Solution for M+ leavers....

[thunderdragon2]

Alternatively, why don't you just ask the group (prior to starting the key) if they are ok with finishing the key regardless of making the timer? Sure it would be a nice thing to be under timer but the goal is completion.

This way players can opt out prior to a key being downgraded. Some players don't necessarily want to spend more than the X allotted time per dungeon. Your time is valuable to you and so is their time valuable to them.

i tried this people still leave after the 2nd wipe in the instance

[Rageonit]

and how you decided if a person is a "leaver" ? because what people would start to do is just to fake dc and log in to another alt.

dont know how you but i have 4 max level alts capable of runing +15 - and then what when i fake dc ? if "you" leave first its you who would get "counted"

No reason to overthink it. If your character leaves the instance, for any reason at all - be it a DC - you are flagged as a leaver. Yes, you could sometimes get flagged for a genuine DC, but since it's percentage based, I doubt it would affet your overall score that much. Also, I guess you could work on a system that unflags you if you log back etc. etc.

EDIT: Also, that's why you need a majority vote system to be able to end the run prematurely with no consequences. If somebody logs out and isn't coming back, and you know you can't finish the run, you just vote to end it and part your ways peacefully.

[Rageonit]

lol... that's a fucking horrible system... so i can't leave the instance to change gear or talents or spec if i realize i've got the wrong ones?

I tried to be concise, but I will try to be even more if my sentences are too long.
So again: those are only small details that would need ironing out. I have already said that you can implement a system that unflags you if you log back. So many ways to do it, honestly: the flag could have a form of a hidden debuff that disappears after a certain time if you come back to the instance/finish the run etc. etc.
Instead of nitpicking trivial stuff, I encourage you to try to think about the bigger picture @Sugarcube.

if they're gonna implement leaver stats they better implement penalties for underperforming people... they are the ones causing the leavers lol...

So only a simple stat for leavers, but underperformers need to be punished? Doesn't sound like a fair solution.
Besides, if you think it's mostly underperformers causing the problem, you shouldn't have too many troubles finding like-minded players that will happily invite you in spite of your high leaver%.

[Rageonit]

if someone can find a flaw in your suggestion instantly when reading your post... then it's a pretty bad idea to implement...

Well that's mostly because they cba to finish reading the paragraph (which was relatively short). I encourage you to read full paragraphs, helps to avoid confusion.

[Bloodyleech]

lol... that's a fucking horrible system... so i can't leave the instance to change gear or talents or spec if i realize i've got the wrong ones?

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if they're gonna implement leaver stats they better implement penalties for underperforming people... they are the ones causing the leavers lol...

I don't think this is as easily doable tho.
I know where this comes from, but I don't see any way to counter these people, sadly.

[callipygoustp]

Tank was shit, I didn't deny that. But instead of leaving he could've, you know.. Stayed and finished the dungeon? That pull is doable on a +14 tyran week.

I get it, its not the shitty tank's fault. People should just forgive that and not be toxic!


wtf-ever.

[Rageonit]

your suggestion is just plain bad though...
like, if we decide to abandon a key with a premade, we can't just leave? we have to vote to leave? if someone leaves before a vote is passed, he gets leaver? like, what kind of bad suggestion is this? m+ groups aren't looking for dungeon groups...

So you're saying that my suggestion is bad, because you cba to do a vote that would take as much time as a ready check does?
Well at least I start to understand why you don't read entire paragraphs Oh, and another thing: this system could be implemented only for the PUG tool, not for premades. Please, if you encounter a problem, try to give it a second thought to find a solution. It's not as hard as you might think.

[Rageonit]

your suggestion is bad because it comes with a heavy penalty for something that will most definitely happen when people are in premade groups... plenty of times... people would demand its removal due to it if it was implemented lol...

right now... if playing with a premade and you decide you're done with trying the key... you just hearthstone out... or if you're done for the day... you just log off...

It comes with no penalty, it's just a stat. Whatever people do with it, it's their problem. Here's the thing: if majority of the community shares your view, that number would have no bearing on your chances of forming a gorup, because noone would even take a second look at the leaver%.
Or maybe you're afraid people would actually look at those %, which means not that many share your attitude...?

As for the second thing: like I've said above (in an edit), you can implement that tool only for the PUG interface.

[dacoolist]

Just run 14 no leavers like me: youll never have someone leave ever

If you’re pushing, only push with static groups if you want no issues with the tank (normally) leaving

[Rageonit]

there is no difference in wow's systems that makes a difference in how you invite people to your group...

I don't know if there is or isn't, but even if there isn't, it's a programming issue. Another problem that can be solved.

yet you opposed people being penalized for underperforming... even though that's more of a problem in the game than leavers... lol...

I'm opposed to any in-game penalties. If you're right about the community & biggest m+ problems, leaver% will do nothing for the game, because it will be ignored. It will only have an adverse effect (for you and like-minded players) if you're wrong.

[Rageonit]

nope... you're blatantly lying at this point...

How so? A simple stat number is not a penalty.
You not being invited to groups because of high leaver% is not an in-game penalty, it's a community penalty.

[Soikona]

there is no difference in wow's systems that makes a difference in how you invite people to your group...

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yet you opposed people being penalized for underperforming... even though that's more of a problem in the game than leavers... lol...

you can avoid some of them by checking logs but a lot of people don't even have any logs...

Underperforming is a specific problem to you, not to the game. Considering for 15’s you can have several full wipes and still time it, so leaving because you wiped once is a bigger problem.

[Rageonit]

underperforming players is far more pervasive than leavers... they are more of a problem... i don't care about timing 15s... i am doing fucking 20s...

Considering 20s are done by a small minority of players, your problem is a marginal one (even more so in a world where most 20s are done by premades).
More people do 15s than 20s, ergo leavers in 15 are a bigger problem than underperformers in 20s. Besides, you already have plenty of tools to measure people's performance - and no tool to check their leave &.

[Rageonit]

my problem is when joining lower keys to do vaults... people fucking suck at the game and expect to get carried...

Nah, it's you expecting easy profit for little work (while being antisocial). Newsflash: it's a multi-player game and noone is playing it to make it easier specifically for you. Accept that some people are not as good as others or do some actual work and make a premade, tyty.

[Rageonit]

maybe they should stop whining about leavers when the leaver don't want to carry them and get good?

If community is on your side, leaver % won't have any effect on your game anyway. So what's the problem?

[Rageonit]

the community is made up by people like this...

Where are yours? xD Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

[Crimson Spears]

the community is made up by people like this... get good at the game if you don't want leavers... nobody leaves a good group...

I have to agree. I enjoy leveling alts on different servers a fresh start each time so to speak and people really overestimate themselves. It can take an hour to fill a +12 but a +14-15 will be flooded by people how never timed a +7...

A lot of people have no idea how to play the game and to be honest I don't blame them the game doesn't really tell you anything about how you should play it kind of just hopes you teach yourself.

[Rageonit]

It boggles my mind how, in the era of raider.io, warcraft logs and what not, you are still able to form groups like that. I agree that people who don't understand the importance of interrupts have no place in 15s, but it's hard to believe you somehow came across 4 players who supposedly were boosted to a decent rio score (?). People who never timed a +7? Sounds like a gross exaggeration. Every now and then you do get into a bad group, but a group like this? And you're trying to tell me it happens on a daily basis? Because only then leaving a group like this would have any visible effect on your leaver %.

[Bloodyleech]

the community is made up by people like this... get good at the game if you don't want leavers... nobody leaves a good group...

Imagine, people would actually know their basics before going into content with other humans.
Imagine they would actually use 20-30 minutes of their time to learn! HAHA. It's better to be ignorant and waste other people + their own time instead of just learning once. And then they call leavers toxic. Always the best.

[Bloodyleech]

It boggles my mind how, in the era of raider.io, warcraft logs and what not, you are still able to form groups like that. I agree that people who don't understand the importance of interrupts have no place in 15s, but it's hard to believe you somehow came across 4 players who supposedly were boosted to a decent rio score (?). People who never timed a +7? Sounds like a gross exaggeration. Every now and then you do get into a bad group, but a group like this? And you're trying to tell me it happens on a daily basis? Because only then leaving a group like this would have any visible effect on your leaver %.

A mate of mine is one of the unluckiest people in the gaming industry. Worst RNG whenever possible, but getting almost any cosmetic other farm for years. It's really weird. He regulary gets groups with very underperforming or toxic people - and no, with him it's not a "common determinator" - he's never toxic (rarely writing into the groupchannel), he knows any and all mechanics in this game almost perfectly, his characterplay is in the top% and he's one of those who never leaves. Some people have this "luck".