Solution for M+ leavers....

[Lathspell]

So only the first person to leave gets the unfinished mark on their record? Not the other 4 unless they kick them? What's stopping them from just going afk?

No everyone would get it if the dungeon is unfinished. The thing is that if you are one of the people who joins a key for 5-15 mins and leaves you would get many many more over time than someone who always tries to finish no matter what. Then you could look at applicants with:

Timed +15 runs 50
Unfinished 15 runs 250


Timed +15 runs 50
Not timed +15 runs 225
Unfinished 15 runs 25

Who would you pick? I suppose someone will think that the guy with only timed 15's is better.

[reemi]

The player who want to leave should be able to be replaced.

It can be a solution.

Exemple 1:
Warlock want to leave, he accept he will be replace.
Warlock quit
You can now invite a replacement and will be summoned near you.

Exemple 2:
Warlock is kicked.
He didnt accepted to be replaced.
You cant invite a replacement.

Exemple 3:
Warlock is afk since 5 minutes or more.
You can invite a replacement.

[Lathspell]

The player who want to leave should be able to be replaced.

It can be a solution.

Exemple 1:
Warlock want to leave, he accept he will be replace.
Warlock quit
You can now invite a replacement and will be summoned near you.

Exemple 2:
Warlock is kicked.
He didnt accepted to be replaced.
You cant invite a replacement.

Exemple 3:
Warlock is afk since 5 minutes or more.
You can invite a replacement.

Would be great for boosting for sure... 5 man the dungeon to last boss, have one guy leave and invite carry in. Profit.

[Minikin]

the solution is simple, dont be bad and dont inv bads and nobody will leave your keys.

if you do a PF for exaple inv that 1000 score DH who did 150 PF keys cuz he needs 2 trinkets and a offhand form that godforsaken place over a 1500 score WL he will know every mob by name and birthdate and most likely dont fail.

While I'm not that high on keys I do agree with this approach.

In my own example (super casual, only two mythics run in the last two weeks, io 994, highest key +13), there are certain dungeons that I am crazy comfy with cuz I've been spamming them. Like I can run PF and SD blindfolded but I hate going to to SoA and DoS. Comparitively I've run about 15 of SD and PF but only 2 of SoA and DoS.

[Aggressive]

yet i have no problems getting invites... playing retri, frost dk or bm hunter alts... no problems getting invites as shadow either if i am doing my weekly keys...

Then Count yourself lucky cause that is what I am calling it.

[chiddie]

Absolutely nothing. Just like every "solution" ppl come up with, it will lead to more toxicity. The only good solution is to make friends, join a guild, and actually communicate with the ppl you are running with. Wont work every time but will drastically improve your quality of runs

...or getting rid of the timer (either removing it or making it more friendly).

There HAS to be something else to measure “skill” besides a timer.

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Would be great for boosting for sure... 5 man the dungeon to last boss, have one guy leave and invite carry in. Profit.

This would work for loot of last boss (or specific bosses) and nothing else since for the key to be valid you need all bosses down and mob %.

It would be surely a happy party for guilds that carry guildies but in pug it would not work.

[ellieg]

...or getting rid of the timer (either removing it or making it more friendly).

There HAS to be something else to measure “skill” besides a timer.

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This would work for loot of last boss (or specific bosses) and nothing else since for the key to be valid you need all bosses down and mob %.

It would be surely a happy party for guilds that carry guildies but in pug it would not work.

The entire difficulty is based on the timer. If you dont like the timer, you should petition for a separate challenge mode instead of removing the content a ton of players like.

None of the pulls are hard with every single cd up. Part of the skill of m+ is knowing when to use which ones. Not fun just waiting on cds to do content too difficult for you when timed

[anon5123]

It's pretty simple, really:

Leave a group while the timer is still going? 24 hour debuff preventing you from doing another key. And make it visible to other players so other people can see you're an asshole who leaves. Bring back server community and social responsibility like vanilla has.

But then won't people just /afk at the entrance and wait for the timer to run out? Plenty of ways to check for non-participation, like looking at amount of damage/healing done, distance from the rest of the group, etc.

[Relapses]

But then won't people just /afk at the entrance and wait for the timer to run out? Plenty of ways to check for non-participation, like looking at amount of damage/healing done, distance from the rest of the group, etc.

Or -- hear me out here -- instead of inventing new systems to monitor player behavior that are inherently prone to abuse Blizzard doesn't do anything because this isn't their problem to fix.

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...or getting rid of the timer (either removing it or making it more friendly).

There HAS to be something else to measure “skill” besides a timer.

Yes, it's called "finding a new game to play" instead of demanding to speak to Blizzard's manager and have them fix a social issue they have no business intervening in.

[Azerox]

Imo remove the timers and keep that for mdi.
If you want to practice that you can, but it will take off alot of pressure.

[chiddie]

Or -- hear me out here -- instead of inventing new systems to monitor player behavior that are inherently prone to abuse Blizzard doesn't do anything because this isn't their problem to fix.

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Yes, it's called "finding a new game to play" instead of demanding to speak to Blizzard's manager and have them fix a social issue they have no business intervening in.

So the only way to measure skill in rpgs is a timer? Really?

I’m not convinced. Oh and the social issue is caused by Blizzard itself. No other mmorpg has so many whines about endgame structure. It can’t be always players’ fault.

The gap between ppl that can do guild runs and ppl who can’t for whatever reason is just too huge.

I don’t care that much, I know that having to pug 100% I will take ages to get KSM no matter my skill, but it’s an issue indeed.

[Relapses]

So the only way to measure skill in rpgs is a timer? Really?

Wrong. Please re-read my post, that's not what I said. The only way to measure skill in M+ is the timer. If you don't like the timer, find a game that doesn't have timed dungeons instead of complaining that Blizzard doesn't design the game around your singular voice.

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Imo remove the timers and keep that for mdi.
If you want to practice that you can, but it will take off alot of pressure.

Yes, I too will enjoy pulling 7 groups with cooldowns then waiting 8 minutes to do it again. This sounds like fun and exciting game play. Where do I sign u-

...fuck, I fell asleep typing that. Sorry.

[Alroxas]

It's pretty simple, really:

Actually no it's not otherwise we would have had a solution by now. We are in the 3rd xpac that has M+ and yet we still don't have a Blizzard solution for M+ leavers so obviously it's not a simple problem.

Bring back server community and social responsibility like vanilla has.

The only way this works is if you remove the anonymity of group finder. Basically if you put someone on /ignore, it has to change to ignoring that ENTIRE account and not just 1 toon. This way, a character's rep suddenly becomes important because if enough people put you on /ignore then that's fewer people those bad/toxic players are able to group with.

Leave a group while the timer is still going? 24 hour debuff preventing you from doing another key. And make it visible to other players so other people can see you're an asshole who leaves. But then won't people just /afk at the entrance and wait for the timer to run out? Plenty of ways to check for non-participation, like looking at amount of damage/healing done, distance from the rest of the group, etc.

Lol. So what if I do "participate" but in a negative way? Let me go ahead and pull that extra 3 packs for the tank. Let me go ahead and NOT heal the tank but pump serious healing into myself (or aggro target that's not the tank) so on the meters I look amazing. Let me as a tank not pick up aggro that I dropped via Divine Shield or some other immunity. Basically do everything and anything that still shows me as "participating" but forcing someone else to leave the group first so they get the "debuff" but I can then quit safely without being affected.

Quite a simple solution indeed... Or we can take Ion's suggestion: M+ is meant for groups of players who are either friends or guildmates so that there already exists a social contract that can penalize bad/toxic players.

But my PuG? Hey this is a MMO, go make friends. If you want to solo the game, there are plenty of RPGs that are solo-based (i.e. Skyrim, Witcher, etc).

[chiddie]

Wrong. Please re-read my post, that's not what I said. The only way to measure skill in M+ is the timer. If you don't like the timer, find a game that doesn't have timed dungeons instead of complaining that Blizzard doesn't design the game around your singular voice.

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Yes, I too will enjoy pulling 7 groups with cooldowns then waiting 8 minutes to do it again. This sounds like fun and exciting game play. Where do I sign u-

...fuck, I fell asleep typing that. Sorry.

I never said I don’t like the timer, I was only thinking about finding something else and give that a try. Because it’s clear that 99% of M+ issues are caused by the timer.

[clevin]

At 1345, I get almost instant invites into 14 15s as a frost dk.

Of course you do. If you get your IO up high enough, you're fine. It's the slog to do that which is painful for some specs. What do you need to do to get a high IO? Do lots of keys, right?* But if you're playing a spec that makes it hard to get lots of invites.... I'll leave the rest as and exercise to the reader.



*and move their level up and time them, but...

[Twdft]

The only way this works is if you remove the anonymity of group finder. Basically if you put someone on /ignore, it has to change to ignoring that ENTIRE account and not just 1 toon.

That's already happening. /ignore a friend and tell him to /whisper you with an alt.

[clevin]

...Or we can take Ion's suggestion: M+ is meant for groups of players who are either friends or guildmates so that there already exists a social contract that can penalize bad/toxic players.

But my PuG? Hey this is a MMO, go make friends. If you want to solo the game, there are plenty of RPGs that are solo-based (i.e. Skyrim, Witcher, etc).

This is the basic issue. Too many people PUG too much content. Blizzard started this, though, in 3.3 when they a) introduced LFG, b) made it battlegroup-wide, not server wide and c) created daily heroics as an incentive. Of COURSE people PUGged because you were rewarded for doing heroics daily by the quest and, if you were having a hard time getting groups already, it was more reliable to PUG than to try to find a group manually. You could queue and go do other stuff or, if you healed or tanked, get insta-runs.

The combination of all that made it perfectly possible to do content in a PUG AND it removed accountability because since the queue was battlegroup-wide, you'd never see those people again.

If Ion wants to design content around groups of friends and/or guilds, they need to incentivize that. Right now, they don't. If you're a meme spec or willing to get your IO high enough, you can easily PUG keys so why bother doing all the social stuff?

[Relapses]

I never said I don’t like the timer, I was only thinking about finding something else and give that a try. Because it’s clear that 99% of M+ issues are caused by the timer.

M+ is about the timer. It has always been about the timer. Before M+, there were CModes... which, guess what... had a timer. Most of the "99%" of "problems" you're attributing to M+'s timers aren't the fault of the timer. It's players blaming the timer for their own shortfalls. It's hard to say, "Man, I'm doing dogshit DPS, missing interrupts and playing like a boosted monkey," it's much easier to say, "fuck, I was so stressed by the timer that I forgot to time my CDs properly, missed an interrupt then got blown off the platform by an avoidable mechanic!" Be the guy that says the former, not the latter.

[Zig Zug]

I never said I don’t like the timer, I was only thinking about finding something else and give that a try. Because it’s clear that 99% of M+ issues are caused by the timer.

The Timer isn't the issue, the "why should I waste my time" is the issue.

Consider: +10 Tyrannical PF. First boss, and group for whatever reason can't make it. Slimes are loose, DMG sucks, and people can't move.

Good on you if you want to stay, but expecting others to stay seems unrealistic.

Perhaps if the timers stopped if a player left the group...but without thinking, I already can see how may be exploited.

[neescher]

Anyone here who is good at developing addons? I can be your product owner and together we will develop the M+ Rater (TM)

Basically, it's a 5 star rating system for each key that you are running. You would be able to rate other players from the group at two occasions, using an in-game overlay:

* After defeating the last boss
* At the moment the first player leaves the group before the last boss was defeated

You could expand on that to rate class skill, dungeon knowledge and friendliness.

Bye toxic.io and burn in hell where you belong to.

This would be 100% more toxic than rio. Someone made a mistake? Downvote. Someone said something someone else didn't like? Downvote. Someone took a talent that's not meta? Downvote. Oh yeah and people won't just downvote "class skill"... you're a scrub and deserve a downvote in every category

Rio isn't toxic, the community is. Rio is just a number, the community turns it into what it is.