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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Garybear View Post
    Most mythic raiders are unemployed or have 0 responsibilities outside of work and have a consistent work schedule that allows them to play on a raid team. I would not recommend this lifestyle as in 5 years you'll be very very disappointed in yourself.
    Many mythic raiders are unemployed, on welfare or in school. But many others have full time jobs.

    First, it's a matter of what kind of guild you choose. There's a lot of "tryhard" guilds where you'll be forced to grind even when the guild progression rank doesn't seem to be high enough to justify it. It might be hard, but you have to find a more laid back guild. Good example is comparing guilds that raided over xmas and those that took a break. Obviously those who took a break are now behind on progression... but do you want to have progression instead of time off for xmas?

    A lot of people who have jobs have either typical "9 to 5 office jobs", are self-employed or business owners, so they're in control of their schedule. For example in my last guild a lot of people had some IT job that they either provided customer support in office hours (recently mostly working from home cuz COVID), or they were "on call" if shit happens (admins etc.)

    Extremely busy jobs and shift jobs are not really compatible with typical wow schedule. There are very few guilds that raid out of typical "early evening" window, and if your working schedule has irregular pattern, you're completely screwed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlunie View Post
    I’ve found a massive amount of the community cannot schedule to save their lives.
    A lot of people also can't make healthy boundaries in their relationships. Bollox like "GF aggro" or "brb 20 mins in the middle of the raid because baby is crying" shouldn't happen in a healthy relationship where people can plan between each other. If you raid 3 times a week you can just arrange the spouse / partner takes care of the baby on a raid night and you do the other 4 days and nobody is exploited.

  2. #82
    Warchief
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    Plenty of 3 day guilds out there that raid in the evenings so having a full time job isn't the end of the world. I fyou also have other commitments too, well then maybe you should focus on other activities in the game.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

    56 hours of sleep
    7 hours eating
    3 hours cooking
    5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way
    3 hours of exercise
    3 hours of toilet
    2 hours of shower
    7-20 hours of sex

    That's 120 hours already. Now go out with your kids on Saturday and meet some friends on Sunday and you're down to 30 hours.
    Do you spend that time doing 10 hours raiding, 10 hours grinding gear, reps, mats, powers, etc, 10 hours leveling characters?
    Or do you spend that time working on your personal hobby project/greatest dream of your life?
    Or do you maybe like.... sit back and enjoy life for a bit and rest?

    And mind you, this is me being absolutely nuts when it comes to discipline and time management. I managed to calculate every single minute I spend on daily/weekly activities and tried to be as optimal as possible, creating a few hours a day for gaming - my fiancee is 10 000 km away and we are under quarantine so I don't need to worry about time spent with other people (friends, family, etc). AND STILL it is too much. And not only because it takes time but because... it feels like a second job :P Now imagine people who don't manage their time like me and are more social than me. Life, hello?

    That said, I don't care about gear you will replace in 6 months so CE doesn't mean anything to me. But you said you don't understand so I was generous enough to do the math for you.

    most people exercise in the morning,or go to the gym and you dont go at night when raids are usualy happening,so i have no idea how thats an issue

    and how does sex get in the way of raiding lol?thats normaly a before bed thing,in the morning or right when you come from work if your not to tired,for me working from home its never been an issue and my gf is a gym instructor so her day is pretty chill also,but i know plenty of people who come home dead tired so i guess sometimes that can be odd

    but anyways wile i dont have kids,even when i used to not work from home,i never had issues with this....i came home,shower,eat,talk...had time to do pre raid stuff and 2h raid,and still had some time after...when we had off days i whent out

  4. #84
    or just play a few hour per weeks and aim for AOTC like the majority of us

  5. #85
    The Lightbringer Littleraven's Avatar
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    Honestly you just have to realize you probably won't be able to get it naturally unless you get carried by friends or buy a run. Some people make raiding at that level work while holding a full time job but it all depends on your schedule and how much sleep and other stuff you are willing to sacrifice. I pretty much gave up any hope of being "hardcore" into raiding as soon as I started working my current full time job. I just don't have the time to worry about it.

    It's funny too because I often wonder how the hell I had time to do it in Cataclysm but then remember that I literally wasn't doing shit back then but going to a community college. Raiding is time consuming and there is just no getting around that unless you know people who can carry your ass or you buy it lol

  6. #86
    I used to be like a lot of people here and say it was easy, and honestly it was at the time. I was top 20 world in ICC (12 hrs weekly) while going to college full time and working 37 hours a week and found time to date and maintain friendships. But I was busy 24/7.

    Now that I'm knocking on mid 30's it has become significantly harder.

    • Relationships (dating and friends) take consistent effort and aren't free like they used to be now that other people have obligations, etc.
    • My job isn't easy anymore. I'm very good at Work Life Balance as in I generally only work 40 hours, but it's very complicated and exhausting mental work that puts me on my PC for 8 hours a day so the last thing I really want to do is spend another 4-6 on it at night.
    • I have more hobbies now (i.e I play tennis 3-4x a week so I don't have to go to the gym).
    • I'm a homeowner now so I have shit I need to fix/clean, chores, etc. that I never used to have to do.
    • I'm not 20 anymore so sometimes I legit need rest or some time to unwind.

    Yes all of these activities leave room for raiding even CE raiding, but I'll be buried and have no flexibility. That's not even counting what If I wanted to play a new game that came out?

    It's definitely doable, anyone who argues otherwise is incorrect, but there's a cost to it. It's up to the individual to determine the cost of it. I'm not willing to give up IRL relationships/fitness for it and switching careers while doable isn't really reasonable.

  7. #87
    Always curious why people bring up “full time job” as if that isn’t the default for the vast majority of the population?

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlunie View Post
    I’ve found a massive amount of the community cannot schedule to save their lives. Some people have 0 free time which blows my mind. I understand if you have kids, but if you don’t and you still can’t find any free time that’s a yikes.
    A job often keeps you busy from 8AM until 5-6PM, after that exercising, cooking, eating, cleaning easily keeps you busy until 8-9PM, which is when you're usually free when you're single. If you're not, evening schedule can heavily change at that point, based on partner. I found a lot of people require schedule randomness to be happy in a relationship.
    You need to sleep and to wake up next morning, so going to sleep later than midnight is hard for a lot of workers.
    Also, you might have gaps inside all that, but they do not matter, WoW most often requires uninterrupted time. 1 fully free hour is worth more than 4x30 mins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    Always curious why people bring up “full time job” as if that isn’t the default for the vast majority of the population?
    Not sure it's the default for WoW's population, which has a lot of kids, teenagers and students.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Garybear View Post
    Most mythic raiders are unemployed or have 0 responsibilities outside of work and have a consistent work schedule that allows them to play on a raid team. I would not recommend this lifestyle as in 5 years you'll be very very disappointed in yourself.
    What's your source on that? Certainly does not describe the last three mythic raids I've been a part of.

    Sure, anecdotal evidence either way, but logically it does not hold up. There are very few raids that raid more than 12 hours a week. A competent player can easily accomplish all other chores and tasks in under 10 hours a week (easily.) That's 22 hours a week. That kind of commitment does not require joblessness.

    I get that a lot of people come out of school and have kind of shitty jobs and don't have reasonably fixed schedules. But tons of people have professional jobs and have no problem raiding at a high level.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Loosecannon View Post
    Solid flex.
    Lol, really? Is it a flex to have sex on a daily basis? We are talking about people with kids and stuff here, certainly this hould be a norm? In my exact case right now, I get 0 hours of sex a week because my fiancee is 10 000 km away. But you can trust me on this, I still spend at least 7 hours of intimate time a week. Solo If this is a flex, then you have an inferiority complex, my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    most people exercise in the morning,or go to the gym and you dont go at night when raids are usualy happening,so i have no idea how thats an issue

    and how does sex get in the way of raiding lol?thats normaly a before bed thing,in the morning or right when you come from work if your not to tired,for me working from home its never been an issue and my gf is a gym instructor so her day is pretty chill also,but i know plenty of people who come home dead tired so i guess sometimes that can be odd

    but anyways wile i dont have kids,even when i used to not work from home,i never had issues with this....i came home,shower,eat,talk...had time to do pre raid stuff and 2h raid,and still had some time after...when we had off days i whent out
    Did you read my post? It's not about the TIMING, it is about the TIME. I literally did the math for an entire week's worth of daily and weekly activities. You can certainly put the hours together and see that only 20-30 hours of free time are left per week and the point is: You have to choose whether to spend those 20-30 hours with your family or working on your hobby/dream or playing games and even if its all for games, there are still many ingame activities and you just cannot do them all. So if you want to get Cutting Edge, you need to make sacrifices. And most adults with uncompromised lives do not tend to make those sacrifices for obvious reasons. And no mate, you do not get Cutting Edge with 2 hours of raiding a week. Pay attention, please.

    I'm not saying it's impossible for an adult to get CE. What I am saying is:
    If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life AND/OR you have perfect time management and efficiency in absolutely everything you do including taking the fastest shits ever.
    Last edited by Shinrael; 2021-01-05 at 04:47 AM.

  11. #91
    In the current WoW era, that which you can not do, simply buy.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    Did you read my post? It's not about the TIMING, it is about the TIME. I literally did the math for an entire week's worth of daily and weekly activities. You can certainly put the hours together and see that only 20-30 hours of free time are left per week and the point is: You have to choose whether to spend those 20-30 hours with your family or working on your hobby/dream or playing games and even if its all for games, there are still many ingame activities and you just cannot do them all. So if you want to get Cutting Edge, you need to make sacrifices. And most adults with uncompromised lives do not tend to make those sacrifices for obvious reasons. And no mate, you do not get Cutting Edge with 2 hours of raiding a week. Pay attention, please.

    I'm not saying it's impossible for an adult to get CE. What I am saying is:
    If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life AND/OR you have perfect time management and efficiency in absolutely everything you do including taking the fastest shits ever.
    You sure did the calculations, and it involved gems like 1-3 hours of sex/jerking off PER DAY. Having healthy sex drive is one thing, but amalgamation of raging hormones is quite another. If that's the daily bare minimum in ones 30's, I'd advice seeking a doctor before your ship crashes at prostate cancer from all the excess testosterone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    You sure did the calculations, and it involved gems like 1-3 hours of sex/jerking off PER DAY. Having healthy sex drive is one thing, but amalgamation of raging hormones is quite another. If that's the daily bare minimum in ones 30's, I'd advice seeking a doctor before your ship crashes at prostate cancer from all the excess testosterone.
    Ever heard of foreplay?

    Edit: Also, do you have any source on that excess testosterone thing? 1 hour a day for self-intimacy should be nowhere near close to excessive for a single male (or one in a long-distance relationship).
    Last edited by Shinrael; 2021-01-05 at 06:35 AM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    I'm not saying it's impossible for an adult to get CE. What I am saying is:
    If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life AND/OR you have perfect time management and efficiency in absolutely everything you do including taking the fastest shits ever.
    Dude, WoW is a hobby like thousands of others. Do you actually think everyone with a serious hobby is doing something wrong with their life? Also why are you on a gaming forum if gaming is living life wrong?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    Ever heard of foreplay?

    Edit: Also, do you have any source on that excess testosterone thing? 1 hour a day for self-intimacy should be nowhere near close to excessive for a single male (or one in a long-distance relationship).
    Wh...what the actual fuck did I just read?

  16. #96
    Easy. When you have a full time job and family you should End game :-)

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Synli View Post
    Hey all, just wanted to start a discussion on playing through the current (and I guess future) end game when you have a full time job. Like many I grew up playing this game and now have a full time job and far too many responsibilities to commit to a hardcore raid schedule. For the most part I'm wondering how you could get CE when you can't commit to a raid schedule.

    From what I can see in Shadowlands, it looks like doing PvP to gear up properly and then getting into a mythic run with a friend in a couple months is the most optimal way. M+ gear just doesn't seem to have the ilvl. Would this be the best way to do so when you can't commit to a raid team?
    Im having full time job and im being able to raid for 10+ years. Find good guild with 2 raids a week and its ok. We always do CE and are in 1000 world.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    Lol, really? Is it a flex to have sex on a daily basis? We are talking about people with kids and stuff here, certainly this hould be a norm? In my exact case right now, I get 0 hours of sex a week because my fiancee is 10 000 km away. But you can trust me on this, I still spend at least 7 hours of intimate time a week. Solo If this is a flex, then you have an inferiority complex, my friend.



    Did you read my post? It's not about the TIMING, it is about the TIME. I literally did the math for an entire week's worth of daily and weekly activities. You can certainly put the hours together and see that only 20-30 hours of free time are left per week and the point is: You have to choose whether to spend those 20-30 hours with your family or working on your hobby/dream or playing games and even if its all for games, there are still many ingame activities and you just cannot do them all. So if you want to get Cutting Edge, you need to make sacrifices. And most adults with uncompromised lives do not tend to make those sacrifices for obvious reasons. And no mate, you do not get Cutting Edge with 2 hours of raiding a week. Pay attention, please.

    I'm not saying it's impossible for an adult to get CE. What I am saying is:
    If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life AND/OR you have perfect time management and efficiency in absolutely everything you do including taking the fastest shits ever.
    I get your point,but like i said,our guild is full of adults(with a few students in college,we havent had a highschooler since cata unless somoene is lying lol) that either make those sacrifices,personaly i dont,and we raid 4-5 nigths a week when pushing for kils,idk...maybe the math is a bit off,work hour wise or travel time idk

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life AND/OR you have perfect time management and efficiency in absolutely everything you do including taking the fastest shits ever.

    This is a perfect example of someone commenting from the outside looking in. Being an adult with all that it entails and getting CE in World of Warcraft is not difficult to achieve, it's just a matter of what you spend your evenings on and if you're ACTUALLY GOOD AT IT. My guild has been around for a long time, and by now most of us playing are in our mid-20's or pushing 30, working full-time and having other things take up our time on a weekly/daily basis. This does not prevent us from getting both Cutting Edge & Hall of Fame each tier.

    I don't understand the perception that the community has of having to devote more time to World of Warcraft than to your job in order to successfully play the game at the highest level. It can be done, the question is if you as a player are at that caliber or not, you can't just join a top 200 guild if you've been struggling to clear Heroic within 1-2 weeks of the raids release just because their schedule fits your work.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

    56 hours of sleep
    7 hours eating
    3 hours cooking
    5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way
    3 hours of exercise
    3 hours of toilet
    2 hours of shower
    7-20 hours of sex

    That's 120 hours already. Now go out with your kids on Saturday and meet some friends on Sunday and you're down to 30 hours.
    Do you spend that time doing 10 hours raiding, 10 hours grinding gear, reps, mats, powers, etc, 10 hours leveling characters?
    Or do you spend that time working on your personal hobby project/greatest dream of your life?
    Or do you maybe like.... sit back and enjoy life for a bit and rest?

    And mind you, this is me being absolutely nuts when it comes to discipline and time management. I managed to calculate every single minute I spend on daily/weekly activities and tried to be as optimal as possible, creating a few hours a day for gaming - my fiancee is 10 000 km away and we are under quarantine so I don't need to worry about time spent with other people (friends, family, etc). AND STILL it is too much. And not only because it takes time but because... it feels like a second job :P Now imagine people who don't manage their time like me and are more social than me. Life, hello?

    That said, I don't care about gear you will replace in 6 months so CE doesn't mean anything to me. But you said you don't understand so I was generous enough to do the math for you.

    You're being sub-optimal, man. You shit at work, when you get home you piss and during the raid pause. Sleep 6h these three or four nights, shower in 15 minutes and not 30 (your water bill will thank you too) and use prepared meals/fast cooking stuff like pasta on raiding nights. There you have it. Yes, you sacrifice a bit of sleep and your finest salad twice a week, but that's pretty much it. The issue is if you feel raiding as a second job instead of a cool moment as you said.

    Other than that, you'll clear the raid faster if you git gud. Better pewpew, less sacrifice
    Last edited by Molov; 2021-01-05 at 09:03 AM.

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