Could the World of Warcraft and its characters defeat those of Starcraft and Diablo?

[TheFirstOnes]

"Air, water, fire and earth aren't even considered elements at all by modern science." Never said they were. My point is that they are the BASIS of these elements. You need these factors for Helium, Hydrogen, Oxygen, combinations such as Iron, etc to exist.

I mean, in Warcraft, we even have Iron, hot air balloons (which uses Helium, believe it or not), and other tech things that house no magic whatsoever. All tech and science, and a lot of them can be based off of "real life" stuff, despite the fact our universe and theirs are completely different.

While the Terran's are from Earth, the principles of the Universe itself aren't the same. The Protoss don't exist, the Terran tech that's seen in SC doesn't exist, the Void and the Xel'naga don't exist IRL, and Amon + the Zerg totally don't exist IRL either. Lots of fictional verses use the Earth as a main world (Look at Dragon Ball, for example), yet the laws don't have to be the same as real life's as a result.

And since we're arguing realistic physics, if you really want to say that Starcraft's laws are like real life's, then I could just argue Warcraft's better than Starcraft because a lot of the characters there are not bound by the pitiful laws of the realistic settings of creation. Meaning they could just do whatever the fuck they want, and it wouldn't matter. Demons transcend time, Sargeras and the Titans hold the powers of creation itself, the Shadowlands and the Eternal Ones don't give two fucks about Order and its laws, etc. Whereas Starcraft's guys are bound by something, if you wanna argue they're using real life physics. Means even the Void is forever bound by physics and time. Well, actually, in a way, it is. The Xel'naga are the only guys that have actually affected time itself, and that was due to the Infinite Cycle, which Amon put a stop to for quite a while.

Also, you can actually argue a lot of Starcraft feats for Amon, since Time in the verse is not linear.

"Growth functions are rarely linear, but growth is perfectly measurable" Not unless the growth functions go higher and higher beyond the point of measurement, since it's not really bound by 1 set motion and has the chance to grow however long it wants to be. Linear functions can also be infinite, but because it's in 1 set direction, it's not as insane. Growth Functions a lot of the time require us to bring in factors such as the Multiverse, different dimensions, and whatnot. Could you argue it's measurable? Maybe, sure. But you'd have to argue it pretty damn well. Least with Linear time, you can look at the singular Universe, and actually get a general understanding of how time works and how to quantify/measure it.

"For the purposes of the equation, time is a non-factor." Not really. It is a factor, but it is still. Time still exists. It is a factor. But it's in a still motion. Take for example Dragon Ball, or JoJo's Bizzare Adventures, speed is quite a factor, even when Time is still, or when guys like Hit use pockets of time to create a dimension where Time is in a still state, but speed is still entirely possible because it still exists and isn't undefined. It's why Goku and Jiren were able to break free from that. It's why lots of guys can break through time stops (Where Time stands still) VIA hax or being faster and stronger than the manipulative powers.

So, in a way, I don't really get this non-factor argument, since you can still go around areas, even in still Time if fast enough.

[Maxilian]

Diablo? No.

Starcraft? Maybe, but only if its a fight between some important characters of both universe (like Heroes of the Storm), a war? NOPE!

[huth]

Never said they were. My point is that they are the BASIS of these elements. You need these factors for Helium, Hydrogen, Oxygen, combinations such as Iron, etc to exist.

No, they're not. The alchemical interpretation has nothing whatsoever to do with the periodic table. Nor do you need them for the elements on the table to exist. In fact, water, air and earth are made up from elements on the table, not the other way around.

Also, "combinations such as Iron"? Seriously? Go look for Fe on the table. It stands for ferrum aka iron.

Not really. It is a factor, but it is still.

Which means it is literally not a factor. in v = d/t, t is undefined for this case. And even if you put it as t=0, the equation would still be undefined since in real numbers, n/0 is undefined.

[TheFirstOnes]

No, they're not. The alchemical interpretation has nothing whatsoever to do with the periodic table. Nor do you need them for the elements on the table to exist. In fact, water, air and earth are made up from elements on the table, not the other way around.

Also, "combinations such as Iron"? Seriously? Go look for Fe on the table. It stands for ferrum aka iron.



Which means it is literally not a factor. in v = d/t, t is undefined for this case. And even if you put it as t=0, the equation would still be undefined since in real numbers, n/0 is undefined.

"In fact, water, air and earth are made up from elements on the table, not the other way around." I'll concede to this factor, but in regards to WoW, nothing ever implies that Air, Water, etc weren't made up. Hell, the elements IRL are the basic building blocks of our reality, but even they were made by mixtures of periodic elements. What's to say WoW's not similar? It's not like the Elements in WoW were made magically, or made by Light/Shadow, cause they've always existed, even before the physical Universe was formed.

It's also highly implied that a lot of the First Ones' structures were based off tech and science, and if they were the true creators, then it is possible factors such as the Light, the Void, and the Elements ended up as scientific mixtures of what the First Ones designed by their power and knowledge alone.

Also, no. Time is still a factor. It's in a still motion, but that in itself doesn't make it 0, since, like I said, you could still outpace still time. Time being 0 would be to imply that there is no time there to begin with. Take for example the Shadowlands. The Shadowlands aren't limited by Time, or do they really see it, since Time is a construct of Order, not of Death. So, if you want to argue undefined Time feats, arguing still Time doesn't factor, since Time still exists, even if a still motion. But it in itself isn't 0, ya know?

The Shadowlands would be undefined, since there is 0 time there...

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Also, regarding the Elements in WoW, where do you think Iron came from? Where do you think Helium comes from regarding hot air balloons in WoW? How do you think Coal is made (Things that supplement Iron Horde trains, or fires, etc) in WoW? How was Gravity Formed in not just the Physical Universe, but across the entire Warcraft Cosmos? Why does Milk provide calcium to the citizens of Azeroth? Why are the Cosmic powers of Life given form in the Physical Universe? Well, we know Light and Void's clash caused Life to be birthed there, but how did Light and Shadow create it? Almost like Light and Shadow's clash applied similar rules to the Big Bang, in that their clash created the basic known periodical elements of which Life in the Universe was made from.

Hell, it's almost like all these things take from their own versions of the Periodic Table.

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WoW's basically no different from Starcraft or real life regarding the periodic table. There's just magic applied to it, now.

[Wangming]

Dunno about StarCraft, but Diablo universe has Malthael AKA I'm just going to suck out your soul from a different dimension you can't even get into unless you have the Angiris Council helping you, the freaking Nephalem and if that isn't enough there is still Trag'Oul the Sargereas sized dragon and his army of necromancers.

[huth]

"In fact, water, air and earth are made up from elements on the table, not the other way around." I'll concede to this factor, but in regards to WoW, nothing ever implies that Air, Water, etc weren't made up. Hell, the elements IRL are the basic building blocks of our reality, but even they were made by mixtures of periodic elements. What's to say WoW's not similar? It's not like the Elements in WoW were made magically, or made by Light/Shadow, cause they've always existed, even before the physical Universe was formed.

The elements are running around and can talk. That's rather dissimilar.

It's also highly implied that a lot of the First Ones' structures were based off tech and science

Where? I don't see any such implications. Superficial similarity isn't the same thing.

Also, no. Time is still a factor. It's in a still motion, but that in itself doesn't make it 0, since, like I said, you could still outpace still time.

Er, what? "Still motion" is an oxymoron, and none of the rest has any actual meaning.

Also, time t being 0 simply means that no time passes.

Also, regarding the Elements in WoW, where do you think Iron came from?

It's not exactly a secret that many materials in WarCraft do not match similarly named real world materials. There is no reason to assume they have similar origins, either.

Why does Milk provide calcium to the citizens of Azeroth?

Who says that it does? You're making an awful lot of assumptions there. For one, you're basically assuming that the periodic table applies to WarCraft, and then attempt to use that to show that it does. Rather circular.

[Terongor]

That is, you again did not give proofs and just expose your fantasies as canon? My hedkanon? VOID ray and Shadowflame damage is this my headcanon? Funny

The problem is that there is no separate death magic in the game, there is only shadow magic. However, Death magic usually does not summon Void creatures, have you thought about that? Or are you saying that these guys were summoned by Death? https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_Seeker

I know, and this is strange, but we know that GulDan's plan was to infuse the soul of Sargeras into Illidan's body. It is also possible that it is Azzinoth. Your lore knowledge is too small to know such things, and you just accuse me of the Hedkanon.

Because again you said some kind of nonsense about existence for Fel. Once again, which one is the unreliable source? Why do you think the Codex of the Blood is a more reliable source than the description of the dungeon? Forget this code, no matter what it says, think only about the description of the dungeon. We're talking about a dungeon description, and if it's contrary to the Codex, we must believe the dungeon description. You are trying to portray both sources as unreliable because they somehow contradict each other (although in fact they do not contradict, you just pretend that you do not understand what a madman really is so as not to admit that you are again in a puddle), but we can only believe description of the dungeon and it will be canon. Learn to admit defeat.

Void has many definitions and shadow is used in lore legion is called burning shadow too does that mean legion is aglined with the void.

How is that a problem? Chaos school by your logic is used by other forces besides fel showing that magic type really doesn't prove anything by your argument.

Sargeras speaking of himself in third person would not make sense. Bah you have as many mistakes in lore that I have and your logic says you think azshara couldn't no Elisande. Also what is hedkannon?

Both are unreliable until we have something backing up either one. Madman has never being defined in warcraft universe so we have to take how its defined in english and how its defined in english wouldn't fit in on either one. If there is only two sources they contradict each other on a historical event until we have more data Both are seen as unreliable sources. Basic logic used when researching stuff.

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We kinda already do. It's called Heroes of the Storm. And if we're using that verse as realistic logic, then Tracer's blasts do NO damage against the Lich King (As shown int the Gul'dan trailer), and Deathwing can literally dismantle every character there (Since he's shown slamming everyone in the trailer). You can easily argue it's more comparable to something akin to DB Heroes, in that it's basically a fanfic, but that's just an assumption. Heroes of the Storm can be argued as a side story, or a secondary canon, since it's about heroes from each verse being summoned to the Nexus to battle against one another. So, it can actually apply.

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I doubt it's really that simple, nor is that really in character for the Protoss to do. Either way, planet destroyers are nothing new.

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We also haven't really gotten anything good from the Legion's ships tbh outside of what some books say, or TBC stating dimensional Draenei ships can legit warp Dimensions and Time itself. Hell, Warcraft isn't really good as expressing power in game at all tbh. Sargeras is actually smaller in the Antorus cinematic than he is in almost every other portrayal of him.

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Illidan has been shown countless times over that the Legion in every reality has destroyed every world they walked on. The protoss aren't impressive.

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Mind if you and Darkoms give me context on your argument here?

Really long.... like always with darkrom.

[darkoms]

Void has many definitions and shadow is used in lore legion is called burning shadow too does that mean legion is aglined with the void.

How is that a problem? Chaos school by your logic is used by other forces besides fel showing that magic type really doesn't prove anything by your argument.

Sargeras speaking of himself in third person would not make sense. Bah you have as many mistakes in lore that I have and your logic says you think azshara couldn't no Elisande. Also what is hedkannon?

Both are unreliable until we have something backing up either one. Madman has never being defined in warcraft universe so we have to take how its defined in english and how its defined in english wouldn't fit in on either one. If there is only two sources they contradict each other on a historical event until we have more data Both are seen as unreliable sources. Basic logic used when researching stuff.

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Really long.... like always with darkrom.

Oh really? That is, you want to assert that the Void is Void only when it is convenient for you? Interesting. The Legion literally uses Void creatures, there is nothing strange about that.

Then why are you trying so hard to prove Setesh is using the Fel? Maybe he uses all kinds of magic at once? After all, his abilities are connected with CHAOS, although their description directly says that he uses the Void.

Yes, it bothers me too, so it might be Azzinoth. However, he uses abilities like the gaze of the dark titan. Knowledge errors? I forgot that the warlocks tried to summon a demon, and not a creature of the Void, you absolutely do not know what you are talking about, argue with the description of the dungeon and expose the owl hedkanon for the actual lore.

True? Since when has the description of the dungeon, essentially the word of god (as opposed to the codex written by the in-game character), become unreliable? Because again you don't feel like admitting how bad you really know lore? If you are in a puddle, admit it, and do not pretend that you decided to swim in the lake.

It's not my fault that I have to explain to you how lore, English and logic work.

[TheFirstOnes]

The elements are running around and can talk. That's rather dissimilar.



Where? I don't see any such implications. Superficial similarity isn't the same thing.



Er, what? "Still motion" is an oxymoron, and none of the rest has any actual meaning.

Also, time t being 0 simply means that no time passes.



It's not exactly a secret that many materials in WarCraft do not match similarly named real world materials. There is no reason to assume they have similar origins, either.



Who says that it does? You're making an awful lot of assumptions there. For one, you're basically assuming that the periodic table applies to WarCraft, and then attempt to use that to show that it does. Rather circular.

Nothing is truly dissimilar. Elementals exist in Starcraft too VIA Technology and shit like that. Not too crazy.

For the First Ones, the Great Vault and multiple artifacts throughout the Shadowlands are considered "Technology of the First Ones". The Arbiter herself basically acts like a robot. Nothing really "similar" when stuff such as the Great Vault are outright stated to be ancient tech.

"Also, time t being 0 simply means that no time passes." I'll concede in that it could just be Infinite speed, but that in itself could just prove my case for Sargeras, the Nether, and the Titans no? Especially since not only do Demons and Sargeras not only give little to no shits about linear time, or stopped time (Since Demons in nature transcend it, as they're the opposition of order, and therefore Sargeras should technically follow these rules aswell), but Sargeras has also been shown to travel a countless amount of distance, especially since he was with the Titans, who were living energies of the cosmos travelling through the Physical Universe, which consists of infinite timelines, and is stated to be infinite in size.

Either way, distance, speed, MAYBE Time?, etc shouldn't matter to the Dark Titan. The only reason he wanted to reach Azeroth fast was so that the Void Lords wouldn't corrupt the Titan of Azeroth with their Old God parasites. Outside of that, Sargeras was going to reach Azeroth anyway.

Lots of things in Starcraft aren't really similar to the real world's either, outside of some elements sharing the same name. Sure, WoW's elements aren't similar to real life's, but they can be used in similar ways. And while we cannot base 100% that calcium exists in WoW, we can at the very least assume that the way Humans eat, drink, and gain their sustenance, should be at the very least similar to WoW's. Hell, lots of WoW's races and their cultures are based off real world ideals (Such as the Humans and how they're based on Victorian, old European, British, and Pirate cultures. Or how the Tauren are based on the Native American's, etc). Why wouldn't something such as Calcium exist?

"For one, you're basically assuming that the periodic table applies to WarCraft, and then attempt to use that to show that it does" Uhm, sure? So what if it's circular, I'm tryna prove a point here. Am I not allowed to use the Periodic Table to prove my point that things from WoW are also in reference to...well...THE PERIODIC TABLE?

(I apologize for the late reply. I tried to get to this earlier, but I got distracted).

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Oh really? That is, you want to assert that the Void is Void only when it is convenient for you? Interesting. The Legion literally uses Void creatures, there is nothing strange about that.

Then why are you trying so hard to prove Setesh is using the Fel? Maybe he uses all kinds of magic at once? After all, his abilities are connected with CHAOS, although their description directly says that he uses the Void.

Yes, it bothers me too, so it might be Azzinoth. However, he uses abilities like the gaze of the dark titan. Knowledge errors? I forgot that the warlocks tried to summon a demon, and not a creature of the Void, you absolutely do not know what you are talking about, argue with the description of the dungeon and expose the owl hedkanon for the actual lore.

True? Since when has the description of the dungeon, essentially the word of god (as opposed to the codex written by the in-game character), become unreliable? Because again you don't feel like admitting how bad you really know lore? If you are in a puddle, admit it, and do not pretend that you decided to swim in the lake.

It's not my fault that I have to explain to you how lore, English and logic work.

I'm confused on what's going on here. Maybe I should read up on this debate from past pages? No idea why we're using fucking Titan watcher's using Fel and Shadow to argue a case.

"After all, his abilities are connected with CHAOS, although their description directly says that he uses the Void." Uhm, yes. Beings of Chaos and use stuff directly from the Void. That's why the Legion uses enslaved Void walkers, use shadow magics, and whatnot.

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Void has many definitions and shadow is used in lore legion is called burning shadow too does that mean legion is aglined with the void.

How is that a problem? Chaos school by your logic is used by other forces besides fel showing that magic type really doesn't prove anything by your argument.

Sargeras speaking of himself in third person would not make sense. Bah you have as many mistakes in lore that I have and your logic says you think azshara couldn't no Elisande. Also what is hedkannon?

Both are unreliable until we have something backing up either one. Madman has never being defined in warcraft universe so we have to take how its defined in english and how its defined in english wouldn't fit in on either one. If there is only two sources they contradict each other on a historical event until we have more data Both are seen as unreliable sources. Basic logic used when researching stuff.

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Really long.... like always with darkrom.

"Really long" is not answering my question.

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You guys do realize that the DEMON WITHIN boss is not Azzinoth nor Sargeras, yes. It's self explanatory. It's Illidan's DEMON WITHIN! We're fighting his demonic state. Our battle with him is not the Demon Within saying "PRAISE SARGERAS, HURR!", it's just Illidan's demon form mocking us cause we believe we could take on the Legion all because we molly whopped Gul'dan. It's also why he mentioned Azzinoth's flames in the third person, as well as mentions Sargeras in the third person aswell.

Also, in regards to the "gaze of the Dark Titan", did you guys just forget about half of Illidan's lore, or what? Illidan lost his eyes and had new magical eyes given to him by Sargeras himself. Illidan essentially had Sargeras' gaze. That's why Illidan became unique in that he was the first true Demon Hunter, and it's also why Illidan, when he first got his eyes, had an entire view on the Legion's endless armada that was spread beyond just Azeroth. The eyes of the Demon Within were of the Dark Titan's magics. Hence why Illidan's fel fury could use "Gaze of the Dark Titan".

Also, it's not called "Gaze of the Dark Titan". It's called "Visions of the Dark Titan". "Visions of the Dark Titan — Ushers in a glimpse of the end of all things, instantly killing all enemies every second for 15 sec"

This is the exact thing Sargeras showed Illidan when Illidan first got his eyes. It's only natural Illidan's demonic power would do something similar.

Not to mention guys like Gul'dan and Argus were empowered by Sargeras himself. Hell, Argus was empowered by Sargeras so much, that he could basically wield Sargeras' abilities. Though, you could argue that Sargeras was just so powerful, that he was attacking us from afar while we were battling the red, enraged Unmaker.

[Kyphael]

Only one way to find out; Warcraft vs. Diablo vs. Starcraft. Set it on Earth with a human played by Megan Fox in the center of the epic battle to the stage of let's say, Detroit Michigan with a cop played by Dwayne Johnson. Anduin came to Earth seeking help to help defeat the forces of Diablo and Starcraft. The tagline is "an epic showdown between the forces of Blizzard. Whoever wins, WE lose." Anduin can learn how to use a smart phone and slang from The Rock while being chased down by Diablo and other Starcraft forces until they find Medivh to help or something. Give it a 200 million dollar budget, plus 150 million on marketing.

[TheFirstOnes]

Only one way to find out; Warcraft vs. Diablo vs. Starcraft. Set it on Earth with a human played by Megan Fox in the center of the epic battle to the stage of let's say, Detroit Michigan with a cop played by Dwayne Johnson. Anduin came to Earth seeking help to help defeat the forces of Diablo and Starcraft. The tagline is "an epic showdown between the forces of Blizzard. Whoever wins, WE lose." Anduin can learn how to use a smart phone and slang from The Rock while being chased down by Diablo and other Starcraft forces until they find Medivh to help or something. Give it a 200 million dollar budget, plus 150 million on marketing.

Fuck it. Let's go further. It's also directed by Michael Bay!

[Kyphael]

Fuck it. Let's go further. It's also directed by Michael Bay!

And produced by Zack Snyder!

[Terongor]

Oh really? That is, you want to assert that the Void is Void only when it is convenient for you? Interesting. The Legion literally uses Void creatures, there is nothing strange about that.

Then why are you trying so hard to prove Setesh is using the Fel? Maybe he uses all kinds of magic at once? After all, his abilities are connected with CHAOS, although their description directly says that he uses the Void.

Yes, it bothers me too, so it might be Azzinoth. However, he uses abilities like the gaze of the dark titan. Knowledge errors? I forgot that the warlocks tried to summon a demon, and not a creature of the Void, you absolutely do not know what you are talking about, argue with the description of the dungeon and expose the owl hedkanon for the actual lore.

True? Since when has the description of the dungeon, essentially the word of god (as opposed to the codex written by the in-game character), become unreliable? Because again you don't feel like admitting how bad you really know lore? If you are in a puddle, admit it, and do not pretend that you decided to swim in the lake.

It's not my fault that I have to explain to you how lore, English and logic work.

Void in current lore is too hard define until we have statements from blizzard which is void and which is not and legion nathrezim use death magic too so warlocks can use death magic aswell?

While half of his spells use green colour like chaos bolt and never seen chaos green used by void magic.

Just shows it didn't bother you until it was said to you. Body was fueled by Sargerases power and we have implication demon Hunter have some demons soul inside them and he summons echo of Azzinoth to fight besides him. Errors in Starcraft lore aswell and few other times but I just can't bother to search for them takes too long and you stating you headcanon as official lore like sargeras was the boss in nighthold.

Were was said that they were written as a word of god? And if they were written as "word of god" In literally terms It would mean they need to be always right and no retçon would affect them by we have so many dungeon journal retconned away and they aren't written even how "word of god" are usually written from pov of all omnipotent entity or a all knowing writter.

[Rhlor]

play heroes of storm

[darkoms]

Void in current lore is too hard define until we have statements from blizzard which is void and which is not and legion nathrezim use death magic too so warlocks can use death magic aswell?

While half of his spells use green colour like chaos bolt and never seen chaos green used by void magic.

Just shows it didn't bother you until it was said to you. Body was fueled by Sargerases power and we have implication demon Hunter have some demons soul inside them and he summons echo of Azzinoth to fight besides him. Errors in Starcraft lore aswell and few other times but I just can't bother to search for them takes too long and you stating you headcanon as official lore like sargeras was the boss in nighthold.

Were was said that they were written as a word of god? And if they were written as "word of god" In literally terms It would mean they need to be always right and no retçon would affect them by we have so many dungeon journal retconned away and they aren't written even how "word of god" are usually written from pov of all omnipotent entity or a all knowing writter.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_Seeker
So this guy is not a creature of the Void because Blizzard didn't tell you personally that it was? Great argument, man, keep up the good work and I don't even have to argue with you, you yourself will show that you have no idea what you are talking about

So he is using Fel and Void. Which is still funny because the whole controversy began when you said that the creatures of the Titans would never use such dark magic as blood magic. See how ridiculous your argument is now? You don't care what the argument is about, you just want to argue endlessly so as not to admit that you are in a puddle.

Um, no. I have already discussed this demon within, but not with you. Illidan was created differently. He received his power directly from Sargeras, but yes, perhaps his inner demon is Azzinoth. It wasn't Illidan himself, anyway. It is also not strange that Sargeras speaks of himself in the third person. He seems to have some sort of self-determination problem when he possesses someone. For example, here is a quote from Medivh from the dungeon Opening the Dark Portal
What is this? Champions, coming to my aid? I sense the hand of the Dark One in this. Truly this sacred event bears his blessing.

Mistakes in Starcraft lore? This is the only topic in which I argued about Starcraft and all I did was ask you for proof for your approval and you never provided proof. If you think it's a mistake that I don't believe in your fantasies, that's your problem. You have constantly demonstrated that you have no idea what you are arguing about and are simply passing off your fantasies as the official lore.

Ok, so i also have a question. Was it said that books are the word of God? It was never said anywhere that the dungeon guide was written by some in-game character. It's also very funny that you are trying to prove that both the dungeon guide and the Codex of Blood are non-canonical because they contradict each other. Let me explain to you how ENT works. If one source contradicts another, ONE OF THEM is canonical, and the other is not. You are trying to prove that both sources are non-canonical (or doubtfully canonical) because it is convenient for you and thus you may not admit that you had no idea that it was not the real Murmur, but only part of it. Don’t argue if you don’t know how. Especially with someone who knows lore much better than you.

[TheFirstOnes]

"Illidan was created differently. He received his power directly from Sargeras, but yes, perhaps his inner demon is Azzinoth. It wasn't Illidan himself, anyway. It is also not strange that Sargeras speaks of himself in the third person. He seems to have some sort of self-determination problem when he possesses someone."

Would be weird if it were Azzinoth, since the Demon Within also talks about Azzinoth in the third person aswell. My assumption is that it's a pissed off Illidan testing us, or he just doesn't know where he is atm, but I could be wrong.

The Demon Within isn't really explained all that well.

[Terongor]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_Seeker
So this guy is not a creature of the Void because Blizzard didn't tell you personally that it was? Great argument, man, keep up the good work and I don't even have to argue with you, you yourself will show that you have no idea what you are talking about

So he is using Fel and Void. Which is still funny because the whole controversy began when you said that the creatures of the Titans would never use such dark magic as blood magic. See how ridiculous your argument is now? You don't care what the argument is about, you just want to argue endlessly so as not to admit that you are in a puddle.

Um, no. I have already discussed this demon within, but not with you. Illidan was created differently. He received his power directly from Sargeras, but yes, perhaps his inner demon is Azzinoth. It wasn't Illidan himself, anyway. It is also not strange that Sargeras speaks of himself in the third person. He seems to have some sort of self-determination problem when he possesses someone. For example, here is a quote from Medivh from the dungeon Opening the Dark Portal
What is this? Champions, coming to my aid? I sense the hand of the Dark One in this. Truly this sacred event bears his blessing.

Mistakes in Starcraft lore? This is the only topic in which I argued about Starcraft and all I did was ask you for proof for your approval and you never provided proof. If you think it's a mistake that I don't believe in your fantasies, that's your problem. You have constantly demonstrated that you have no idea what you are arguing about and are simply passing off your fantasies as the official lore.

Ok, so i also have a question. Was it said that books are the word of God? It was never said anywhere that the dungeon guide was written by some in-game character. It's also very funny that you are trying to prove that both the dungeon guide and the Codex of Blood are non-canonical because they contradict each other. Let me explain to you how ENT works. If one source contradicts another, ONE OF THEM is canonical, and the other is not. You are trying to prove that both sources are non-canonical (or doubtfully canonical) because it is convenient for you and thus you may not admit that you had no idea that it was not the real Murmur, but only part of it. Don’t argue if you don’t know how. Especially with someone who knows lore much better than you.

Thats again twisting my argument and argument he could use fel to summon Void creatures like wlocks summoning murmur or player wlocks summoning voidwalkers just shows more towards fel can be used to summon other creatures.

I never said titans wouldn't use blood magic I said they wouldn't use death magic. Blood magic was well documented to be used by ra-den.

Yeah he was created differently but nothing else would explain him summoning shades of azzinoth than that. As not even Sargeras could really out of no were pull shades of Azzinoth and azzinoth being no were since WotA when even hakkar came back. That for sure is old lore as it contradicts really much chronicles 2 and medivhs motives for bringing orcs into azeroth

And you have aswell shown it... like in everyone of our conversation.

As we have errors in lore in tbc dungeon journal bosses and we know all of them were written in the same time. Lastly I'm not saying neither one is uncannon which is you twisting my argument again. My argument is we have only contradictory information making it until we have more data neither is true or false. Its basic argumetation if something has only this few contradictory sources. Knows lore? You for some reason didn't even know about demon within speaking in third person, summoning "shades of azzinoth" and used tbc lore as source on medivh which contradicts chronicles 2.

[darkoms]

Thats again twisting my argument and argument he could use fel to summon Void creatures like wlocks summoning murmur or player wlocks summoning voidwalkers just shows more towards fel can be used to summon other creatures.

I never said titans wouldn't use blood magic I said they wouldn't use death magic. Blood magic was well documented to be used by ra-den.

Yeah he was created differently but nothing else would explain him summoning shades of azzinoth than that. As not even Sargeras could really out of no were pull shades of Azzinoth and azzinoth being no were since WotA when even hakkar came back. That for sure is old lore as it contradicts really much chronicles 2 and medivhs motives for bringing orcs into azeroth

And you have aswell shown it... like in everyone of our conversation.

As we have errors in lore in tbc dungeon journal bosses and we know all of them were written in the same time. Lastly I'm not saying neither one is uncannon which is you twisting my argument again. My argument is we have only contradictory information making it until we have more data neither is true or false. Its basic argumetation if something has only this few contradictory sources. Knows lore? You for some reason didn't even know about demon within speaking in third person, summoning "shades of azzinoth" and used tbc lore as source on medivh which contradicts chronicles 2.

Will you give proof that they used the Fel? The murmur was triggered out of nowhere, and I still expect the Warlocks to use the Fel to summon Void creatures. I can't understand why you don't believe that Warlocks can use both Fel and Void.

You literally said that death / blood magic is too dark to be used by the Titans and their creatures, and now we learn that they can use Fel and Void, although these two forces are even darker than death / blood.

In ''The Last Guardian'', Sargeras controlled Medivh's body and mind and this dungeon is based on that old book, yes, but we still see that Sargeras has problems with self-determination when he possesses someone.

What? I do not understand what do you mean. As I said, I just asked for proofs for your fantasies.

So can you show me these errors in the description of the dungeon bosses? Go ahead, I'm waiting. Once again, when two information contradict each other, one of them is canon and we will believe the one that is the word of god (description of the dungeon), and not the in-game book. You are trying to say that we cannot believe in anything. Can you then go and ask Blizzard on Twitter? Although I'm not sure that the current writing team even remembers who Murmur is. I remembered this and I also remembered that the quests said that Sargeras wanted to move into Illidan. Lol, I just showed you (obviously you had no idea what Medivh was saying in this dungeon at all) that we already saw (even if in the old lore, although, by the way, the raid came out earlier than Chronicle 2) that Sargeras can speak about myself in the 3rd person. We've been arguing for how long? 10 pages? This is because you simply could not give a proof for the statement about Amon and because you could not admit that it was only part of Murmur's strength (although this is obvious to everyone). All you could do is say:
1) I have no proof for this
2) yes, indeed, the Mumbler was not at full capacity, I did not know that

But you didn't do it because of your ego. You can't admit that you don't know lore as well as you would like.
Fortunately, you have me to tell you new information, please contact. It can take a lot of time and pages, but nobody said it was easy to be a teacher.

[FelPlague]

Could the World of Warcraft's Alliance and Horde fare well against the characters of the Starcraft and the Diablo universes? (I'm not sure where exactly to ask this to be honest)

If for example, the forces of either universe, both the heroes and their worst enemies, directly attacked Azeroth, would they be able to stand against them in a full-scale conflict of epic proportions? Do you believe that any cross-over, beyond the very limited interactions in Heroes of the Storm, between these three universes would end well, since the latter games are considerably less popular than World of Warcraft?

The amount of people saying yes is dumb.

In wow orbital cannons are hilariously rare, only one has really been a thing, and people freaked out
In StarCraft orbital stuff is hilariously common. I mean look at the heart of the swarm cinematic and that fight is bigger then any fight in wow.

All of Azeroth could be taken out by a couple battlecruisers, or just a single mothership like what are people smoking to think wow could take on the StarCraft universe?

Diablo sure, their power levels are pretty regular. But StarCraft, the Terran alone would estimate the burning legion, only Sargeras himself being somewhat of an issue, but even in wow they needed tons of other people to help just trap the guy.

[TheFirstOnes]

The amount of people saying yes is dumb.

In wow orbital cannons are hilariously rare, only one has really been a thing, and people freaked out
In StarCraft orbital stuff is hilariously common. I mean look at the heart of the swarm cinematic and that fight is bigger then any fight in wow.

All of Azeroth could be taken out by a couple battlecruisers, or just a single mothership like what are people smoking to think wow could take on the StarCraft universe?

Diablo sure, their power levels are pretty regular. But StarCraft, the Terran alone would estimate the burning legion, only Sargeras himself being somewhat of an issue, but even in wow they needed tons of other people to help just trap the guy.

Diablo is powerful asf. What are you on about? Also, no, you're not glassing or orbital striking a Titan. At MOST the Keepers or the Old Gods, but that's where you're gonna cap. Amon would probably be the 1 threat the Titans have, but even then, good luck attempting that.

While I do agree there aren't a lot of orbital strikes in WoW, there are beings that have tanked mortal weaponry and have destroyed entire worlds all on their own. Archimonde's been stated to destroy countless worlds in the infinity of Universes, and aspect magics can blow his ass back to the Nether. Kinda doesn't help that we've also canonically faced Fel Reavers that can dismantle entire worlds with their weaponry (The Garothi Worldbreaker), as well as gain enough power that is of the force of a collapsing Star (Rakeesh's Fel Annihilator).

Besides, like Legion ships and shit like that, SC ships are easily destroyable. Though, I doubt the Alliance and Horde could do shit against them. I mean, they almost never can do shit alone.

The Terran would get dismantled by the Legion. Idk what point you're trying to make here.

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"but even in wow they needed tons of other people to help just trap the guy."

You do realize what was needed to imprison Sargeras, right? Cause...it's not anything you could get nor make anywhere.

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Thats again twisting my argument and argument he could use fel to summon Void creatures like wlocks summoning murmur or player wlocks summoning voidwalkers just shows more towards fel can be used to summon other creatures.

I never said titans wouldn't use blood magic I said they wouldn't use death magic. Blood magic was well documented to be used by ra-den.

Yeah he was created differently but nothing else would explain him summoning shades of azzinoth than that. As not even Sargeras could really out of no were pull shades of Azzinoth and azzinoth being no were since WotA when even hakkar came back. That for sure is old lore as it contradicts really much chronicles 2 and medivhs motives for bringing orcs into azeroth

And you have aswell shown it... like in everyone of our conversation.

As we have errors in lore in tbc dungeon journal bosses and we know all of them were written in the same time. Lastly I'm not saying neither one is uncannon which is you twisting my argument again. My argument is we have only contradictory information making it until we have more data neither is true or false. Its basic argumetation if something has only this few contradictory sources. Knows lore? You for some reason didn't even know about demon within speaking in third person, summoning "shades of azzinoth" and used tbc lore as source on medivh which contradicts chronicles 2.

Well, Blood Magic was used by a Keeper. Not really a Titan-Titan. And in regards to Murmur, he was simply summoned accidentally as a result of Warlocks being desperate and trying to summon a powerful Demon from the far corners of the Universe.

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play heroes of storm

That's not really the best argument since fucking Tracer can kill Deathwing, which is the funniest shit I've ever heard since Overwatch is pure ass power-wise.