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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    This is a weird take given Universal Health Care is the only major policy that has broad support among all factions. Yet all that Woke stuff is hyper divisive but there the Dems find the ability to go all in on, or like gun control, or stuff that is infinitely less popularly supported and with way greater partisanship the Dems are totally fine with accepting a liability. But on something broadly popular? Weird.....
    I'm aware of this...I've literally been arguing that the median voter is center-left/left on economics and center/center-right culturally for years. Look through my post history.

    Congress, however isn't actually a representation of what the populace supports. If you vote on it now, it will go down in flames. And Congress will see it as a liability for years to come. Step one is changing Congress. Step two is pass agenda.

    We're still on step one.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
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  2. #82
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Your hilarious ignorance of the very article you linked is weird. Benjy Sarlin, noted MSNBC ghoul says all that is needed. Warren relied on mostly older, college-educated voters who are wealthier than Bernie’s base, people likely to have secure jobs with insurance they like. Sanders base had people without secure jobs and no health care and mostly shit health care if at all.

    Warren voters were mostly PMC's, and her base in fact had considerable cross-over with Kloubachar and Buttiegeg. So yeah, her stance on M4A killed her, and her waffling caused the voters that liked her AND Sanders to ditch her. Plus she acted as a Judas against Sanders and her credibility died.
    This goes against reality... Warren actually stated how M4A would be paid for and got attacked for it, because people like you are glued it was her turning away from M4A. It’s the reason why the fake outrage for M4A never has details... because as soon as details show up, here come the GOP talking points and needing to think how progressive M4A hurts the sentiment of the south.

    This game is played out... been 4 years...
    As above, so below.
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    My mistake, Racheal Maddow.

    .5/3 since I soooometimes watch her. Though I will note that despite her rep on the internet left as a Neoliberal or something, she almost exclusively focuses on the politics of things, not the policy.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  4. #84
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I'm aware of this...I've literally been arguing that the median voter is center-left/left on economics and center/center-right culturally for years. Look through my post history.
    This isn’t true, otherwise M4A cost wouldn’t be an inhibitor. Majority support M4A, but don’t support how to pay for it.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    That’s the point... I will remind everyone, Trump also claimed to support universal coverage... but, never came up with a way on how to do it...
    Lol these Alt-Right posters spent Five years trashing Dems, SJWs, and minority rights.

    Now they're shouting for M4A. Like M4A does for them, what Lourdes does for humpbacks and cripples.

    No miracles gonna cure them from being hateful Karens.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Your hilarious ignorance of the very article you linked is weird. Benjy Sarlin, noted MSNBC ghoul says all that is needed. Warren relied on mostly older, college-educated voters who are wealthier than Bernie’s base, people likely to have secure jobs with insurance they like. Sanders base had people without secure jobs and no health care and mostly shit health care if at all.
    Which like...was the point. I'm not sure how else to tell this to you. The support is there in the abstract, when people can fill in whatever details they want with their opinions. But when you start getting down to brass tacks, something I don't think Sanders has done. He's proposed legislation in the past, and grand promises, but he's never come out with a detailed plan that I've seen. Broad strokes and leave the specifics like how to pay for it to figure out later, sure, but nothing as remotely specific as Warren did. And it's part of what sunk Warren.

    The biggest for of M4A isn't "centrist democrats", it's specifics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Warren voters were mostly PMC's, and her base in fact had considerable cross-over with Kloubachar and Buttiegeg. So yeah, her stance on M4A killed her, and her waffling caused the voters that liked her AND Sanders to ditch her. Plus she acted as a Judas against Sanders and her credibility died.
    What's a PMC? And she more middle aged/educated voters than Sanders, who skewed far more towards less politically involved and younger crowds. And she acted as a "Judas against Sanders" for endorsing Biden?

    Man, seriously, it's getting difficult to tell "progressives" apart from the Freedom Caucus/Tea Party and their RINO/purity test nonsense.

  7. #87
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PresidentElectMilchschake View Post
    Lol these Alt-Right posters spent Five years trashing Dems, SJWs, and minority rights.

    Now they're shouting for M4A. Like M4A does for them, what Lourdes does for humpbacks and cripples.

    No miracles gonna cure them from being hateful Karens.
    M4A is the same as the Iraq war rhetoric. We believe Trump in saying he is against Iraq war, despite him pushing the idea of crazy Muslims dancing on rooftops to celebrate 9/11.

    At no point, do these people realize that they are demanding we compromise, with the very people generating the support for all of this shit they complain about. At some point, they need to realize that all of these problems are founded on a base that supports it and trying to compromise with said base, is the reason neoliberal and incrementalism is slander. It’s all based on what these NeoClassic Liberals don’t understand...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  8. #88
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Which like...was the point.
    The point you reach is only "The Democratic Party will never go for this policy" which may be true, but then why act as if it will or expect people who want it to share your adoration and devotion to a party that isn't down for the policy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    Tankie Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics / Socialism with My Chemical Romance characteristics. Caramelldansen Nationalism. Liberalism is the Pandemic. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. When that Polka hits!. Ceterum et dare nobis duo milia dollariorum!

  9. #89
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Yet all that Woke stuff is hyper divisive but there the Dems find the ability to go all in on, or like gun control.
    Here is a list of NRA approved healthcare providers:
    https://www.nraapprovedservices.com/...dical-benefits
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  10. #90
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    You mean the whine aunt? I admit from the outside looking in I don't see fear.
    The right whinges about Pelosi more than they do any other politician. I love how she's simultaneously the most incompetent and idiotic woman in the legislature, and also an evil communist mastermind at the same time, at least according to conservatives. But the point remains, she plays the right like a fiddle. Pelosi played the fuck out of Trump. If Trump was playing 5D chess, Pelosi had already won while Trump was figuring out his first move. Pelosi hamstrung Trump at so many points and the right screeched about it, it was fucking hilarious. The one thing I'm going to miss about the Trump presidency is watching Pelosi outsmart Trump every day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PresidentElectMilchschake View Post
    Thanks Squad for supporting Speaker Pelosi!

    Sorry about the Face Eating Leopards and Cosplay LEftists on twitter. Still trying to warn people they're not podcasting in good faith ...



    Life comes at you fast. She ran for Congress and does she not know how the process works.



    AOC misses an alphabetical roll call ...



    Tulsi Gabbard is now the former Representative from Hawaii's 2nd District. One of the few seats Dems flipped from Republicans last year.

    I'm kinda enjoying this

    Can you believe people like @Theodarzna hilariously take Krystal Ball seriously and think she's some kind of political prodigy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Any normal day, I'd hate this outcome. She needs to be replaced. BUT, given she did pass a no strings, no frill 2k check with no bullshit, Eh.... I'll give her a pass and assume there is a soul underneath all that. I'll say she deserves the W on that alone.
    Pelosi has passed a whole lot more relief for the people. They're just sitting on McConnell's desk. I'd say you can be forgiven for your ignorance about bills passed by congress since you've been absent for 4 years, but well, we all know why you weren't around and it's no excuse. Also, ignorance isn't an excuse to whinge about things Pelosi has or hasn't done when you haven't been keeping up.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    The point you reach is only "The Democratic Party will never go for this policy"
    Literally not what I've ever said. Seriously Theo, your strawman arguments are getting exhausting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    but then why act as if it will or expect people who want it to share your adoration and devotion to a party that isn't down for the policy?
    Strawmen. Strawmen everywhere.

    To remind you, since you apparently don't read anything I write, the country isn't ready for M4A, though we're getting closer and closer. Support went from 40% in 2000 to we're now seeing 70%+ levels of support for the abstract concept - https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public...care-coverage/

    (KFF is a non-profit organization and not associated with the hospital, so they don't stand to benefit or lose either way)

    Because like it or not, most change in the US happens via boiling the frog after decades of work/progress. Not overnight. You want it to happen overnight because that's what's easy, and making massive policy changes isn't easy.

  12. #92
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    The Establishment so far is incapable of say doing important policy positions, unless it involves starting a war.
    Man, if only those 600+ bills on McConnell's desk were any indication of what "The establishment" is doing. I realize you think the legislature not passing anything is an indication of how malicious and incompetent they are, but for some reason you always seem to forget McConnell has erected a giant wall.

    But again, you're using ignorance as an excuse to whinge about the evil establishment neo liberal deep state george soros pizza basement pedophile ring.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Literally not what I've ever said. Seriously Theo, your strawman arguments are getting exhausting.



    Strawmen. Strawmen everywhere.

    To remind you, since you apparently don't read anything I write, the country isn't ready for M4A, though we're getting closer and closer. Support went from 40% in 2000 to we're now seeing 70%+ levels of support for the abstract concept - https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public...care-coverage/

    (KFF is a non-profit organization and not associated with the hospital, so they don't stand to benefit or lose either way)

    Because like it or not, most change in the US happens via boiling the frog after decades of work/progress. Not overnight. You want it to happen overnight because that's what's easy, and making massive policy changes isn't easy.
    Policy change in the 20th century happened when ideas had much lower support. But the US was also far more liberal in the 20th century, willing to try new things for the sake of progress. Theo has convinced herself that the Republicans are merely an audience that idly sits by and watches the liberal establishment start wars. Reality is that Democrats are constantly trying to pass bills that would help people. Better health care laws, expansion of medicare and medicaid, better unemployment, better disability aid. Instead every single one of these bills is stonewalled by Mitch the Bitch, and then Theo sits back and pretends that either

    1) Republicans don't exist and neither do these social aid bills that Democrats are always passing

    or

    2) Democrats and Republicans are working together to simply make it "look" like Democrats are passing these bills in good faith, when in reality everyone in congress is a neo liberal and it's all just grand theater. That Pelosi and McConnell sit behind closed doors talking about how to put on a grand performance to convince the drooling masses that they're "trying" and failing.

    It's rather difficult to adjust my mindset to that of Theo to figure out just what she's thinking, because I often have to disregard the vast majority of reality to get in such a mindset.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Congress, however isn't actually a representation of what the populace supports. If you vote on it now, it will go down in flames. And Congress will see it as a liability for years to come. Step one is changing Congress. Step two is pass agenda.

    We're still on step one.
    M4A floor vote was seen as part of "step one".

    The strategic point of #ForceTheVote was making a list of those who should be replaced in Congress to get it done based on it, and to use it against them as ammunition to primary them.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2021-01-05 at 01:47 PM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    What's a PMC? And she more middle aged/educated voters than Sanders, who skewed far more towards less politically involved and younger crowds. And she acted as a "Judas against Sanders" for endorsing Biden?

    Man, seriously, it's getting difficult to tell "progressives" apart from the Freedom Caucus/Tea Party and their RINO/purity test nonsense.
    Professional Managerial Class. Its Theo's Husband's belief that corporate interests (aka Capital) controls the Democratic Party and their Divisive Woke Agenda. Never mind that Warren's campaign contributions were heavily dominated by small donations and the Woke Agenda is only divisive because it scolds racists for being racist.

    Warren was better than Sanders because she's more serious about providing details and is better at fighting corruption. The latter of which Theo's Husband cares little about although no one should be shocked that a racist doesn't care about justice.
    Last edited by Ivanstone; 2021-01-05 at 02:53 PM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Professional Managerial Class. Its Theo's Husband's belief that corporate interests (aka Capital) controls the Democratic Party .
    Hmf..accurate as far as it goes. It's why I despise NJ senator Norcross.

  16. #96
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    M4A floor vote was seen as part of "step one".

    The strategic point of #ForceTheVote was making a list of those who should be replaced in Congress to get it done based on it, and to use it against them as ammunition to primary them.
    The strategy was to make Jimmy Dore more money and seeing how he is making the national press, he succeeded... how else is a failed comedian supposed to pay off the 2 million dollar mansion he bought in 2019?

    Was step two, passing it and then having McConnel attach revoking 230 and starting an election investigation? To force even the democrats who support M4A, to vote against it in the senate? It’s not like something like this happened just last week...

    Edit: Since you think this is step one... Can you tell me what’s in the M4A bill that Jimmy is pushing? What’s the coverage and/or cost and/or how the cost would be covered? If step one is voting on M4A, what step is defining what M4A is? Step 17? It passes and then we figure out what we passed? We vote on slogans, instead of policy now? Oh Jimmy...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just a reminder... It took so long to pass ACA, that a congressman died during the process and his replacement forced changes to policy, so it can pass the new congress. It wasn’t just a vote on an empty piece of paper, with the letters A C A... on it...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-01-05 at 03:09 PM.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  17. #97
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Ahhh wonderful, another 2 years of the right shitting themselves over just how much this woman outsmarts them.
    And the left wing shitting themselves because they think she's as much the devil as the right does.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Remember when you clowned on her for passing HR-1 because it was a pointless move since she knew McConnell wouldn't bring it up for a vote? And then you celebrate her doing the same thing with the $2K stimulus in this thread? And now how you complain she's not doing the same thing you criticized and celebrated her for, knowing she doesn't even have the votes in the House to send anything to the Senate?
    If anybody was looking for a quick synopsis of Theo's posting style and habits, well here ya go lol

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    The strategy was to make Jimmy Dore more money and seeing how he is making the national press, he succeeded... how else is a failed comedian supposed to pay off the 2 million dollar mansion he bought in 2019?
    You're money-shaming him for supporting M4A?

    Would his message be somehow more powerful if he was bankrupt?

    Was step two, passing it and then having McConnel attach revoking 230 and starting an election investigation?
    As opposed to dozens of other bills already sitting on his desk that Democrats had no problem voting for despite that?

    To force even the democrats who support M4A, to vote against it in the senate? It’s not like something like this happened just last week...
    Yes, to force those not principled enough to reveal their true colors (or "conditions").

    Edit: Since you think this is step one... Can you tell me what’s in the M4A bill that Jimmy is pushing?
    There is only one M4A bill in Congress records as far as i see, namely Medicare for All Act of 2019.

    It was relatively unique situation - final vote was 216 - 208 - 3. 5 people voting "against" instead of "for" would be enough to force repeat of the process (in which Pelosi still could be brought up for vote again, it wouldn't eliminate her).
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2021-01-05 at 07:18 PM.

  20. #100
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    It's been almost a 100 years? You expect them to roll out the red carpet for the M4A bill or do you think people will actually have to protest and push our elected leaders to pass it?

    Lots here bitch and moan about McConnel not passing bills or putting them up for a vote, but a Democrat does it and all of a sudden it's part of some grand plan to wait till the timing is exactly perfect? What is it exactly?

    It's not like if you put this up for a vote and it doesn't pass no M4A bills can be passed in the future? THis is nothing more then protecting centrist and corporate democrats who don't want to be on the record. Our congressional bodies most important job is to vote on bills, and with a Democratic controlled House we can't get a vote in a bill that is supported by over 90% of Democrats. Yet you all have a million excuses why, "now is not the time". It's always the right time to do the right thing or fight for the right policy. We are literally in the middle of a Global Pandemic if now is not the time to push for Universal Coverage then there is never a right time.
    Didn’t you make a big huff about deleting your account and leaving the forum because no one takes cosplay leftism seriously? Rofl.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

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