M+ this expac. I was only pointing out that people will always leave when it goes tits up, without a punishment against it. And if the punishment is a big meh, people won't care.

    But if they go TOO heavy handed, they'll lose people so its tough

  20. #620
    RaiderIO is the only one that can fix this or Blizzard breaking the API to stop such services from working. If they would just track unfinished dungeons (I know it's not possible atm) you would see a frequent leaver have them in the 100s and not invite them for anything.

    They could also give more score for just finishing dungeons instead of just for timing them.

    Blizzard could also do things to help the people having their keys ruined by leavers.

    I think they should at least do something so that running your own key and having some dickhead leave after one wipe doesn't downgrade the key. If you could just run the same key level until you upgrade it would be much better overall. It could still downgrade on reset day if you didn't time the same lvl key like now.

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