End game when you have a full time job

[jazen]

Full time work, wife, kid, dog. Time commitments outside wow are more important, so I cut way back on the amount I play. Don't have anything even close to a schedule to play, other than from 4:30-5:30 am, before I leave for work. I don't begrudge those that have the time to play, as I occasionally miss long raid nights.

[Hypasonic]

So thread started with "full time job" and now its "full time job, wife, kids, cooking, sex, working out, eating sleeping, breathing" Really?

If you *only* have a full time job then getting CE is incredibly easy. If you have a wife and kids, its possible but shouldn't really be top of your priorities.

[Twdft]

Did I say having a serious hobby is doing something wrong with your life?

Yes you literally did, and i quote you again, write:

If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life

Getting CE is a serious hobby like thousands of others and not doing life wrong. But it seems what you actually think is that getting CE isn't possible without no-lifing the game. Which isn't true.

In order to get CE you need to dedicate yourself to it. Which means you cannot dedicate yourself to other things.

CE isn't world first. CE just means clearing the raid on mythic before the next raid comes out about 4 months later.

[erifwodahs]

A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

56 hours of sleep
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way
3 hours of exercise
3 hours of toilet
2 hours of shower
7-20 hours of sex


[/B]

56 hours of sleep - 49 is more than enough for most.
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking - optional, but can swing both ways.
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way. Depends (work from home)
3 hours of exercise could be more
3 hours of toilet - WTF? I mean most of that is at work anyway, but wtf do you have to do to spend 30min every day in the toilet?
2 hours of shower - 5 minute showers. Saves water and time. Unless you need to think about climate change or something..
7-20 hours of sex - depends, but i don't think it's normal to fuck for 3h every day. I mean make it 10 and I would call it exercise.

Most of the time can be saved by skipping all the useless media crap. Even these forums

[Nootz]

I got CE in Mists and WoD every tier working 40-60 hours per week. Granted I wasn't married or had kids, but it was definitely doable then. The only thing that's made recent CE's more difficult is the time commitment early to gearing. You fall behind and you're benched. Shadowlands isn't as bad as BFA or Legion about that aspect of the CE raid scene and typically you'd want to find a guild that knows what to expect out of their raiders.

[erifwodahs]

If you have time to get Cutting Edge then you are most likely doing something wrong with your life AND/OR you have perfect time management and efficiency in absolutely everything you do including taking the fastest shits ever.

So... if you have time for... fishing? Or a TV Show? Cooking? What about time on commenting on WoW forums? This one must be really a definition of doing something wrong with my life

[Logwyn]

7-20 hours of sex

This stat should allow Blizzard to just give a person with it Cutting Edge no questions asked.

CE is like anything else. You have time for what you want to have time for. You just have to shift things around. Just the management of resources like everything else.

[Molov]

This is a prime example of a person who is "doing something wrong with their life". Mate, not only am I not being sub-optimal, I am actually a happy and content young adult, who is working on their dreams and making steady progress and who is taking a serious care of their body, health, relationship, family and friends, whilst working 9 hour night shifts and feeding 4 people. What you are is an adult who is SLACKING in life.

That's the answer I hoped for. Because it shows that you're mostly a self-centered judgemental idiot ready to jump to conclusions based only on your pre-conceived ideas. I have a full time job in the carrer I've always wanted and which I studied 5 years for and getting all the trainings I've wanted for free. Along with that I have a half-time job I can do at home for some extra cash. I'm very happy with my GF and I see my friends and family often. I don't have kids because none of us want any so it's not an issue. I have some spare time to progress on my guitar skills. I'm actually a lot happier now than when I was actually playing the game 24/7. I still have time to raid like twice a week and do some PVP (working my way to 2K4, got at 2K right now, so quite satisfied so far)

[Einsz]

A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

56 hours of sleep
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way
3 hours of exercise
3 hours of toilet
2 hours of shower
7-20 hours of sex

And mind you, this is me being absolutely nuts when it comes to discipline and time management. I managed to calculate every single minute I spend on daily/weekly activities and tried to be as optimal as possible, creating a few hours a day for gaming

Most guilds in top50-100 spend around 9-12h raiding a week, most don't do stupid activities such as xmog, mount, pet battles, nobody is farming gear apart from 1 weekly m+ run only investing more time into that 1st week of the patch, when m+ cap increases, nobody is farming mats - most guilds once they clear content bring 1 buyer a week to their main raid to pay for consumables for entire guild + for some profit for raiders. Also after 2 months you raid like 2h a week.

You don't need 8h of sleep everyday, 7h is enough to optimally perform. 7h a week more for you
7 hours of eating... do you eat rocks or something? Easily 2-3h more for you
3h of cooking...sure that seems reasonable.
5h travel time to work...okay I can agree with that
3h of exercise... 3x 30min a week is enough to achieve health/fitness goal, nope you don't need to spend 15min extra in the gym chatting with your "buddies"
3h of toilet... something is wrong there, easily can shave 1h off
2h of shower... 10min is more than enough for shower
7-20h of sex... i mean how... you should see a specialist about it

Your discipline and time management sucks. That's why you don't have time for stuff.

[zortport]

Most guilds in top50-100 spend around 9-12h raiding a week.

you are clueless if you believe this

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

I was raiding even when I had shitty 14 hours shifts with my shitty underpaid job I had to take back in the days. There is always a way if you're a true gamer.
Unlike dudes like this shinrael who is the perfect example of someone searching for excuses..."lol got CE first week? no lifer lel"
Also telling people how to live their lives...pathetic.

[deenman]

Did I say having a serious hobby is doing something wrong with your life? No, that is not what I said. What I said is that, if you are serious about your life, family, friends, kids, work, HEALTH, self-maintenance, etc, then you suddenly end up with far less time than a no-lifer would. And after all that time has been taken by daily/weekly activities, you're left with the choice whether to spend it all grinding gear which you will replace in 6 months... or doing something else that will net a permanent gain. Such as mount/mog farming, gold making, leveling alts, OR even doing things outside of WoW. In order to get CE you need to dedicate yourself to it. Which means you cannot dedicate yourself to other things. And in life you need to dedicate yourself to a lot of things. Sadly.



Jesus, what the actual fuck did you read indeed, now I am curious 50 minutes of foreplay and 10 minutes of sex is such an alien thing here on the gaming forums? Should have figured.........



4-5 nights a week is not 2 hours a week xD You kinda contradict yourself. 4-5 nights a week is a big amount of time you spend only on raiding. And while in Shadowlands you don't need much maintance for your main, in BFA and Legion for example you had to farm Artifact Power for hours. I know people who got benched from a Mythic raid team (rather casual one at that) for having a low ilvl HoA.



Well, if you one shot every fight then sure, you can make it. But how realistic is that? Once again I repeat - I am not saying it's impossible for adult. I am saying is that you are probably not doing other things which you SHOULD be doing too. Working out, 10 km walking/running a day, cooking, working, self-care, family, friends, kids. Does someone cook for you? Do you pay enough attention to your wife? Are you healthy enough? Do you pay enough attention to your kids? Do you have any dreams you're working on? Or do you have the dream job already and are the happiest person in the world?

Look, I am not the best player out there. I am casual. I started raiding in MoP doing Normal SoO with 1 fps (not exaggeration). Got into Heroic via pugs and later leading my own guild in 7.3.5 Antorus when I finally had normal FPS. I lived in Japan so I was waking up at 2 am at night so I can raid with my guildmates at 3 am Japan time. We did 3 raid nights a week for 2-3 hours each. So while I haven't done Mythic raiding, I have doine RAIDING and the time I spent on it is not less than it would be, if I were doing Mythic. I am familiar with the sacrifices one must make in order to dedicate themselves to a raiding schedule. So no, not commenting from the outside :P At the start of 8.3 I joined a Mythic guild. I was doing relatively okay in the Heroic trial raid. And they told me: You're doing nice DPS for your ilvl, but you need to get better gear and HoA by next reset or you're out. I could have. There is nothing hard about farming Island Expeditions. Farming M+15 wasn't that hard if I didn't mind missing timer every now and then due to pugs (as well as my own mistakes). My guildmates were grinding the same dungeons over and over again in hopes of getting that trinket or weapon with the best corruption and sockets. And they were angry when they didn't get them yet another run. Eventually they would get them and then they get to raid. But would I enjoy doing ONLY that in my free time? Nope. So I made a choice. I decided to give up raiding as a whole and so instead of spending 30 hours grinding gear, azerite and raiding, I would spend 15 hours doing content I enjoy more and then another 15 hours working on my dream. AAAAND the post below is a prime example of what I am talking about ->



This is a prime example of a person who is "doing something wrong with their life". Mate, not only am I not being sub-optimal, I am actually a happy and content young adult, who is working on their dreams and making steady progress and who is taking a serious care of their body, health, relationship, family and friends, whilst working 9 hour night shifts and feeding 4 people. What you are is an adult who is SLACKING in life.



Alright, 5 hours a week is actually a lot less than I thought possible. But I would not sacrifice Torghast and Campaign, leveling alts, etc for the sake of raiding. Those are the things I love about WoW. No point in raiding if I cannot do the actual things I need that gear/mounts for (immersion and solo challenge progression).

Do you have sex every day? If not, why? If yes, do you have any foreplay or just satisfy yourself and leave your wife just hanging there? If not, why? If yes, how much foreplay do you give her? Now I know that "quickies" exist, but damn, that should not be the standard.



Also to everyone in this thread who claims to be managing getting CE every patch whilst being a working adult:
How many hours a week do you excercise? How many hours a week do you cook? How many hours a week do you spend reading/researching things (with the idea of bettering your life, learning new things, doing some brain exercise)? How many hours a week do you spend in nature? How many hours a week do you dedicate to family, friends, kids, girlfriend, etc? How many hours per week do you get? Is your current job the job of your dreams? If not, how many hours a week are you dedicating to making your dream a reality? I will repeat YET AGAIN - I do not think it is impossible for an adult to get CE. I know many who do. What I am saying is: You are compromising your life. If you disagree, feel free to answer the above questions in detail and try to prove me wrong.


- - - Updated - - -



Feel free to elaborate on what in my list sounds so dream-like.

I never said only 2 hours a week did i?if i did it was a mistake lol

[Selah]

OP, I'm right there with you. Grew up playing WoW from Vanilla to current. Then got married, had kids, work a full-time job, friends, hobbies, ect. ect.

Eventually, I arrived where you have. I don't have all the time in the world to do everything in the game. I had to take a step back and evaluate what I wanted from the game and what I enjoy most from the game... and then compare that to what I can do realistically for time. The conclusion I arrived at was that the reward of more intensive raiding wasn't enough to warrant the massive time investment required. Especially considering all of that effort would be erased the next raid patch. So instead I focused on the aspects I enjoy more and only do raiding as time permits.

Naturally, you may have a different value affixed to the idea of raiding and may decide to pursue it instead of something else. This is just a good point to really stop and evaluate what you're looking for from the game and if there are things more important to you than raiding that you would rather do. I know the amount of time I don't spend raiding is instead spent on either photography, violin practice, hiking, playing other games, D&D/DMing, writing, spending time with my kids/SO, and so on and so forth.

[clevin]

Hey all, just wanted to start a discussion on playing through the current (and I guess future) end game when you have a full time job. Like many I grew up playing this game and now have a full time job and far too many responsibilities to commit to a hardcore raid schedule. For the most part I'm wondering how you could get CE when you can't commit to a raid schedule.

From what I can see in Shadowlands, it looks like doing PvP to gear up properly and then getting into a mythic run with a friend in a couple months is the most optimal way. M+ gear just doesn't seem to have the ilvl. Would this be the best way to do so when you can't commit to a raid team?

OP asks question... vanishes. mmmm posting for reaction.

Here's the operative part of the above post:

For the most part I'm wondering how you could get CE when you can't commit to a raid schedule.

You can't aside from simply buying it. You have to commit to some kind of schedule. That might be 9 hours a week and you get CE 3+ months into the raid.... but you have to show up. No one else cares that you have other "...a full time job and far too many responsibilities...". If you can't show up for at least about 9 hours or so a week on a set schedule, you aren't doing your part.

That's fine. It's your choice.

[Shinrael]

Yes you literally did, and i quote you again, write:

Getting CE is a serious hobby like thousands of others and not doing life wrong. But it seems what you actually think is that getting CE isn't possible without no-lifing the game. Which isn't true.

CE isn't world first. CE just means clearing the raid on mythic before the next raid comes out about 4 months later.

The hobby in this case is games/WoW. There is nothing wrong with it being a serious hobby. CE is a goal within that hobby. The question is, how serious can you be about it before you start compromising on things in life (and also within WoW as well). A lot of raiders here in this topic admitted to skipping out on everything else in WoW for the sake of raiding. Those that didn't admitted to compromising on sleep, meals, family, etc. Now, there is nothing inherently bad with just fighting raid bosses non-stop. It develops your reflexes, etc. But if it comes at the expense of other things - then something is wrong. You are practically running on an endless gear treadmill. It doesn't different much from a gambling addiction. I don't need to explain why addictions are bad, do I? And my question was - how much time do you pour into everything else - if you feel confident you are not an addict and that you are living a good life, feel free to post your weekly stats here.

56 hours of sleep - 49 is more than enough for most.
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking - optional, but can swing both ways.
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way. Depends (work from home)
3 hours of exercise could be more
3 hours of toilet - WTF? I mean most of that is at work anyway, but wtf do you have to do to spend 30min every day in the toilet?
2 hours of shower - 5 minute showers. Saves water and time. Unless you need to think about climate change or something..
7-20 hours of sex - depends, but i don't think it's normal to fuck for 3h every day. I mean make it 10 and I would call it exercise.

Most of the time can be saved by skipping all the useless media crap. Even these forums

Define "enough". There is no such thing. A lot of people will say "7 hours is enough for me". but then the same is true for the "I need at least 9 hours" (or more) people. The 7 hour sleepers are definitely not the most. Majority of people require more sleep. Also, even if you wake up after 7 hours of sleep without an alarm, that doesn't mean it is enough. I have had periods in my life where I would wake up naturally (without alarms or external causes) after 3 hours of sleep. Does that mean it was enough? No. I had a health issue and after researching into it and fixing the cause, I returned to sleeping exactly 8 hours without alarms. Thing is that majority of people don't even realize they have health/sleep issues. How energetic are you throughout the day? How much do you exercise? How grumpy/friendly are you towards people? These (and many other factors) can be symptoms of sleep deprivation. And EVEN if 7 hours was enough for you, what we are considering here in this topic is not YOU but working adults in general. Which means that we have to consider that most adults will not be YOU and might need more than 7 hours. You might be okay with compromising your health (not saying 7 hours is a compromise 100%, but it COULD be), but in this topic we are discussing if it is possible to get CE WITHOUT compromises.

3 hours of cooking is a bare minimum I set upon myself - because currently I live alone and there is no need to cook every day. In a situation where you have a family of at least 3 people, cooking 1-2 times a week will likely not be enough. Unless your wife does all the cooking for you and your kids. That would be convenient, right?

Also I did not even include time for cleaning. That is where I make my own compromises for my own dream. Ideally, you would spend some time cleaning every day. Or does your wife do that for you?

Whether you work from home or not, you still have to do groceries. Fresh vegetables and so on won't just come knock on your door. Unless someone does that for you. Feel free to share.

3 hours of exercise is indeed little. Feel free to share how much you do per week.

How many times do you shit per day? Once? A healthy body does it multiple times a day (usually after each meal if you eat enough fiber) and the timing is not of your choosing. It might come while you are at work or it might come before you go to work and then after you come back from work again. Do you not pee? Do you not wash your hands? All this time adds up. 30 minutes per day might seem like a lot, but it really isn't. Also do mind that I have excluded things like grooming, which take time too.

5 minute showers? That's a big compromise on your hygiene. I hope your wife doesn't see this post.

3h every day is indeed a lot. Some people have higher libido and/or like to do longer foreplays. Anything below 1h a day is a compromise on your relationship one way or another. Keep in mind this is an average for the entire week. It could be a 20 min quickie one day but 2h the next day, etc.

Skipping forums and media is indeed a good way to save time. I had vowed not to open this forum and had succeeded for a long time as writing these posts... is before anything - TIRING. Because people just like to gang up on you and deny you without even knowing you. And such people are just sad. I opened the box of pandora and am now suffering for it. This thread is a good reminder of why I should not open this forum But I just happen to have tons of free time during work (8 out of 9 hour shifts) sooooooo here I am.

So... if you have time for... fishing? Or a TV Show? Cooking? What about time on commenting on WoW forums? This one must be really a definition of doing something wrong with my life

Yeah, I agree. Browsing this forum definitely makes me guilty of that accusation :P But it does take less time than doing Mythic and I can do it during work so :P Don't understand what you are trying to say in the rest of your post though.

This stat should allow Blizzard to just give a person with it Cutting Edge no questions asked.

CE is like anything else. You have time for what you want to have time for. You just have to shift things around. Just the management of resources like everything else.

If you are okay with spending all your free time and even "shift things around" (a.k.a compromising on hygiene, sleep, exercise, family, friends, responsibilities) so you can run on an endless gear treadmill, then I strongly believe there is something wrong with your life. "Management of resources" is just a nicer way of saying "slacking on responsibilities" and so on.

That's the answer I hoped for. Because it shows that you're mostly a self-centered judgemental idiot ready to jump to conclusions based only on your pre-conceived ideas. I have a full time job in the carrer I've always wanted and which I studied 5 years for and getting all the trainings I've wanted for free. Along with that I have a half-time job I can do at home for some extra cash. I'm very happy with my GF and I see my friends and family often. I don't have kids because none of us want any so it's not an issue. I have some spare time to progress on my guitar skills. I'm actually a lot happier now than when I was actually playing the game 24/7. I still have time to raid like twice a week and do some PVP (working my way to 2K4, got at 2K right now, so quite satisfied so far)

Mate, you had me at "sleeping 6 hours a day and eating instant foods". No point trying to play it cool at this point.
Though I am curious: Do you get CE by raiding twice a week whilst doing PvP as well? That would be impressive.
Either way you only help my point when you say that not spending 24/7 on the game made you happier. WELL DUH..?!

Most guilds in top50-100 spend around 9-12h raiding a week, most don't do stupid activities such as xmog, mount, pet battles, nobody is farming gear apart from 1 weekly m+ run only investing more time into that 1st week of the patch, when m+ cap increases, nobody is farming mats - most guilds once they clear content bring 1 buyer a week to their main raid to pay for consumables for entire guild + for some profit for raiders. Also after 2 months you raid like 2h a week.

You don't need 8h of sleep everyday, 7h is enough to optimally perform. 7h a week more for you
7 hours of eating... do you eat rocks or something? Easily 2-3h more for you
3h of cooking...sure that seems reasonable.
5h travel time to work...okay I can agree with that
3h of exercise... 3x 30min a week is enough to achieve health/fitness goal, nope you don't need to spend 15min extra in the gym chatting with your "buddies"
3h of toilet... something is wrong there, easily can shave 1h off
2h of shower... 10min is more than enough for shower
7-20h of sex... i mean how... you should see a specialist about it

Your discipline and time management sucks. That's why you don't have time for stuff.

"Stupid activities such as xmog, mount, bla bla" lol If appreciating art is a stupid activity, I don't know what to say about running on an endless gear treadmill to satisfy a gambling addiction (or other worse issues).

I answered the sleep point above.
3 meals x 20 minutes a day makes for 7 hours a week. Chewing too fast is a compromise on your health. Not eating complex carbohydrates (whole grains/vegetables) and/or enough protein is a compromise on your health. And eating those for every meal takes time. Much more time than eating simple carbs and fats. I also eat fish every day which takes a lot more time to eat due to bones, etc. Not eating fish (or other sources of healthy fats) is a compromise on your health. If you tell me you eat all these foods and have a proper nutrition plan and you manage to eat in less than 7 hours a week, I say you are bullshitting :P Oh and yeah, you need at least 3 meals a day. That brain needs to be supplied with carbs regularly to avoid bullshit posting like all the people in this thread.

3x 30 min exercise a week is nowhere near enough. You need to walk/job 10 km a day on top of doing minimal dose of strength training (which could be 3x20 min a week :P). And no I don't spend 15 min in the gym chatting with buddies. I workout at home and outside.

I have answered the toilet point above.
10 min could be enough for a quick shower, yeah. Do you immedietely jump out of the bathroom still wet and start playing though? No drying process? Or do you time travel? Add ATLEAST 5 min for drying and thats 15 min per day resulting in 1 hour 45 minutes - 2 hours a week.

The sex part I explained like 5 times already but alright, be my guest - 50 minutes of foreplay and 10 min sex every day. IS IT THAT HARD TO IMAGINE? Are you people okay? Are you like.... performing your most vital function as a man properly? Anything below 1 a week day for your girlfriend/wife is a compromise on your relationship.

I am easily managing all the tasks and responsibilities I have set upon myself and still have tons of free time for the things I enjoy doing. I would say my discipline and time management are excellent, but thank you for the guess.

Sacraficing sleep is absurdly unhealthy and detramental to your longevity. Why would you eat a sub-par meal instead of enjoying the time cooking with your wife, girlfriend, or kids? And sitting down and enjoying that meal with them. At what point do you prioritize those gaming friends more than your real life priorities or goals to achieve them?

This. Nothing wrong with getting CE but for godsake people, don't come bragging you've got CE when you are living a life full of compromises. It's pathetic.

I was raiding even when I had shitty 14 hours shifts with my shitty underpaid job I had to take back in the days. There is always a way if you're a true gamer.
Unlike dudes like this shinrael who is the perfect example of someone searching for excuses..."lol got CE first week? no lifer lel"
Also telling people how to live their lives...pathetic.

I am searching for excuses? I have made a concious choice what to put my priorities on in life. I owe excuses to no one. And I am not telling you how to live your lives. I am telling you that you are getting that CE at a cost. And the OP asks how do people do it without paying the cost? And my answer is: You don't. You either pay the price to be a "true gamer" (lol) or you don't get CE. It's not about whether you can get it or not. It's about whether you make compromises or not. And whilst claiming to not be making such, you all seem to actually make a lot - sleep, health, family, friends, cooking, cleaning, diet, etc, etc, etc, etc. Like, seriously, in a previous post I told you - either post your entire weekly schedule here or don't come claiming to have CE and not make any compromises for it.

I never said only 2 hours a week did i?if i did it was a mistake lol

Sorry, I got confused by the wording. I see now it was 2 hours per raid night. And since it's 4-5 nights a week, thats 8-10 hours a week. Yeah, that is a lot of time which requires you to give up on other things.

[Molov]

Sacraficing sleep is absurdly unhealthy and detramental to your longevity. Why would you eat a sub-par meal instead of enjoying the time cooking with your wife, girlfriend, or kids? And sitting down and enjoying that meal with them. At what point do you prioritize those gaming friends more than your real life priorities or goals to achieve them?

It's not a question of priorities, it's more about needs and ways of functioning. I don't raid, but let's suppose I do 3 times a week for the sake of the situation: I'm one of those who need less sleep and are fine with about 6 hours, and sleeping 6 instead of 8 every other day is not that unhealthy, or your health is incredibly fragile. I enjoy eating with my GF all other days of the week and basically it's how we work upon; she also does her stuff while i'm raiding and she likes these moments she has for herself, like we don't NEED that EVERY DAY. We already are like that even though I don't raid. It's just a question of finding someone that matches you and the balance in your life. My real life priorities are met and i'm reaching my goals (more below).

Mate, you had me at "sleeping 6 hours a day and eating instant foods". No point trying to play it cool at this point.
Though I am curious: Do you get CE by raiding twice a week whilst doing PvP as well? That would be impressive.
Either way you only help my point when you say that not spending 24/7 on the game made you happier. WELL DUH..?!

Not trying to play it cool. Just that some people don't need 8 hours, furthermore I wouldn't appreciate my life if I had to force myself to sleep 8 hours, and spending hours cooking because I just hate it and that's not how I work. I do it yeah, ofc i have to, but telling myself that this is how it must be everyday would feel like a burden.

I don't raid anymore, but with my current life I could spend about 3 nights a week raiding. Several guilds manage to pull off CE while raiding 2 or 3 nights, just not within the first month or two of the raid of course, unless the 20 of them are godlike players. PvP doesn't take that long unless you're aiming for R1, but this one really depends on your skills, your teammates' skills and if you can find the right comp (especially in SL...). It's really not impressive because you can get your CE last minute when your gear is almost as good as what the raid drops and you have a whole season to get a good rating like somewhere between duelist and gladiator (R1 is impressive by itself so not counting it).

No problem in helping your point there, I agree that having other things in life than WoW makes you happier than just playing the game. What i'm saying is that a satisfying life, with at least a full time job (the rest is quite random; not everybody has a GF/kids for example, so it's complicated to force those things into the equation), is not incompatible with raiding 2/3 nights a week, unless you're psychorigid and everything must be exactly perfect the way you think it must be and on repeat. Life, for me, would be miserable if I had to get at least 8 hours of sleep everyday, had to do 45 minutes of workout everyday, cook and eat home made food everyday, never drink, never smoke (I don't smoke), etc just for the sake of feeling like i'm 'not doing something wrong with my life' or be as healthy as I can be so I can live as long as possible not doing what I like (which is completely subjective and not what fits everybody; hence the huge discussion you're in with several people). Changing things a bit it's what I like and how I can fit 3 nights of raiding, that's why I also chose my job, tomorrow won't the same as today, and I think that's the case for a lot of people too. For example this last week I couldn't even get my 3rd chest doing solely arena due to the holidays and that's ok, but next week I'll probably have plenty of time. That doesn't mean they are throwing their life away, especially if they enjoy it. But I think the big difference in our ideologies is in that you're over 30 y/o (You wrote it somewhere I believe. If not I'm sorry for assuming) while I'm barely over 25, so we are not in front of the same things.

[erifwodahs]

Skipping forums and media is indeed a good way to save time. I had vowed not to open this forum and had succeeded for a long time as writing these posts... is before anything - TIRING. Because people just like to gang up on you and deny you without even knowing you. And such people are just sad. I opened the box of pandora and am now suffering for it. This thread is a good reminder of why I should not open this forum But I just happen to have tons of free time during work (8 out of 9 hour shifts) sooooooo here I am.

Yeah, I agree. Browsing this forum definitely makes me guilty of that accusation :P But it does take less time than doing Mythic and I can do it during work so :P Don't understand what you are trying to say in the rest of your post though.

This was just humor the whole argument. Min-maxing life is certainly not my thing. Personally I am not spontaneous as such but I prefer not to have everything planned besides the direction "at some point this spring I will fly to meet some friends" or "I will eat out today" but no definitive locations or time constraints applied. Tho it's very rare occasion when I find one time waste more valuable than other (exercise i.e.) but WoW, Airsoft, Books or watching a series is sort of the same level - low cost time spender essentially with no real net gain besides fun.

[Frozenbeef]

It's not that I don't have the time, it's the fact raiding is boring as hell (along with having to commit to a schedule) I just don't find it fun, especially after 15 years of gear being replaced, there's just no point putting the effort into that.

WTB more content like visions where you can solo them and increase the difficulty to get better rewards

[Shinrael]

It's not a question of priorities, it's more about needs and ways of functioning. I don't raid, but let's suppose I do 3 times a week for the sake of the situation: I'm one of those who need less sleep and are fine with about 6 hours, and sleeping 6 instead of 8 every other day is not that unhealthy, or your health is incredibly fragile. I enjoy eating with my GF all other days of the week and basically it's how we work upon; she also does her stuff while i'm raiding and she likes these moments she has for herself, like we don't NEED that EVERY DAY. We already are like that even though I don't raid. It's just a question of finding someone that matches you and the balance in your life. My real life priorities are met and i'm reaching my goals (more below).



Not trying to play it cool. Just that some people don't need 8 hours, furthermore I wouldn't appreciate my life if I had to force myself to sleep 8 hours, and spending hours cooking because I just hate it and that's not how I work. I do it yeah, ofc i have to, but telling myself that this is how it must be everyday would feel like a burden.

I don't raid anymore, but with my current life I could spend about 3 nights a week raiding. Several guilds manage to pull off CE while raiding 2 or 3 nights, just not within the first month or two of the raid of course, unless the 20 of them are godlike players. PvP doesn't take that long unless you're aiming for R1, but this one really depends on your skills, your teammates' skills and if you can find the right comp (especially in SL...). It's really not impressive because you can get your CE last minute when your gear is almost as good as what the raid drops and you have a whole season to get a good rating like somewhere between duelist and gladiator (R1 is impressive by itself so not counting it).

No problem in helping your point there, I agree that having other things in life than WoW makes you happier than just playing the game. What i'm saying is that a satisfying life, with at least a full time job (the rest is quite random; not everybody has a GF/kids for example, so it's complicated to force those things into the equation), is not incompatible with raiding 2/3 nights a week, unless you're psychorigid and everything must be exactly perfect the way you think it must be and on repeat. Life, for me, would be miserable if I had to get at least 8 hours of sleep everyday, had to do 45 minutes of workout everyday, cook and eat home made food everyday, never drink, never smoke (I don't smoke), etc just for the sake of feeling like you're 'not doing something wrong with my life' or be as healthy as you can be so you can live as long as possible not doing what you like (which is completely subjective and not what fits everybody; hence the huge discussion you're in with several people). Changing things a bit it's what I like and how I can fit 3 nights of raiding, that's why I also chose my job, tomorrow won't the same as today, and I think that's the case for a lot of people too. For example this last week I couldn't even get my 3rd chest doing solely arena due to the holidays and that's ok, but next week I'll probably have plenty of time. That doesn't mean they are throwing their life away, especially if they enjoy it. But I think the big difference in our ideologies are in that you're over 30 y/o (You wrote it somewhere I believe. If not I'm sorry) while I'm barely over 25, so we are not in front of the same things despite somewhat similar situations (living with a SO at your own place, full time job...)

You don't need to force yourself to sleep 8 hours... the ideal situation is: You close your eyes. You open your eyes. It is now (about) 8 hours later.
If this is not how your sleep happens every night, then likely there is a problem somewhere in your body. Which might be fixable.

I insist on this point because I was among the people who would say 6 hours are enough. I would wake up every day after 3-6 hours of sleep and feel noticably more energetic than everyone else so I thought 3-6 hours are enough for me. Must have been some sort of super power aye? And then I graduated university and did some other changes to my lifestyle and suddenly I was travelling in time 8 hours every night. Best feeling ever. Now, I am back to having lots of dreams and often getting woken up by them. I am working on the problem and trying different solutions, eventually I will get back that best feeling ever of time travelling 8 hours a night. My point is - you can have better than what you currently have. You say you CBA doing workouts and stuff - is that because you feel tired? Or is there another reason? Because ultimately, you need some form of exercise in your life. And by the time it starts showing, it will be too late to fix - when you get to 40-50+ years and everything suddenly hurts, you get sick every month or worse - you get some life threatening shit like heart attack or insult and so on. You are just a human, like all of us. You might think you don't need it, but your human body does. And if the main reason is not having the energy for it - well, perhaps sleeping only 6 hours is not good for you after all :P And if the problem is time... well if you have time for raiding and games in general then you can't really use that excuse.

If raiding is an activity you genuinely enjoy then yes, I do agree. My problem with people is that they force themselves through things they don't necessarily enjoy in order to achieve some goal which they themselves don't know why they want to achieve. I understand it's not my place to tell people how to live their lives. But... there's so much more to life, you know. In your case, you do seem to be more content with your life than other posters here so I won't pry any further. A genuinely happy life is the most important thing, in my opinion. I am strict when it comes to my own health and productivity, because I want to die happy, fullfilled without pain and without regrets.

I am 24 btw and my fiancee is 23. Been a full-time night shift worker for 1 year now. 1 year ago I had to make my choice: Do I become a Mythic raider or do I quit raiding altogether and focus on things I enjoy. My job has a crazy low workload - sometimes I finish work in 15 minutes, more often in about 1 hour (out of a 9 hour shift) and I work from home so I can basically play games all I want. I did have the time for Mythic. I was close to having the skills and gear so I could get there if I put more effort into it. I just made the choice that I don't want to spend so much time every day on something I don't necessarily enjoy. I love getting more powerful but I don't need to be THE most powerful. And right after I made that choice I realized that I couldn't raid anymore anyway because most guilds raid during my sleep times and my realm was an Alliance RP server so close to zero chance to find a morning-noon raiding guild. Ever since then a huge burden was liften off of me and I've been enjoying a wider variety of games and hobbies than ever before. And now I am enjoying doing Torghast on multiple alts. I can entirely skip the gearing process on my 11 alts, because I can do lower Layers on them and only do Twisting Corridors and weekly Layer 8 on my main. And I can do all that whilst staying true to my ideal lifestyle.

I will be graduating from this thread as people tend to deny anything they don't understand and if I keep falling into their trigger traps it will only hurt my sanity more

[Kallisto]

This is accurate but OP didnt say "I have a full time job with a schedule that moves around" they just said "I have a full-time job" and most of us will assume, by that, that they work regular 9-5 hours.

In the case you put forth, it's not the full time hours that are the issue, it's the variability of those hours... and if that's the case, OP needs to tailor their expectations ike an adult. Part of being an adult is simply acknowledging that you can't always do everything you want. They can still play WoW and do a lot of endgame stuff... but maybe they can't any longer get CE. And is CE really important? I mean... it's a video game achievement. It doesnt mean you've seen more of the endgame, just that you've done it on t he hardest level.

As a full time job 9-5 is the extreme minority not the norm and hasn't been for some time unfortunately. The world is now 24/7 the person who has it all set out is the (depending on your view un)lucky ones. A lot of people could have a shift that allows them to be online during peak hours one week then not be online for those times for Well over a month. With days off each week swapping and changing.