Poll: Do you support universal health care? Why or why not?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

Page 8 of 28 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
18
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Such as? Or where you too busy spreading the exact same talking points the blairites did about Corbyn to actually bother with them?
    If he was really as idealogy pure as you claim, he would have kicked out all right-wing labour members.


    But ye, I get that anything you say about labour is pretty much bullshit anyway. You hate blairites but the even more right-wing liberals are fine? Just come out as a tory already, save us both some time.


    Have fun thinking up shitty excuses to gut the healthcare system. Its what liberals are best at.
    You are the reason the labour party will never be elected again not me, let that sink in.

    I may agree with the blarites about corbyn but that dosnt make us allies, people like you who are so obsessed with ideology don't understand that though, every one who's against you must be allies as far as you see it in your simple minds and that ultimatly is why you won't get anywhere in british politics, tbh its pure narcissism, do you really think that its the whole world v corbanites...like you actualy matter that much...please...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dwertius View Post
    When Americans want to start a idiotic war vast amounts of money can be found and huge amounts of hardware and personnel are moved round the world...when it comes to reorganizing pre-existing hospitals into an efficient format where numerous pre-existing successful models can be copies then suddenly its always too hard....

    - - - Updated - - -



    So what? You vote for other parties that are ambivalent or actively hostile to the NHS because you didn't get exactly what you wanted? That doesn't make any sense.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Do you really make six figures? Because it is hard for me to believe you make six figures and are that into penny pinching. Are you one of those weirdo millionaires that buys out of date bread so you can save 10 cents or whatever?

    I will make six figures this year. You know what I'm thinking? ITS FUCKING BRILLIANT TO HAVE THAT INCOME. You know what I'm not thinking? Oh its so terrible I might have to pay a few thousand dollars extra to help keep a system afloat that relieves people's pain, misery and suffering....
    Lib dems aren't hostile to the nhs.

    Britain isn't labour or die, theres more options kn the left than having to cow tow to the abomination of failure the labour party has become.

    Labour and Labour supporters love the lie that its them or its torys be default, if you don't vote for them your anti welfare, and anti NHS, that way they dont actualy have to listen to or cater for the working class, unfortunately for them that's not the reality, the snp, lib dems, greens are all viable alternatives, all left wing, all pro welfare and NHS, and untill labour gets it through there thick pie muching heads they can kiss any chance of making anything but a coalition goverment with those other partys, good bye.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Do you support universal health care for the United States? Why or why not?
    First of all, let's be clear. "Universal health care" doesn't actually imply "government health care". A private charity can start its own system completely separate from government that provides a level of health care to everyone. So I think if you asked the public if they would like either a universal government health care system or a universal charity health care system, I think pretty much the entire population would say yes to at least 1 of those options. The right wing only stands against the idea because to them it means bigger government. But they would be extremely likely to say a big yes to some charity offering universal health care.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    And those numbers come from...where, exactly?
    This is what you got out of it and not, "Only monied people should be able to vote." Let me quote the relevant part:

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    only 40% of Americans who pay any significant amount of taxes consent to it which means the level of coercion is vastly higher. It's simply not a very good comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    So where do you get your numbers from? Republican only poll?
    See above. Made up and even then, only counting people who have money. So doesn't think democracy is the way to go.
    Last edited by Ripster42; 2021-01-05 at 01:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  4. #144
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    First of all, let's be clear. "Universal health care" doesn't actually imply "government health care". A private charity can start its own system completely separate from government that provides a level of health care to everyone. So I think if you asked the public if they would like either a universal government health care system or a universal charity health care system, I think pretty much the entire population would say yes to at least 1 of those options. The right wing only stands against the idea because to them it means bigger government. But they would be extremely likely to say a big yes to some charity offering universal health care.
    There is no such thing as universal charity healthcare. Which charity do you want to handle your healthcare... The Bill and Linda Gates foundation or the Clinton Foundation?

    One more question... Is this charity going to be tax deductible?
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-01-05 at 01:37 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    There is no such thing as universal charity healthcare. Which charity do you want to handle your healthcare... The Bill and Linda Gates foundation or the Clinton Foundation?

    One more question... Is this charity going to be tax deductible?
    Maybe it is tax deductible. Or maybe not. But its an idea.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  6. #146
    Officers Academy Prof. Byleth's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Fódlan
    Posts
    2,225
    I was born and raised in the US, but now live in New Zealand when we have M4A.

    I can unequivocally say that M4A is a million times better.
    Here is something to believe in!

  7. #147
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
    In principal, I support it. But my wife and I make well into six figures and have platinum level care for not that much. I’d have to see what the plan entails, and how much my out of pocket costs rise.
    If you approach the question from a perspective of "what's in it for me?" rather than "what's best for the health and success of the nation as a whole?", then you're already not approaching the question from a political point of view. It's the same mindset that leads politicians to misuse public funds for personal gains. No consideration for the public good, just personal profit and gain.

    It's fine if you don't have political views, but don't act like your refusal to think beyond yourself would amount to a political opinion. It's the absence of a political opinion.

    It's like saying "I don't much care about the debate about capital punishment. I'm not on Death Row." It just demonstrates a complete misalignment of thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    First of all, let's be clear. "Universal health care" doesn't actually imply "government health care". A private charity can start its own system completely separate from government that provides a level of health care to everyone. So I think if you asked the public if they would like either a universal government health care system or a universal charity health care system, I think pretty much the entire population would say yes to at least 1 of those options. The right wing only stands against the idea because to them it means bigger government. But they would be extremely likely to say a big yes to some charity offering universal health care.
    A few points;

    1> A non-governmental charity-based universal health care system would only stick around as long as said charity. They could just . . . stop, at any moment.
    2> Provision of care would also be down to the mores of those running the charity, not the public good.
    3> There isn't remotely enough funding via charity for this to be feasible, and it's ridiculous to bring the idea up in light of that.
    4> Consistency of funding is also a pretty fundamental requirement, and charity is anything but consistent.

    5> Somewhat separate from the above; the idea of "bigger government is bad" is just inherently dishonest, and anyone bringing that up can safely be discarded as not having a useful opinion on political matters. "Bigger" is a term that only has a relative meaning, not an objective one, and it's a term that's only applied to try and argue against funding, generally of social benefits programs, by pretending that the speaker's issue is cost or government overreach. That's not their actual issue. If it were, they'd be able to speak to specifics, and show another way to approach the issue that produces similar/better outcomes. Their actual issue is a straight opposition to the program itself. If it's universal healthcare, they misanthropically want to see the poor suffer and die off. If it's tuition coverage/student loan payoffs, it's their hostility to education as a concept. Etc. This is made abundantly clear because they'll never accept reductions in government power or spending on issues they support. That's why you'll see the same "smaller government!" types pretty much never support "defund the police" movements, even though that's exactly what they seem to be talking about, overtly. Because it isn't actually about that, and never was. They're just lying to you, because they know how awful the truth makes them look.


  8. #148
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Maybe it is tax deductible. Or maybe not. But its an idea.
    No, it’s not an idea at all. Not knowing, is not an idea.

    You forgot the other question I asked... What charity will you turn to? Bill and Malinda Gates foundation or Clinton Foundation?

    I’d ask about Trump’s charity, but I am sure you know he was ordered to pay two million... because Trump misused the funds...

    Donald J. Trump Pays Court-Ordered $2 Million For Illegally Using Trump Foundation Funds
    https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019...ump-foundation

    So... which charity will you trust, when begging for care to not die?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  9. #149
    I am Murloc!
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Aarhus, Denmark, Europe
    Posts
    5,077
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Do you support universal health care? Why or why not?
    I do.. as well as government funded mental healthcare and government funded dental healthcare.

    Since i am not american i choose not to vote in the poll though

    As for why? This is close enough to what i am thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yes.

    Because the alternative is the fetishization of human suffering.

    It pretty much is that black and white.
    But there is even more to it if caring about other people does not matter

    We are all poorer for those we leave behind, if we do not offer quality schools, if we do not offer quality healthcare etc we leave portions of the population behind, people in poor health will offer less to society and society will prosper less
    Last edited by Xarkan; 2021-01-05 at 05:22 AM.

  10. #150
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    10,939
    I'm for Universal Health care because I don't like people dying. Dead is bad too. Let the rich pay something for once.

  11. #151
    Nobody should ever be worried about costs when they fall ill or have an accident. Want to capitalize the medical industry? Do it with health spas and other non-essentials. When hospitals operate with profit in mind, it leads to the situation now where we are drastically overpaying for medical expenses. Private insurance sounds like a good answer to some but profit is their priority as well.

    It is one industry that should be socialized. If it hits the taxes, well it still takes over health insurance costs every month without having to worry about insane deducibles.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    As far as mandating people to do things? Yes. Because free will and freedom are the literal most important virtues to me and a lot of americans.
    Mandating who to do what? What does universal healthcare introduce that goes against free will and freedom?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    First of all, let's be clear. "Universal health care" doesn't actually imply "government health care". A private charity can start its own system completely separate from government that provides a level of health care to everyone. So I think if you asked the public if they would like either a universal government health care system or a universal charity health care system, I think pretty much the entire population would say yes to at least 1 of those options. The right wing only stands against the idea because to them it means bigger government. But they would be extremely likely to say a big yes to some charity offering universal health care.
    Who's funding the charity?
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  12. #152
    No, it's a really bad idea as are all mandatory/guaranteed income systems riddled with bureaucracy.

    The result would be long wait times, bad quality healthcare and you'd get refused experimental treatment or have to pay for for rare things anyway. Also it would really hurt progress don't really have a good incentive to come up with new treatments and improvements if they get guaranteed income.

    Basically it's the same as with public schools now. Compared to most private schools, they are horrible.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    Mandating who to do what? What does universal healthcare introduce that goes against free will and freedom?
    Mandating those who make money and actually contribute to society in increasingly meaningful and non-mundane ways take care of someone they don't know/can't judge for themselves/don't care about... like basically every form of social safety net. Stop making the able bodied carry the weak and the incapable more than they willingly want to.

    You want lower health care costs? Maybe we need more people willing and able to go into the industry so they have to compete more. As it is, we do not have enough medical staff to actually meet demands, let alone take care of everything if everyone were able to just go see the doctor whenever they wanted.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2021-01-05 at 09:19 AM.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    More moronic ramblings of a libertarian nitwit.
    Riddle me this one first Mr Ayn Rand wannabe.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    It does. Living requires constant consumption of goods, which require work to produce.
    I would like to introduce you to industrialization, technology and automation. We aren't quite there yet, but we are well on our way to the point where production and manufacturing will require no meaningful human involvement of any kind.

    As far as mandating people to do things? Yes. Because free will and freedom are the literal most important virtues to me and a lot of americans.
    So let's clarify something here my dear libertarian edgelord.

    Do you believe the police and the court system should only serve those who are able to pay for their services out of pocket?

    If your answer is yes, that's not law enforcement, that's a protection racket.

    Do you believe the military should only defend those people or organizations that can pay for their defense out of pocket?
    Or can Canada or Russia just annex Alaska if Alaskans can't find the money to pay for their defense?

    If your answer is yes, that's not a defense policy, it's a protection racket run by warlords.

    You apply your own alleged values completely arbitrarily. It's so PROFUSELY idiotic that it won't stand up to even the most basic cursory examination. You don't understand what the social contract is, nor what it provides.

    If you actually believed in your own bullshit you'd fuck off and go live somewhere where your values are applicable...which is basically about 2 completely failed states somewhere in Africa and maybe Afghanistan. If you are unwilling to do that, than you are a hypocrite and a fucking moocher on the civilized society where you happen to find yourself and whose wellbeing you are actively sabotaging.

    Your values aren't American. Your values are dumb and un-American, because you refuse to take responsibility for yourself and for your place in society, you are the polar opposite of what you think you are.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    No, it's a really bad idea as are all mandatory/guaranteed income systems riddled with bureaucracy.

    The result would be long wait times, bad quality healthcare and you'd get refused experimental treatment or have to pay for for rare things anyway. Also it would really hurt progress don't really have a good incentive to come up with new treatments and improvements if they get guaranteed income.

    Basically it's the same as with public schools now. Compared to most private schools, they are horrible.
    Bullshit.

    The whole wait times and triage nonsense has been thoroughly debunked like a million times already.

    As the notion that it would somehow be more "bureaucratic" as it is universally acknowledged that removing the middle men of insurance companies massively streamlines the process.

  15. #155
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    No, it's a really bad idea as are all mandatory/guaranteed income systems riddled with bureaucracy.
    You have never dealt with insurance companies. You can’t say this, if you have.

    The result would be long wait times, bad quality healthcare and you'd get refused experimental treatment or have to pay for for rare things anyway. Also it would really hurt progress don't really have a good incentive to come up with new treatments and improvements if they get guaranteed income.
    Again, this is coming from a place of ignorance. I had to wait 3 month for a doctor, to just get a check up. My gf was denied experimental treatment, because the insurance company (not the doctor) refused to sign off on it, until she got on a drug that triggers MS in people with a family history of MS... which she has from her mother. Oh and this is after a couple of years of denying anything is wrong, because they needed an MRI to see the damage.

    The incentive angle is bullshit... How much was made or what corporation was running the discovery of penicillin? It is more profitable for these companies, to research pills that make your dick hard, than ones that would have lower demand... like rare illness...

    Basically it's the same as with public schools now. Compared to most private schools, they are horrible.
    Like private schools, only the wealthy should get treatment?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #156
    I come from a working class family in the UK. One of my grandparents has had cancer 6 times, & is still alive today in his early 80s thanks to our healthcare system & his incredible willpower. If not for the NHS, I probably never would've remembered meeting him, never mind getting to know what an awesome guy he is.

    So yeah, of course I do.

  17. #157
    Yes, some services should not be profit-driven. For similar reasons that I don't want a privatized police or privatized road network.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Riddle me this one first Mr Ayn Rand wannabe.
    This is why I acknowledge it's not possible to get rid of all gov't entirely, but minimizing it as much as possible is first order business.

    Bullshit.

    The whole wait times and triage nonsense has been thoroughly debunked like a million times already.
    Wait time is only part of the puzzle. The US is among the shortest wait times already as-is when you look at our average times. Take into account the fact that we have fewer doctors per capita than most of those countries and it looks even more impressive. In addition, you're ignoring probably the best part of our type of health care system: the ability to skip the line by throwing more money at the problem. You can't do that in other countries nearly as easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    So yeah, of course I do.
    Lets look deeper and use our brains instead of our hearts: did your grandfather actually end up making enough money across his life to cover the additional life he got from those treatments? Let alone his own livelihood outside of those bills? Or did he push off his burden to the rest of healthy people who ended up not needing treatments of any major kind?
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2021-01-05 at 03:47 PM.

  19. #159
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Wait time is only part of the puzzle. The US is among the shortest wait times already as-is when you look at our average times. Take into account the fact that we have fewer doctors per capita than most of those countries and it looks even more impressive. In addition, you're ignoring probably the best part of our type of health care system: the ability to skip the line by throwing more money at the problem. You can't do that in other countries nearly as easily.
    If that’s even true, it’s because wait times don’t factor people who don’t have insurance, not getting care at all.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    This is why I acknowledge it's not possible to get rid of all gov't entirely, but minimizing it as much as possible is first order business.



    Wait time is only part of the puzzle. The US is among the shortest wait times already as-is when you look at our average times. Take into account the fact that we have fewer doctors per capita than most of those countries and it looks even more impressive. In addition, you're ignoring probably the best part of our type of health care system: the ability to skip the line by throwing more money at the problem. You can't do that in other countries nearly as easily.
    I would not count that as impressive but rather barbaric.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •