End game when you have a full time job

[kappalol]

Hey all, just wanted to start a discussion on playing through the current (and I guess future) end game when you have a full time job. Like many I grew up playing this game and now have a full time job and far too many responsibilities to commit to a hardcore raid schedule. For the most part I'm wondering how you could get CE when you can't commit to a raid schedule.

From what I can see in Shadowlands, it looks like doing PvP to gear up properly and then getting into a mythic run with a friend in a couple months is the most optimal way. M+ gear just doesn't seem to have the ilvl. Would this be the best way to do so when you can't commit to a raid team?

Im having full time job and im being able to raid for 10+ years. Find good guild with 2 raids a week and its ok. We always do CE and are in 1000 world.

[deenman]

Lol, really? Is it a flex to have sex on a daily basis? We are talking about people with kids and stuff here, certainly this hould be a norm? In my exact case right now, I get 0 hours of sex a week because my fiancee is 10 000 km away. But you can trust me on this, I still spend at least 7 hours of intimate time a week. Solo If this is a flex, then you have an inferiority complex, my friend.



Did you read my post? It's not about the TIMING, it is about the TIME. I literally did the math for an entire week's worth of daily and weekly activities. You can certainly put the hours together and see that only 20-30 hours of free time are left per week and the point is: You have to choose whether to spend those 20-30 hours with your family or working on your hobby/dream or playing games and even if its all for games, there are still many ingame activities and you just cannot do them all. So if you want to get Cutting Edge, you need to make sacrifices. And most adults with uncompromised lives do not tend to make those sacrifices for obvious reasons. And no mate, you do not get Cutting Edge with 2 hours of raiding a week. Pay attention, please.

I'm not saying it's impossible for an adult to get CE. What I am saying is:
If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life AND/OR you have perfect time management and efficiency in absolutely everything you do including taking the fastest shits ever.

I get your point,but like i said,our guild is full of adults(with a few students in college,we havent had a highschooler since cata unless somoene is lying lol) that either make those sacrifices,personaly i dont,and we raid 4-5 nigths a week when pushing for kils,idk...maybe the math is a bit off,work hour wise or travel time idk

[Kief]

If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life AND/OR you have perfect time management and efficiency in absolutely everything you do including taking the fastest shits ever.

This is a perfect example of someone commenting from the outside looking in. Being an adult with all that it entails and getting CE in World of Warcraft is not difficult to achieve, it's just a matter of what you spend your evenings on and if you're ACTUALLY GOOD AT IT. My guild has been around for a long time, and by now most of us playing are in our mid-20's or pushing 30, working full-time and having other things take up our time on a weekly/daily basis. This does not prevent us from getting both Cutting Edge & Hall of Fame each tier.

I don't understand the perception that the community has of having to devote more time to World of Warcraft than to your job in order to successfully play the game at the highest level. It can be done, the question is if you as a player are at that caliber or not, you can't just join a top 200 guild if you've been struggling to clear Heroic within 1-2 weeks of the raids release just because their schedule fits your work.

[Molov]

A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

56 hours of sleep
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way
3 hours of exercise
3 hours of toilet
2 hours of shower
7-20 hours of sex

That's 120 hours already. Now go out with your kids on Saturday and meet some friends on Sunday and you're down to 30 hours.
Do you spend that time doing 10 hours raiding, 10 hours grinding gear, reps, mats, powers, etc, 10 hours leveling characters?
Or do you spend that time working on your personal hobby project/greatest dream of your life?
Or do you maybe like.... sit back and enjoy life for a bit and rest?

And mind you, this is me being absolutely nuts when it comes to discipline and time management. I managed to calculate every single minute I spend on daily/weekly activities and tried to be as optimal as possible, creating a few hours a day for gaming - my fiancee is 10 000 km away and we are under quarantine so I don't need to worry about time spent with other people (friends, family, etc). AND STILL it is too much. And not only because it takes time but because... it feels like a second job :P Now imagine people who don't manage their time like me and are more social than me. Life, hello?

That said, I don't care about gear you will replace in 6 months so CE doesn't mean anything to me. But you said you don't understand so I was generous enough to do the math for you.

You're being sub-optimal, man. You shit at work, when you get home you piss and during the raid pause. Sleep 6h these three or four nights, shower in 15 minutes and not 30 (your water bill will thank you too) and use prepared meals/fast cooking stuff like pasta on raiding nights. There you have it. Yes, you sacrifice a bit of sleep and your finest salad twice a week, but that's pretty much it. The issue is if you feel raiding as a second job instead of a cool moment as you said.

Other than that, you'll clear the raid faster if you git gud. Better pewpew, less sacrifice

[Cayumi]

Hey all, just wanted to start a discussion on playing through the current (and I guess future) end game when you have a full time job. Like many I grew up playing this game and now have a full time job and far too many responsibilities to commit to a hardcore raid schedule. For the most part I'm wondering how you could get CE when you can't commit to a raid schedule.

Find a guild with a schedule that fits you. I have a full time job and a family too, and the majority of my guild as well.
We still run for (and achieve) CE with two raiding days and a total of 5 hours per week. We run late raids 21:30-00:00 which is perfect for me since it's after bed time for the kids.

My problem though is making time for everything outside of raids, I struggle to complete my M+, torghast and campaign within a reset. And I already had to forget about the Maw.

- - - Updated - - -

A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:
7-20 hours of sex

In what kind of dream world does one spend a bare minimum of one hour a day having sex? I'm clearly failing at life.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

In what kind of dream world does one spend a bare minimum of one hour a day having sex? I'm clearly failing at life.

List he made says all you need to know about him.

Dream sounds about right.

[Malania]

I couldn't even do Heroic EN in Legion without stressing out when I had a fulltime job due to being rusty from not playing "enough", being more socially drained by work than I ever was by school and some other reasons. Call me bad or whatever, but I can't imagine aiming for CE while having a job but being unable to even commit to a raid schedule. You may as well go casual or just quit outright.

I hear that there are 6-9 hour/week raiding guilds out there that get CE, but you're going to have to look for them yourself, and obviously commit to a raid schedule.

Yeah I was like that by the time I quit raiding. I'd get home and all I wanted to do was sit down or sleep, but I'd have to start getting ready to raid. I think I got old. When that occurred, I couldn't tell you but it's a crime!

[Shinrael]

Dude, WoW is a hobby like thousands of others. Do you actually think everyone with a serious hobby is doing something wrong with their life? Also why are you on a gaming forum if gaming is living life wrong?

Did I say having a serious hobby is doing something wrong with your life? No, that is not what I said. What I said is that, if you are serious about your life, family, friends, kids, work, HEALTH, self-maintenance, etc, then you suddenly end up with far less time than a no-lifer would. And after all that time has been taken by daily/weekly activities, you're left with the choice whether to spend it all grinding gear which you will replace in 6 months... or doing something else that will net a permanent gain. Such as mount/mog farming, gold making, leveling alts, OR even doing things outside of WoW. In order to get CE you need to dedicate yourself to it. Which means you cannot dedicate yourself to other things. And in life you need to dedicate yourself to a lot of things. Sadly.

Wh...what the actual fuck did I just read?

Jesus, what the actual fuck did you read indeed, now I am curious 50 minutes of foreplay and 10 minutes of sex is such an alien thing here on the gaming forums? Should have figured.........

I get your point,but like i said,our guild is full of adults(with a few students in college,we havent had a highschooler since cata unless somoene is lying lol) that either make those sacrifices,personaly i dont,and we raid 4-5 nigths a week when pushing for kils,idk...maybe the math is a bit off,work hour wise or travel time idk

4-5 nights a week is not 2 hours a week xD You kinda contradict yourself. 4-5 nights a week is a big amount of time you spend only on raiding. And while in Shadowlands you don't need much maintance for your main, in BFA and Legion for example you had to farm Artifact Power for hours. I know people who got benched from a Mythic raid team (rather casual one at that) for having a low ilvl HoA.

This is a perfect example of someone commenting from the outside looking in. Being an adult with all that it entails and getting CE in World of Warcraft is not difficult to achieve, it's just a matter of what you spend your evenings on and if you're ACTUALLY GOOD AT IT. My guild has been around for a long time, and by now most of us playing are in our mid-20's or pushing 30, working full-time and having other things take up our time on a weekly/daily basis. This does not prevent us from getting both Cutting Edge & Hall of Fame each tier.

I don't understand the perception that the community has of having to devote more time to World of Warcraft than to your job in order to successfully play the game at the highest level. It can be done, the question is if you as a player are at that caliber or not, you can't just join a top 200 guild if you've been struggling to clear Heroic within 1-2 weeks of the raids release just because their schedule fits your work.

Well, if you one shot every fight then sure, you can make it. But how realistic is that? Once again I repeat - I am not saying it's impossible for adult. I am saying is that you are probably not doing other things which you SHOULD be doing too. Working out, 10 km walking/running a day, cooking, working, self-care, family, friends, kids. Does someone cook for you? Do you pay enough attention to your wife? Are you healthy enough? Do you pay enough attention to your kids? Do you have any dreams you're working on? Or do you have the dream job already and are the happiest person in the world?

Look, I am not the best player out there. I am casual. I started raiding in MoP doing Normal SoO with 1 fps (not exaggeration). Got into Heroic via pugs and later leading my own guild in 7.3.5 Antorus when I finally had normal FPS. I lived in Japan so I was waking up at 2 am at night so I can raid with my guildmates at 3 am Japan time. We did 3 raid nights a week for 2-3 hours each. So while I haven't done Mythic raiding, I have doine RAIDING and the time I spent on it is not less than it would be, if I were doing Mythic. I am familiar with the sacrifices one must make in order to dedicate themselves to a raiding schedule. So no, not commenting from the outside :P At the start of 8.3 I joined a Mythic guild. I was doing relatively okay in the Heroic trial raid. And they told me: You're doing nice DPS for your ilvl, but you need to get better gear and HoA by next reset or you're out. I could have. There is nothing hard about farming Island Expeditions. Farming M+15 wasn't that hard if I didn't mind missing timer every now and then due to pugs (as well as my own mistakes). My guildmates were grinding the same dungeons over and over again in hopes of getting that trinket or weapon with the best corruption and sockets. And they were angry when they didn't get them yet another run. Eventually they would get them and then they get to raid. But would I enjoy doing ONLY that in my free time? Nope. So I made a choice. I decided to give up raiding as a whole and so instead of spending 30 hours grinding gear, azerite and raiding, I would spend 15 hours doing content I enjoy more and then another 15 hours working on my dream. AAAAND the post below is a prime example of what I am talking about ->

You're being sub-optimal, man. You shit at work, when you get home you piss and during the raid pause. Sleep 6h these three or four nights, shower in 15 minutes and not 30 (your water bill will thank you too) and use prepared meals/fast cooking stuff like pasta on raiding nights. There you have it. Yes, you sacrifice a bit of sleep and your finest salad twice a week, but that's pretty much it. The issue is if you feel raiding as a second job instead of a cool moment as you said.

Other than that, you'll clear the raid faster if you git gud. Better pewpew, less sacrifice

This is a prime example of a person who is "doing something wrong with their life". Mate, not only am I not being sub-optimal, I am actually a happy and content young adult, who is working on their dreams and making steady progress and who is taking a serious care of their body, health, relationship, family and friends, whilst working 9 hour night shifts and feeding 4 people. What you are is an adult who is SLACKING in life.

Find a guild with a schedule that fits you. I have a full time job and a family too, and the majority of my guild as well.
We still run for (and achieve) CE with two raiding days and a total of 5 hours per week. We run late raids 21:30-00:00 which is perfect for me since it's after bed time for the kids.

My problem though is making time for everything outside of raids, I struggle to complete my M+, torghast and campaign within a reset. And I already had to forget about the Maw.

- - - Updated - - -

In what kind of dream world does one spend a bare minimum of one hour a day having sex? I'm clearly failing at life.

Alright, 5 hours a week is actually a lot less than I thought possible. But I would not sacrifice Torghast and Campaign, leveling alts, etc for the sake of raiding. Those are the things I love about WoW. No point in raiding if I cannot do the actual things I need that gear/mounts for (immersion and solo challenge progression).

Do you have sex every day? If not, why? If yes, do you have any foreplay or just satisfy yourself and leave your wife just hanging there? If not, why? If yes, how much foreplay do you give her? Now I know that "quickies" exist, but damn, that should not be the standard.



Also to everyone in this thread who claims to be managing getting CE every patch whilst being a working adult:
How many hours a week do you excercise? How many hours a week do you cook? How many hours a week do you spend reading/researching things (with the idea of bettering your life, learning new things, doing some brain exercise)? How many hours a week do you spend in nature? How many hours a week do you dedicate to family, friends, kids, girlfriend, etc? How many hours per week do you get? Is your current job the job of your dreams? If not, how many hours a week are you dedicating to making your dream a reality? I will repeat YET AGAIN - I do not think it is impossible for an adult to get CE. I know many who do. What I am saying is: You are compromising your life. If you disagree, feel free to answer the above questions in detail and try to prove me wrong.


- - - Updated - - -

List he made says all you need to know about him.

Dream sounds about right.

Feel free to elaborate on what in my list sounds so dream-like.

[jazen]

Full time work, wife, kid, dog. Time commitments outside wow are more important, so I cut way back on the amount I play. Don't have anything even close to a schedule to play, other than from 4:30-5:30 am, before I leave for work. I don't begrudge those that have the time to play, as I occasionally miss long raid nights.

[Hypasonic]

So thread started with "full time job" and now its "full time job, wife, kids, cooking, sex, working out, eating sleeping, breathing" Really?

If you *only* have a full time job then getting CE is incredibly easy. If you have a wife and kids, its possible but shouldn't really be top of your priorities.

[Twdft]

Did I say having a serious hobby is doing something wrong with your life?

Yes you literally did, and i quote you again, write:

If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life

Getting CE is a serious hobby like thousands of others and not doing life wrong. But it seems what you actually think is that getting CE isn't possible without no-lifing the game. Which isn't true.

In order to get CE you need to dedicate yourself to it. Which means you cannot dedicate yourself to other things.

CE isn't world first. CE just means clearing the raid on mythic before the next raid comes out about 4 months later.

[erifwodahs]

A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

56 hours of sleep
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way
3 hours of exercise
3 hours of toilet
2 hours of shower
7-20 hours of sex


[/B]

56 hours of sleep - 49 is more than enough for most.
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking - optional, but can swing both ways.
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way. Depends (work from home)
3 hours of exercise could be more
3 hours of toilet - WTF? I mean most of that is at work anyway, but wtf do you have to do to spend 30min every day in the toilet?
2 hours of shower - 5 minute showers. Saves water and time. Unless you need to think about climate change or something..
7-20 hours of sex - depends, but i don't think it's normal to fuck for 3h every day. I mean make it 10 and I would call it exercise.

Most of the time can be saved by skipping all the useless media crap. Even these forums

[Nootz]

I got CE in Mists and WoD every tier working 40-60 hours per week. Granted I wasn't married or had kids, but it was definitely doable then. The only thing that's made recent CE's more difficult is the time commitment early to gearing. You fall behind and you're benched. Shadowlands isn't as bad as BFA or Legion about that aspect of the CE raid scene and typically you'd want to find a guild that knows what to expect out of their raiders.

[erifwodahs]

If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life AND/OR you have perfect time management and efficiency in absolutely everything you do including taking the fastest shits ever.

So... if you have time for... fishing? Or a TV Show? Cooking? What about time on commenting on WoW forums? This one must be really a definition of doing something wrong with my life

[Logwyn]

7-20 hours of sex

This stat should allow Blizzard to just give a person with it Cutting Edge no questions asked.

CE is like anything else. You have time for what you want to have time for. You just have to shift things around. Just the management of resources like everything else.

[Molov]

This is a prime example of a person who is "doing something wrong with their life". Mate, not only am I not being sub-optimal, I am actually a happy and content young adult, who is working on their dreams and making steady progress and who is taking a serious care of their body, health, relationship, family and friends, whilst working 9 hour night shifts and feeding 4 people. What you are is an adult who is SLACKING in life.

That's the answer I hoped for. Because it shows that you're mostly a self-centered judgemental idiot ready to jump to conclusions based only on your pre-conceived ideas. I have a full time job in the carrer I've always wanted and which I studied 5 years for and getting all the trainings I've wanted for free. Along with that I have a half-time job I can do at home for some extra cash. I'm very happy with my GF and I see my friends and family often. I don't have kids because none of us want any so it's not an issue. I have some spare time to progress on my guitar skills. I'm actually a lot happier now than when I was actually playing the game 24/7. I still have time to raid like twice a week and do some PVP (working my way to 2K4, got at 2K right now, so quite satisfied so far)

[Einsz]

A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

56 hours of sleep
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way
3 hours of exercise
3 hours of toilet
2 hours of shower
7-20 hours of sex

And mind you, this is me being absolutely nuts when it comes to discipline and time management. I managed to calculate every single minute I spend on daily/weekly activities and tried to be as optimal as possible, creating a few hours a day for gaming

Most guilds in top50-100 spend around 9-12h raiding a week, most don't do stupid activities such as xmog, mount, pet battles, nobody is farming gear apart from 1 weekly m+ run only investing more time into that 1st week of the patch, when m+ cap increases, nobody is farming mats - most guilds once they clear content bring 1 buyer a week to their main raid to pay for consumables for entire guild + for some profit for raiders. Also after 2 months you raid like 2h a week.

You don't need 8h of sleep everyday, 7h is enough to optimally perform. 7h a week more for you
7 hours of eating... do you eat rocks or something? Easily 2-3h more for you
3h of cooking...sure that seems reasonable.
5h travel time to work...okay I can agree with that
3h of exercise... 3x 30min a week is enough to achieve health/fitness goal, nope you don't need to spend 15min extra in the gym chatting with your "buddies"
3h of toilet... something is wrong there, easily can shave 1h off
2h of shower... 10min is more than enough for shower
7-20h of sex... i mean how... you should see a specialist about it

Your discipline and time management sucks. That's why you don't have time for stuff.

[CcB]

You're being sub-optimal, man. You shit at work, when you get home you piss and during the raid pause. Sleep 6h these three or four nights, shower in 15 minutes and not 30 (your water bill will thank you too) and use prepared meals/fast cooking stuff like pasta on raiding nights. There you have it. Yes, you sacrifice a bit of sleep and your finest salad twice a week, but that's pretty much it. The issue is if you feel raiding as a second job instead of a cool moment as you said.

Other than that, you'll clear the raid faster if you git gud. Better pewpew, less sacrifice

Sacraficing sleep is absurdly unhealthy and detramental to your longevity. Why would you eat a sub-par meal instead of enjoying the time cooking with your wife, girlfriend, or kids? And sitting down and enjoying that meal with them. At what point do you prioritize those gaming friends more than your real life priorities or goals to achieve them?

[zortport]

Most guilds in top50-100 spend around 9-12h raiding a week.

you are clueless if you believe this

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

I was raiding even when I had shitty 14 hours shifts with my shitty underpaid job I had to take back in the days. There is always a way if you're a true gamer.
Unlike dudes like this shinrael who is the perfect example of someone searching for excuses..."lol got CE first week? no lifer lel"
Also telling people how to live their lives...pathetic.