End game when you have a full time job

[Shinrael]

I literaly dont understand the full time job no time thing....my guild is been getting CE since wod and around 90% ish of us have full time jobs,some have kids also,and they manage just fine to set aside 2-3 hours a few nigths a week....the only people with issues are the people that sometimes need to work different shifts when the raid is taking place,but thats rare and just 2 people

A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

56 hours of sleep
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way
3 hours of exercise
3 hours of toilet
2 hours of shower
7-20 hours of sex

That's 120 hours already. Now go out with your kids on Saturday and meet some friends on Sunday and you're down to 30 hours.
Do you spend that time doing 10 hours raiding, 10 hours grinding gear, reps, mats, powers, etc, 10 hours leveling characters?
Or do you spend that time working on your personal hobby project/greatest dream of your life?
Or do you maybe like.... sit back and enjoy life for a bit and rest?

And mind you, this is me being absolutely nuts when it comes to discipline and time management. I managed to calculate every single minute I spend on daily/weekly activities and tried to be as optimal as possible, creating a few hours a day for gaming - my fiancee is 10 000 km away and we are under quarantine so I don't need to worry about time spent with other people (friends, family, etc). AND STILL it is too much. And not only because it takes time but because... it feels like a second job :P Now imagine people who don't manage their time like me and are more social than me. Life, hello?

That said, I don't care about gear you will replace in 6 months so CE doesn't mean anything to me. But you said you don't understand so I was generous enough to do the math for you.

[zafran]

I keep getting this experience myself so I decided for me to retire from mythic raiding.
Blizzard has done a great job with pacing in terms of player power in sl imho. Throghast 2 Wings Layer 8 Clear and Covenant Quest thats roughly 2-3h a week.

This TBH.
Its been too long since i was able to breathecand chill in this game. I was able to level and gear up a second character, check out another covenant story without it affecting my progress.

[tyranade]

what is ce?

Cutting Edge.
Clearing Mythic before next raid comes out

[Greyvax]

you can typically clear normal and heroic (and a couple of mythic bosses) by just doing PUGS in the group finder. i haven't committed to a raid schedule since early legion and had no issues being able to raid. especially with CN, there are groups at nearly every boss, you can jump in, kill a boss or two, and hop out if you're pressed for time.

[ReVnX]

What do you get from obtaining CE?

Fulfilment?

[Loosecannon]

Hey all, just wanted to start a discussion on playing through the current (and I guess future) end game when you have a full time job. Like many I grew up playing this game and now have a full time job and far too many responsibilities to commit to a hardcore raid schedule. For the most part I'm wondering how you could get CE when you can't commit to a raid schedule.

From what I can see in Shadowlands, it looks like doing PvP to gear up properly and then getting into a mythic run with a friend in a couple months is the most optimal way. M+ gear just doesn't seem to have the ilvl. Would this be the best way to do so when you can't commit to a raid team?

Echoing what everyone here has said, it really depends on your job - if you work a regular hours, find a guild which raids with a schedule which fits your work schedule.

I work in a client serving (office) job where my hours are *super* variable, to the extent that I cannot say today what time I will finish tomorrow, or if I'll need to work this weekend. This obviously means it's impossible to reconcile that with a raid schedule unless the guild are super happy with really intermittent attendance - which is *not* most CE guilds.

This is why I didn't raid in Legion/BFA, and won't in Shadowlands beyond when my guild randomly had spots open, and the game for me for the last few tiers has been raid pugging and doing a lot of M+ (find some friends and try and just run with them when they're online, the smaller groups make it much more likely to find a good group like this).

It's not ideal, but I can't complain about it, it's life and if it gets in the way of a game, need to decide on priorities, WoW is a lot less important than food on my table and providing for my family.

[haiyken]

I nerver understand people having unreasonable expectation about what they can gain from the game without putting the time. OP clearly can't spend too much time in the game yet wants access to part of the game he can't reach without playing more. The answer is simple : reevaluate your expectations and your goals. The game can really be entertaining and enjoyable by having realistic expectation of what you can do, what you can reach. I personnally doesn't want to put the time to raid, even normal mode, and I'm fine with that. I play the game quite a lot and find a lot of things to do in order to progress my characters, have fun and play with friends. I know parts of the game are inaccessible and it's the way it is. It's a shame if the lack of time is linked to a job or commitments, but it's as simple as setting some priorities in life. I really think it's okay if players can't complete all the content in WoW or in any other games.

[apelsinjuice]

Why do you want CE if you can’t commit to a raid team?

because as a lot of people feel entitled to it just for buying a subscription he should be rewarded with the same stuff as everyone else, not even ahead of the curve is enoug, he needs cutting edge.

[Loosecannon]

A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

7-20 hours of sex

Solid flex.

[Coldkil]

I ended pugging all the m+ content and i do raid when i can. I lowered my standards to the AotC cause i don't give a damn about Mythic raiding or competition - because let's face it, most guild obsessed with WoWProgress and such are the ones that struggle the most, both on progress and guild climate.

I still have to optimize my play time. I can play only 2 evenings/week so that's basically all raid time until i decide to stay away for longer, which is not good since i wake up at 6AM. I focus in doing most of the rest during the weekend.

From what my experience told me, the biggest issue is not the job schedule itself or how much time you punt in the game, but actually WHEN you get to play. If most time is during peak hours, then you'll be fine. If you're like me and a lot of time is in other time windows, you're gonna have an harder time.

Yet, got past 600 r.io this week, am 5/10HC, and progressing with an alt aswell while leveling my third character. So i'm going a good pace (while i would still like to be able to do more).

[Cosmic Janitor]

9 to 5 and little social ties is the only workable solution I've found over the years that comes at least somewhat easily. There are a few mythic guilds that are okay with clearing the raid in 2/3 raid days after a couple of months before the next patch. If your schedule is constantly changing or during odd hours then you are at a significant disadvantage.

Everything else either requires you to be extremely good at the game, buying your way into groups that are or find that one unicorn guild out there that is skilled enough but puts up with your irregular schedule. I personally gave up on it despite having a rather managable work schedule, it's simply not worth it to structure my entire live around raid evenings instead of just going on casual dates and parties with friends. I mostly do m+ with smaller groups now that are easier to organize to fit each of our schedules and sometimes raid with people that kept up with raiding, essentially piggybacking their alt raids or if they happen to need a quick replacement.

[Twdft]

ye sure ... ofc you can ...

if you want soon to call your SO as EX and be a full time alimony payer.

its cute though how much people love to lie on internet

What kind of clingy needy relationships you been in that you can't have a couple hours "me time"... if you wife goes to the spa and hair dresser for 3 hours you always go with her so she isn't alone? If your husband goes to a neighbor to watch a game for 3 hours you always go with him? If you want to raid for 3 hours you can't because your SO doesn't let you?

People in healthy relationships do a lot together but it's also perfectly healthy to have a couple hours me time without getting devorced.

Kids of course complicate things a lot.

[Weeps]

Grad school, full time, parent of 2 kids, a new puppy... my plate is really full at the moment but if I wanted to, I could definitely make time for raiding. Anyone can.

If you sit down in front of Google Sheets or Excel, you can create your weekly schedule. It helps A LOT to be able to follow a schedule

[ifrah]

ye sure ... ofc you can ...

if you want soon to call your SO as EX and be a full time alimony payer.

its cute though how much people love to lie on internet

Was this about playing full time, no? Not everyone have sacrificed themselves under some control freak. End game != world first pace progress week in, week out.

[-Zo-]

There's no getting around it being a big time commitment, but I'm not really seeing an "either or" with CE and a full time job. If you throw in a bunch of other stuff, then sure, you need to choose what you want to do. The difficult parts here are being/becoming good and consistent enough to pull your weight in a mythic guild, finding a stable and likable guild that isn't going to asplode after a tough night or two, and maintaining the drive to get it done, including when the shiny wears off.

[Merlunie]

I literaly dont understand the full time job no time thing....my guild is been getting CE since wod and around 90% ish of us have full time jobs,some have kids also,and they manage just fine to set aside 2-3 hours a few nigths a week....the only people with issues are the people that sometimes need to work different shifts when the raid is taking place,but thats rare and just 2 people

I’ve found a massive amount of the community cannot schedule to save their lives. Some people have 0 free time which blows my mind. I understand if you have kids, but if you don’t and you still can’t find any free time that’s a yikes.

[Marrilaife]

Most mythic raiders are unemployed or have 0 responsibilities outside of work and have a consistent work schedule that allows them to play on a raid team. I would not recommend this lifestyle as in 5 years you'll be very very disappointed in yourself.

Many mythic raiders are unemployed, on welfare or in school. But many others have full time jobs.

First, it's a matter of what kind of guild you choose. There's a lot of "tryhard" guilds where you'll be forced to grind even when the guild progression rank doesn't seem to be high enough to justify it. It might be hard, but you have to find a more laid back guild. Good example is comparing guilds that raided over xmas and those that took a break. Obviously those who took a break are now behind on progression... but do you want to have progression instead of time off for xmas?

A lot of people who have jobs have either typical "9 to 5 office jobs", are self-employed or business owners, so they're in control of their schedule. For example in my last guild a lot of people had some IT job that they either provided customer support in office hours (recently mostly working from home cuz COVID), or they were "on call" if shit happens (admins etc.)

Extremely busy jobs and shift jobs are not really compatible with typical wow schedule. There are very few guilds that raid out of typical "early evening" window, and if your working schedule has irregular pattern, you're completely screwed.

- - - Updated - - -

I’ve found a massive amount of the community cannot schedule to save their lives.

A lot of people also can't make healthy boundaries in their relationships. Bollox like "GF aggro" or "brb 20 mins in the middle of the raid because baby is crying" shouldn't happen in a healthy relationship where people can plan between each other. If you raid 3 times a week you can just arrange the spouse / partner takes care of the baby on a raid night and you do the other 4 days and nobody is exploited.

[Hypasonic]

Plenty of 3 day guilds out there that raid in the evenings so having a full time job isn't the end of the world. I fyou also have other commitments too, well then maybe you should focus on other activities in the game.

[deenman]

A full time job means that now you work 40-50 hours a week on top of the:

56 hours of sleep
7 hours eating
3 hours cooking
5 hours travel time to work +- some groceries on the way
3 hours of exercise
3 hours of toilet
2 hours of shower
7-20 hours of sex

That's 120 hours already. Now go out with your kids on Saturday and meet some friends on Sunday and you're down to 30 hours.
Do you spend that time doing 10 hours raiding, 10 hours grinding gear, reps, mats, powers, etc, 10 hours leveling characters?
Or do you spend that time working on your personal hobby project/greatest dream of your life?
Or do you maybe like.... sit back and enjoy life for a bit and rest?

And mind you, this is me being absolutely nuts when it comes to discipline and time management. I managed to calculate every single minute I spend on daily/weekly activities and tried to be as optimal as possible, creating a few hours a day for gaming - my fiancee is 10 000 km away and we are under quarantine so I don't need to worry about time spent with other people (friends, family, etc). AND STILL it is too much. And not only because it takes time but because... it feels like a second job :P Now imagine people who don't manage their time like me and are more social than me. Life, hello?

That said, I don't care about gear you will replace in 6 months so CE doesn't mean anything to me. But you said you don't understand so I was generous enough to do the math for you.

most people exercise in the morning,or go to the gym and you dont go at night when raids are usualy happening,so i have no idea how thats an issue

and how does sex get in the way of raiding lol?thats normaly a before bed thing,in the morning or right when you come from work if your not to tired,for me working from home its never been an issue and my gf is a gym instructor so her day is pretty chill also,but i know plenty of people who come home dead tired so i guess sometimes that can be odd

but anyways wile i dont have kids,even when i used to not work from home,i never had issues with this....i came home,shower,eat,talk...had time to do pre raid stuff and 2h raid,and still had some time after...when we had off days i whent out

[PingPong]

or just play a few hour per weeks and aim for AOTC like the majority of us