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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Uzkin's Avatar
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    The OP's goal is to do +15s in time so, for reference, here's a list of how well the different classes are doing in +15s atm, from best to worst:

    Monk (BEST)
    Warrior
    Rogue
    Paladin
    Demon Hunter
    Priest
    Mage
    Shaman
    Druid
    Hunter
    Death Knight
    Warlock (WORST)

    Every class is well capable of doing +15s, although warlock is the worst at it.

    Reference:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...=15&dataset=99

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    The OP's goal is to do +15s in time so, for reference, here's a list of how well the different classes are doing in +15s atm, from best to worst:

    Monk (BEST)
    Warrior
    Rogue
    Paladin
    Demon Hunter
    Priest
    Mage
    Shaman
    Druid
    Hunter
    Death Knight
    Warlock (WORST)

    Every class is well capable of doing +15s, although warlock is the worst at it.
    [/url]
    That chart shows that the top like 20 are within 1% of each other, so every class is viable, with some specs being much worse than others.

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral Uzkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fourlocos View Post
    That chart shows that the top like 20 are within 1% of each other, so every class is viable,
    That's what I said.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Fourlocos View Post
    That chart shows that the top like 20 are within 1% of each other, so every class is viable, with some specs being much worse than others.
    Has to do with the retarded haphazard AoE target caps they put in for some classes while leaving others untouched.

    Doesn't help heroism is only available to two classes, one of which has the lowest cd interrupt of the ranged classes with a purge and aoe stun, and the other class that has it also has a purge, incredible survival cd's and mobility only second to hunters out of the ranged classes on top of having the strongest burst CD next to balance druid.

    And they went and made these dungeons and affixes anti-melee as hell, so once again we are stuck with the token Shroud bot rogues and the rest of the group is stacked with ranged as if ranged didn't have raiding as their absurdly favored PvE format as well.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    BGs: I only play it casually, but i think aff could really use a "spend shards for faster dot" mechanic like Soulburn Soulswap in MoP or instant Seeds in Legion. We do good dmg if you can handle all the interrupts, but its rough if you can't, and sometimes you need to do damage faster.
    You mean like rapid contagion?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlinsback View Post
    You mean like rapid contagion?
    We also have Creeping Death, but it is a trap talent because just like Feral's Jagged Wounds, it just makes the DoT expire faster, which means you spend even more time spending GCD's to put those DoT's back up.

    Affliction in the middle of beta was supposed to get a rework, but they abandoned it midway after Malefic Grasp and went and spent all their pitiful class design budget on shadow priest, which indeed got a great overhaul that gave them multiple options to DoT targets faster, and gave them two viable burst aoe options while we're still stuck with the steaming pile of garbage that are the warlock AoE spells across all warlock specs, but particularly the horrendous Seed of Corruption.

    And demo has been stuck with the completely failed Legion revamp since they can't be bothered to rework more than one spec per expansion after all the work they did in Legion, when they can do shit BfA efforts and still pull off profit. Shadowlands is just BfA 2.0 in terms of class design, and even worse because Covenants and soulbinds are a way worse system than azerite armor or the HoA.

    Destro is the single non-mechanically terrible spec, though it could use a radius increase to rain of fire to the level of the BfA Starfall radius, and Cataclysm or FnB should be baselined. Would be need as well if backdraft stacks allowed you to cast while moving so the spec isn't so crippled by mobility while braindead hunters roll their face on the keyboard and pump aimed shots that hit harder than a chaosbolt.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2021-01-28 at 02:04 AM.

  7. #27
    That little chart is wrong on almost every level.

    For m+ which is what you brought up and nothing else, warlocks are not amazing.

    Aff brings the dps in mid to high keys but bring very little else. It is between ok and good in high keys, but in no way shape or form a standout and don't expect many invites, do expect being ignored unless it's friends.

    Demo is more stable in that it rolls from low to ..upper mid keys just fine. Around 15 you'll start to really feel the lag on meters, earlier if you suck at it. Again though you bring very little besides the dps. But at least you can perform on trash and bosses generally.

    Destro doesn't function too well outside of low to mid keys and even that is a bit touch and go and requires making the spec and it's long cooldown to work for you so get used to planning if you want destro. And once again you don't bring a hell of a lot else.

    Tldr warlocks are in a tough spot for m+. They work but there also is few to no reasons to bring them over another class unless you are bringing the player and not the class.
    “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredRose View Post
    They're greedy soulless monsters for not handing me everything for my 15 moneys a month!

  8. #28
    The Patient Locknrollen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    The OP's goal is to do +15s in time so, for reference, here's a list of how well the different classes are doing in +15s atm, from best to worst:

    Monk (BEST)
    Warrior
    Rogue
    Paladin
    Demon Hunter
    Priest
    Mage
    Shaman
    Druid
    Hunter
    Death Knight
    Warlock (WORST)

    Every class is well capable of doing +15s, although warlock is the worst at it.

    Reference:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...=15&dataset=99
    If you dont understand statistics and how to use them, dont.
    Former highend raider. Now highend moron

  9. #29
    Bloodsail Admiral Uzkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locknrollen View Post
    If you dont understand statistics and how to use them, dont.
    I guess I will use them, then.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    Raiding: Affliction is a powerhouse, you gotta leverage its spells right but the result is very consistent boss damage and excellent multi dotting as well. Dest and Demo are a bit more niche but they're not so bad as to be a problem if you're not mythic raiding.

    M+ = we're not the best, but def not the worst. Demo is pretty handy in low to 15+ keys with nice burst aoe and an impactful short cd, and aff shows decent potential in higher ones where it can ramp. Dest i didn't experiment with enough to know.

    BGs: I only play it casually, but i think aff could really use a "spend shards for faster dot" mechanic like Soulburn Soulswap in MoP or instant Seeds in Legion. We do good dmg if you can handle all the interrupts, but its rough if you can't, and sometimes you need to do damage faster.

    Arena: Aff is surprisingly strong. Get the slowing legendary, practice your kiting and find a decent healer, and you can do well in both 2s and 3s. Night fae helps a ton for nature school and the speed increase form. Again, not the absolute best, but we can definitely shine. A solid alternative to burst meta.
    That's really good advice thank you.
    been back at pvp recently after years avoiding and destro just isnt working for me anymore.

  11. #31
    The Patient Locknrollen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    I guess I will use them, then.
    So in your logic, using the standard 3.14 in calculations youd use how many digits?
    Former highend raider. Now highend moron

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral Uzkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locknrollen View Post
    So in your logic, using the standard 3.14 in calculations youd use how many digits?
    How many digits one has to use, depends entirely on the type of calculation. In practice, however, one simply uses pi to the precision it's been implemented in the calculator or computing application one is using.

    If you have any other questions about mathematics or science, I'd be happy to help!

  13. #33
    The Patient Locknrollen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    How many digits one has to use, depends entirely on the type of calculation. In practice, however, one simply uses pi to the precision it's been implemented in the calculator or computing application one is using.

    If you have any other questions about mathematics or science, I'd be happy to help!
    Lets just hope you never work in education or journalism. for the greater good.
    Former highend raider. Now highend moron

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Locknrollen View Post
    Lets just hope you never work in education or journalism. for the greater good.
    You're an awkwardly angry person, aren't you?

  15. #35
    Bloodsail Admiral Uzkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locknrollen View Post
    Lets just hope you never work in education or journalism. for the greater good.
    Sorry, couldn't care less about your hopes. But don't worry: even though I shall ignore your wishes when it comes to education or journalism in general I can at the very least try to stay out of the mess that is the swedish education system... the results of which you seem to be a fine example of.

  16. #36
    The Patient Locknrollen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    You're an awkwardly angry person, aren't you?
    Probably.

    I just get annoyed when people twists statistics to prove their view right.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    Sorry, couldn't care less about your hopes. But don't worry: even though I shall ignore your wishes when it comes to education or journalism in general I can at the very least try to stay out of the mess that is the swedish education system... the results of which you seem to be a fine example of.
    You probably know less about the swedish education system, than i do about the finnish. But thats irrelevant.
    Next time you realise youre wrong, just dont reply instead.
    Former highend raider. Now highend moron

  17. #37
    Bloodsail Admiral Uzkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locknrollen View Post
    Probably.

    I just get annoyed when people twists statistics to prove their view right.

    You probably know less about the swedish education system, than i do about the finnish. But thats irrelevant.
    Next time you realise youre wrong, just dont reply instead.
    Likewise!

    I didn't "twist statistics" (sic) in any way, it is relevant statistics from a reliable source. Next time you feel the need to criticize or argue about something, be sure to actually have something rational to say, rather than posting some emotionally-driven incoherent drivel like you have done in this thread.

  18. #38
    The Patient Locknrollen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    Likewise!

    I didn't "twist statistics" (sic) in any way, it is relevant statistics from a reliable source. Next time you feel the need to criticize or argue about something, be sure to actually have something rational to say, rather than posting some emotionally-driven incoherent drivel like you have done in this thread.
    It is completely irrelevant statistics, thats my point. The fact that you cant see how that type of misinformation is a problem is frightening.
    Former highend raider. Now highend moron

  19. #39
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Warlocks? Yes.

    Your Warlock, on the other hand, isn't, otherwise you wouldn't be asking here.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    The OP's goal is to do +15s in time so, for reference, here's a list of how well the different classes are doing in +15s atm, from best to worst:

    Monk (BEST)
    Warrior
    Rogue
    Paladin
    Demon Hunter
    Priest
    Mage
    Shaman
    Druid
    Hunter
    Death Knight
    Warlock (WORST)

    Every class is well capable of doing +15s, although warlock is the worst at it.

    Reference:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...=15&dataset=99
    Instead of making a ranking with a capitalized BEST and WORST, you could have clarified that accoring to the link it matters fuck all what class/spec you play as long as you're a good enough player, and that there is no significant difference between monk (BEST) and warlock (WORST). The only thing your ranking does is making group leaders go 'fuck no I am not inviting a warlock or DK, they are the WORST!' Every group seems to NEED a hunter though.

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