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  1. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by Clbull View Post
    The problem was that I didn't see messages in party chat asking me to BL because my attention was focused on another screen.
    Why was your attention focused on another screen during a timed dungeon run?

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    It is like they are actively working towards turning the game into a chat lobby for instanced content, but unlike other similar matchmaking systems WoW doen't have protections in place. I don't think it's anyone's duty here to come up with the best system to regulate player behavior, the game has an army of people who are paid for such things. What we can do is bring the problem forward, which we've done far and wide.

    Whether it's a rating, record, points, votes or any of the many possibilities it's badly needed. With the highly challenging and competitive environment they cultivate it's boggling that there are no means to regulate poor player behavior and experiences. They are brewing toxic pits.
    I think you just came up with the million dollar game idea that would kill World of Warcraft.

    It wouldn't be a MMORPG. MMOs are far too costly to run and every developer that has tried to dethrone WoW, except maybe for a select few, have not only failed but gone out of business as a result of trying to chase that gold rush.

    Rather, it would be a mere free to play online multiplayer focused dungeon crawler, with similar tab-targeting and action bar based combat, OR telegraphed action combat like Wildstar had. Think a bit like Neverwinter if the game were only centred around instanced dungeons. Money would be made with boosts and cosmetics, to avoid the game going P2W. There would be a basic tutorial that explains clearly to the player basic mechanics like threat, aggro, damage dealing, healing, mana efficiency, interrupts, crowd control, etc.

    Dungeons are isolated levels which you can either tackle solo or in a group of up to 5 players. They scale based on players and each have their own separate leaderboards once hard modes are factored in.

    Classes would be abundant with plenty of talent trees, item, spec and role choices. Roles would be the holy trinity of tanking, DPS and healing. Once you hit max level (probably around 30), the endgame which involves hard mode dungeons and instanced raids of up to 40 concurrent players would open up.

    That is the game that would kill WoW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Why was your attention focused on another screen during a timed dungeon run?
    Quite simple, I had my chat window set on a whisper tab and forgot to move it elsewhere. The default UI unfortunately doesn't warn you when you receive messages in a separate tab, unless they're direct whispers, nor does it show nearby players saying those messages in speech boxes.

    I have chat separated into different tabs because if you're anywhere near a capital city, trade chat is filled with boost and gold seller spam - cause as stated before, Blizzard couldn't give a solitary crap about policing their own game.

    Either of these things would have averted the issue.
    Last edited by Clbull; 2021-05-03 at 11:34 AM.

  3. #803
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I know that, but for the people who are there to actually play the content and not to "maximise rewards per hour" it's not particularly enjoyable to just throw games and especially encounter people every single match demanding you do so and refusing to participate to speed up the process.
    There's something wrong with a game's design when not playing it is the most productive method of winning it.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  4. #804
    Quote Originally Posted by Clbull View Post
    I think you just came up with the million dollar game idea that would kill World of Warcraft.

    It wouldn't be a MMORPG. MMOs are far too costly to run and every developer that has tried to dethrone WoW, except maybe for a select few, have not only failed but gone out of business as a result of trying to chase that gold rush.

    Rather, it would be a mere free to play online multiplayer focused dungeon crawler, with similar tab-targeting and action bar based combat, OR telegraphed action combat like Wildstar had. Think a bit like Neverwinter if the game were only centred around instanced dungeons. Money would be made with boosts and cosmetics, to avoid the game going P2W. There would be a basic tutorial that explains clearly to the player basic mechanics like threat, aggro, damage dealing, healing, mana efficiency, interrupts, crowd control, etc.

    Dungeons are isolated levels which you can either tackle solo or in a group of up to 5 players. They scale based on players and each have their own separate leaderboards once hard modes are factored in.

    Classes would be abundant with plenty of talent trees, item, spec and role choices. Roles would be the holy trinity of tanking, DPS and healing. Once you hit max level (probably around 30), the endgame which involves hard mode dungeons and instanced raids of up to 40 concurrent players would open up.

    That is the game that would kill WoW.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quite simple, I had my chat window set on a whisper tab and forgot to move it elsewhere. The default UI unfortunately doesn't warn you when you receive messages in a separate tab, unless they're direct whispers, nor does it show nearby players saying those messages in speech boxes.

    I have chat separated into different tabs because if you're anywhere near a capital city, trade chat is filled with boost and gold seller spam - cause as stated before, Blizzard couldn't give a solitary crap about policing their own game.

    Either of these things would have averted the issue.
    Gotcha. I personally turn off trade chat cause it hasn't been useful in years lol. I guess its a good reminder to set chat windows to always have party showing when starting m+.

    The dudes a dick tho. There ARE set times to bloodlust that stay pretty consistent in like 90% of the runs, but imo 10-11 is about the range when u start learning that. It really doesn't matter in keys lower than that lol.

  5. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    There's something wrong with a game's design when not playing it is the most productive method of winning it.
    There's also something wrong with a game company's management when half of their playerbase makes the typical player blow a gasket.

    WoW is not a pleasant experience for that reason.

    The anonymity and lack of consequences resulting from Blizzard cross-realming the shit out of everything allows players to get away with behaviour that would lead to their exclusion in almost any other social context. In fact, if somebody behaved in a remotely toxic manner IRL to what I've witnessed in this game, they'd probably be beaten up.

  6. #806
    Quote Originally Posted by Clbull View Post
    There's also something wrong with a game company's management when half of their playerbase makes the typical player blow a gasket.

    WoW is not a pleasant experience for that reason.

    The anonymity and lack of consequences resulting from Blizzard cross-realming the shit out of everything allows players to get away with behaviour that would lead to their exclusion in almost any other social context. In fact, if somebody behaved in a remotely toxic manner IRL to what I've witnessed in this game, they'd probably be beaten up.
    Can't put that on Blizzard, that's a human nature problem. I've read there's another mmo, maybe FF or something else, where you get banned for looking at someone crooked.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  7. #807
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    so if you're playing with friends they can't go afk during the run because they'd get kicked?

    - - - Updated - - -



    i probably have higher score than you do lol... spear is the way on stitchflesh...
    so youre over 2.7k? dont belive so judging by your post history casualy, you would not cry on this forum if you would be near my score
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2021-05-03 at 12:08 PM.
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  8. #808
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    Bonus rolls and wf tf

  9. #809
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    A lot of high io players will leave even if a run is going fine because something doesn’t meet their definition of optimal. We were easily on pace to time the key until he started acting like a dick.

    I can’t for the life of me understand how a person ends up like that.
    its not "our" definition of optimal, its how the key is played and if you pull less than ppl pull on a +25 then yea i would be annoyed too, the pug tank special inv 2 fire mages and pull 1 pack at the time
    I.O BFA Season 3


  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Can't put that on Blizzard, that's a human nature problem. I've read there's another mmo, maybe FF or something else, where you get banned for looking at someone crooked.
    Final Fantasy XIV is what happens when a publisher genuinely gives a damn about how players behave in their game.

    Do I think they go a bit heavy-handed with their ban policy? Yes. I'll give two different examples of streamers who were banned for toxic behaviour on their stream.

    Xenosys_Vex was suspended for vulgar comments he made on stream, not posted in game. That I think is going overboard, but it's worth noting that he was a major community figure in the FFXIV community and was thus subject to FFXIV's Materials Usage Agreement, which has stricter behavioural standards for people seen as mentors and ambassadors of the brand.

    Arthars was suspended for publicly shaming a player on his stream for their low DPS numbers and encouraging viewers to harass said player. Targeted harassment should definitely be a bannable offence.

    In all honestly I'd rather have heavy-handed but also well-intentioned moderation over the wild west of ineffective machine learning algorithms that Blizzard have.

    I cannot vouch for the state of FFXIV's endgame community because the highest I've levelled a character is 46, but the community surrounding low level content is like the antithesis of WoW's. Players are generally supportive, educating and will rarely if ever initiate a vote kick.

    The only reason I'm not playing that game over WoW is because I generally loathe MMORPG questing and the mandatory main scenario quests of FFXIV are no exception. Imagine if, in order to experience Shadowlands, you had to complete every main story questline (including quest lines released in later patches) in Classic, Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor, Legion AND Battle for Azeroth before you could even step foot into The Maw.

    FFXIV's progression is like that. You have to complete ARR's MSQs before you can even step foot in Heavensward content. You have to complete Heavensward content before you can enter Stormblood content. You have to complete Stormblood content before you can step foot into Shadowbringers content, and so on. That's already being forced to play through 3 expansions worth of content just to catch up.
    Last edited by Clbull; 2021-05-03 at 12:32 PM.

  11. #811
    Quote Originally Posted by Clbull View Post
    I think you just came up with the million dollar game idea that would kill World of Warcraft.

    It wouldn't be a MMORPG. MMOs are far too costly to run and every developer that has tried to dethrone WoW, except maybe for a select few, have not only failed but gone out of business as a result of trying to chase that gold rush.

    Rather, it would be a mere free to play online multiplayer focused dungeon crawler, with similar tab-targeting and action bar based combat, OR telegraphed action combat like Wildstar had. Think a bit like Neverwinter if the game were only centred around instanced dungeons. Money would be made with boosts and cosmetics, to avoid the game going P2W. There would be a basic tutorial that explains clearly to the player basic mechanics like threat, aggro, damage dealing, healing, mana efficiency, interrupts, crowd control, etc.

    Dungeons are isolated levels which you can either tackle solo or in a group of up to 5 players. They scale based on players and each have their own separate leaderboards once hard modes are factored in.

    Classes would be abundant with plenty of talent trees, item, spec and role choices. Roles would be the holy trinity of tanking, DPS and healing. Once you hit max level (probably around 30), the endgame which involves hard mode dungeons and instanced raids of up to 40 concurrent players would open up.

    That is the game that would kill WoW.
    I'd love to see such a game as a AAA project where everything is polished and feels right. BioWare were doing it actually, shortly after the big release and big fall of SWTOR they had announced Shadow Realms (I think that was the name), which was aiming to be an online dungeon crawler including the fun things you describe, some of the people who worked on SWTOR were working on it, but it got cancelled after an year or so.

    I'm not sure what they are trying with WoW at the moment but between Torghast/islands/warfronts/mage tower, dungeons and raids, the world content might as well not be there. I even get my crafting mats from the mission table.

  12. #812
    The solution for M+ leavers is pretty easy...

    Don't play content designed for permanent groups with random guys.

    "Problem" solved.

  13. #813
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    The thing is before he left he was dying by standing in shit and not avoiding cone. After 4 deaths in the row I asked him politely if he has any issues with lagging or something is wrong? he didn't reply or said anything and carried on and kept dying and dying then he said f""' it" and left. This is the entire story there is no cover up and no "more into the story than that" that is exactly what happened. There is also a possibility that he doesn't understand English very well maybe.
    It may be all of YOUR side of the story. Again, I'm not insinuating anything from you. This may very well have been how you saw everything. It's always interesting to see what the person being blamed has to say.

    And yes, them not understanding English is not too uncommon. MMO language barriers are a struggle. And I played a MMO for years where English and Japanese players are mixed together.

  14. #814
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Leaving and depleting others key on a whim over a small argument composed of 2 exchanges is extremely toxic. Not to mention the run was going rather smooth.
    It's not. I can't be bothered to look at some dipshits arguing either because obviously if they are typing they are not playing

  15. #815
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    just because its weekly it doesnt mean that peopel are willing to put in 1,5 hour or like 100 deaths into run

    if i see tank pulling like moron / group being unable to do clean first pull or having like 10 deaths before first boss i will leave since my time is to precious to waste it

    just last night i was seriously considering multiple times bailing on mists 15 because group filled with 1800-1900 people behaved like people with 600 io failing so badly on so many basic stuff that it was crazy - or 1800 monk constantly - i mean constantly dying in PF15.

    honestly i had thought that they all bought those accounts because there shouldnt be reason either for 1800 people to do +15 or fail so badly .

    want example ? if i see group in DoS/HoS who is unable to clean up first pull with BL and all cds up only wipes there there is 0 chances i will stick with such group because there are sooo many so much harder pulls in there that key clear will be nightmare.

    if i was a streamer who plays wow 8 hours a day as my job then i would likely just bite it and always stay . but in pug ? no chance in hell. and i dont care how many angry whispers i will get after from group leaders who just wanted to be carried by others
    im not talking about 1.5 hours tho, here's a example my paladin had a necrotic wake 11 last week week as his 1st key i put it up as weekly as last week was crap for keys and i wanted it done for vault, everything was fine till we reached the 2nd boss we wipe twice due to people not wanting to kill adds we kill it on 3rd try some1 misses 1st hook on 3rd and healer insta leaves, even i make a mistake with the hook it happens, we would have been ever by like 3-4 mins but the healer wasn't interested.

    rest i can agree with but with some people their precious io is more important to them, heck ill give you another example had a tank leave mid fight last boss because the timer ran out, like why????? i don't advertise my keys as do them in time or abandon

  16. #816
    Quote Originally Posted by Clbull View Post
    Final Fantasy XIV is what happens when a publisher genuinely gives a damn about how players behave in their game.

    Do I think they go a bit heavy-handed with their ban policy? Yes. I'll give two different examples of streamers who were banned for toxic behaviour on their stream.

    Xenosys_Vex was suspended for vulgar comments he made on stream, not posted in game. That I think is going overboard, but it's worth noting that he was a major community figure in the FFXIV community and was thus subject to FFXIV's Materials Usage Agreement, which has stricter behavioural standards for people seen as mentors and ambassadors of the brand.

    Arthars was suspended for publicly shaming a player on his stream for their low DPS numbers and encouraging viewers to harass said player. Targeted harassment should definitely be a bannable offence.

    In all honestly I'd rather have heavy-handed but also well-intentioned moderation over the wild west of ineffective machine learning algorithms that Blizzard have.

    I cannot vouch for the state of FFXIV's endgame community because the highest I've levelled a character is 46, but the community surrounding low level content is like the antithesis of WoW's. Players are generally supportive, educating and will rarely if ever initiate a vote kick.

    The only reason I'm not playing that game over WoW is because I generally loathe MMORPG questing and the mandatory main scenario quests of FFXIV are no exception. Imagine if, in order to experience Shadowlands, you had to complete every main story questline (including quest lines released in later patches) in Classic, Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor, Legion AND Battle for Azeroth before you could even step foot into The Maw.

    FFXIV's progression is like that. You have to complete ARR's MSQs before you can even step foot in Heavensward content. You have to complete Heavensward content before you can enter Stormblood content. You have to complete Stormblood content before you can step foot into Shadowbringers content, and so on. That's already being forced to play through 3 expansions worth of content just to catch up.
    Wow, that progression is brutal. That's like the BC attunement on steroids. Speaking of being punished for doing things outside their usual area, the Supreme Court recently declined to review a case questioning whether schools could punish children for what they said on social media. Scary world.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  17. #817
    Are we asking for a system to punish people from the community that had to add kick protection to protect its playerbase?

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Are we asking for a system to punish people from the community that had to add kick protection to protect its playerbase?
    yes because we need some sorta punishment for ppl that quickly bail keys

  19. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    yes because we need some sorta punishment for ppl that quickly bail keys
    And what's your solution?

    Is it to have them just afk/refuse to participate instead of leave? Because that's what most of the proposed "fixes" would do

  20. #820
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    And what's your solution?

    Is it to have them just afk/refuse to participate instead of leave? Because that's what most of the proposed "fixes" would do
    No it's simple. The system should just "know" when someone left because they are toxic, and it'll differentiate from ppl leaving because their grandma was in fact, on fire.

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