The Great Vault is rubbish.

[kaminaris]

I didn't forget Master Loot, Blizzard did and they made it clear it ain't coming back like it or not, in large part I think due to being a lot less stress on their CS team.

Lack of deterministic system? Great Vault is more deterministic than anything since badge gear itself. Coin wasn't deterministic (or I guess Azerite vendor, for all of 3 slots, yay), it was still heavily reliant on RNG and people complained about coin all the time.

And this is how people got scammed.

Do the math first. GV is nothing more tha additional random guaranteed drop. Coin was far more deterministic.

[Aresk]

And this is how people got scammed.

Do the math first. GV is nothing more tha additional random guaranteed drop. Coin was far more deterministic.

Do you have the probability that a coin returns an item instead of something else? Without those numbers, I don't see how the math can be completed.

[Yooginava182]

its been a god send. I got ilvl 158 boots when I dinged 60 and started gearing. Since I never saw a pair of boots until this week in my vault I got my BiS boots mythic 5 210 ilvl. So far i've gotten BiS gear from the vault i didn't get from raid / mythic +

[Toybox]

LOL, how is this possible??? What an analogy!

TGV is way better than the old chest, its not even compareable. You are bringing 7 more arguments int your posts because you know you can't argue against that fact.

He's making an interesting point to be fair. Gear drops from raids & dungeons are very limited, & while PvP gear is relevant again, the amount of conquest gear you can get is totally hardcapped. We've gone from raids where you might expect 2-3 drops over the course of a night (with a bonus roll chance on top) to probably getting a single piece from 10 bosses.

The great vault as a standalone system is obviously a huge improvement, but if loot from every other PvE aspect of the game is noticeably worse, is it really better overall? All I can really compliment (and criticise) the vault for is that it keeps the item level disparity to a minimum between different tiers of raiders. So long as you're doing some M+, you're probably never going to be too far behind. As an example, my friend is 216 having done 15~ heroic bosses total & some M+ with guildies. I'm only a single item level higher having cleared heroic every week since week one & likely to kill a 5th mythic boss tomorrow.

[kaminaris]

Do you have the probability that a coin returns an item instead of something else? Without those numbers, I don't see how the math can be completed.

Coin is a static drop 1 of out X where X is the number of items you coin for. Bosses had 1-4 items usually.
GV is is the same static drop but (1-3) out of Y where Y is the number of ALL items from that content.

Number of actual rolls you had to do with a coin doesn't matter as you had 2-3 coins per week and with BLP that meant 0.5-0.8 items per week. Out of pretty small pool.

[Utrrabbit]

One thing that sucks about it is that LFR Raiders are getting the shaft until the next wing opens. You need 7 kills to get the next tier and yet there is only 6 bosses you can access right now.

Other then that I like it, Nice chance at loot.

"LFR raiders"

If you only do LFR you are not a raider. Your a just trying to play the game as single player.

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Coin is a static drop 1 of out X where X is the number of items you coin for. Bosses had 1-4 items usually.
GV is is the same static drop but (1-3) out of Y where Y is the number of ALL items from that content.

Number of actual rolls you had to do with a coin doesn't matter as you had 2-3 coins per week and with BLP that meant 0.5-0.8 items per week. Out of pretty small pool.

I love the bad napkin math that some people try. It always amuses me.

[roahn the warlock]

So I was open minded about the Great Vault being an interesting addition to the end of week rewards. It sounded like an interesting evolution to the weekly chest.

But now, 2 weeks running I’m thinking it’s either broken or just complete garbage.

2 weeks running, I’ve had 6 unlocks in the vault for 6 choices, and of those 6, 5 are just an ilvl upgrade of something I’m wearing that I want to replace, and 1 is some other piece of rando gear.

With having 12 choices the last 2 weeks, I think I’d have been lucky to have gotten 1 piece of gear with haste. But no, it’s all the same crappy crit gear I’m trying to replace with haste gear.

Anyone else noticing extraordinarily bad “luck” when it comes to the vault choices? What are the odd of it offering me 5 choices of the exact item I’ve already equipped if the selections were completely random?

I don't want this to come across as mean, but the reason it's not working for you, is because you play enough to get 6 choices across the board. You're playing too much, the vault is for casual players to kinda be able to keep up with you.

[Snowflakesz]

The Vault is a stroke of genius.

Kind of wish the third raid drop would stay a 207 option, for a full NM clear, even after you convert to first to a HC drop though.

[Lolites]

I love the bad napkin math that some people try. It always amuses me.

i think calling what he did "math" is an overstatement... he literaly pulled number out of his ass and write it in a way it seemed he did something to actualy calculate it...

now back to reality, if the coin remained it would have roughly the same chance as raid drop itself have (why would they give it higher if their own goal is to give us less loot) so you should get aprox 1.5 items per raid now (10 bosses), so lets say you would get 1 item per 6 coins, 3 coins a week that means one random item from chosen boss per two weeks, and he consider that better than one CHOSEN item from you options each week...
i think there is no need to say more

tbh other than people dissapointed they lost second (pvp) chest, only people saying GV is shit seems to be (at least from comments) people who want to be rewarded for doing nothing

[Doffen]

He's making an interesting point to be fair. Gear drops from raids & dungeons are very limited, & while PvP gear is relevant again, the amount of conquest gear you can get is totally hardcapped. We've gone from raids where you might expect 2-3 drops over the course of a night (with a bonus roll chance on top) to probably getting a single piece from 10 bosses.

The great vault as a standalone system is obviously a huge improvement, but if loot from every other PvE aspect of the game is noticeably worse, is it really better overall? All I can really compliment (and criticise) the vault for is that it keeps the item level disparity to a minimum between different tiers of raiders. So long as you're doing some M+, you're probably never going to be too far behind. As an example, my friend is 216 having done 15~ heroic bosses total & some M+ with guildies. I'm only a single item level higher having cleared heroic every week since week one & likely to kill a 5th mythic boss tomorrow.

You expected 2-3 drop per night? Some people got it I see

Yes, I think both TGV and gearing up is fantastic in Shadowlands, much better than both Legion and BfA counter parts, both alone and together.

[BananaHandsB]

Sorry that happened, I've found the vault to be incredibly rewarding.

Weapons, trinkets and ilvl upgrades.

This is the problem with the great vault. For most, it will seem entirely fine. But it's still entirely RNG. Which would be fine if they hadn't removed all forms of non-RNG loot from PVE. Badge gear is long gone. There's no master loot to help guilds fill in slots for unlucky players. You can't even bonus roll to help better your odds of a particular slot. For a person with average or good luck, this probably seems fine. But for the unlucky minority of outliers, that statistically will and do exist, pure RNG is a devastating system that seems to reward them far less than people doing the same (or even less) than they are to try and progress their character. RNG is fine when there is still at least some non-RNG ways to target loot over time, but blizzard has removed that entirely from the pve side of the game in favor of the loot casino approach. But hey, there's a reason ppl get hooked on gambling, and Blizzard knows they can profit off that, so I don't see anything getting changed.

[prolonged]

"LFR raiders"

If you only do LFR you are not a raider. Your a just trying to play the game as single player.

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I love the bad napkin math that some people try. It always amuses me.

If you complain about how people play the game and how they have "fun" with it, then you are part of wows problem. Point blank 100% truth. LFR is raid content is it not? it is. Therefore you are a raider, you sound stupid as hell.

[kamuimac]

Well more reliable gearing, offer a currency as a secondary option. I've farmed 2-3 vault items from M+ weekly so far, had a lot of duplicates (bracers/neck/rings) and while the 3rd duplicate ring was the lower ilvl option this week, the highest option was another ring and my ideal legendary slot is a ring.. A currency would have been great, to spend towards something at least remotely targeted.

And I also think M+ nevermind the vault the dungeon drops themselves are too low for the difficulty of the content. It's like a +14 up is mythic raider territory and the loot is like normal mode raiding, I think a M10-12 should be dropping 210 and a M+15 should be 213-216 ish. The vault'd be great if it had some protections in place, like not allowing 3 of the same slot or eliminating the item from the pool for a few weeks after it's chosen as an option.

Lets not forget the new Vault was meant to be bad luck protection but they bundled it with less loot from all other content, actively nerfing drops. They even nerfed timewalking drops because people were getting 2 items for a full clear.

they nerfed TW because they realised that people are making 200 itlv + groups and trading each other gear. my DH got 5 pieces - my hunter got 9 piece - how many +8 you would have to do to get 9 pieces that are clear upgrades ? probably 200+ .

they really dont want people to have fun while playing this game

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This is the problem with the great vault. For most, it will seem entirely fine. But it's still entirely RNG. Which would be fine if they hadn't removed all forms of non-RNG loot from PVE. Badge gear is long gone. There's no master loot to help guilds fill in slots for unlucky players. You can't even bonus roll to help better your odds of a particular slot. For a person with average or good luck, this probably seems fine. But for the unlucky minority of outliers, that statistically will and do exist, pure RNG is a devastating system that seems to reward them far less than people doing the same (or even less) than they are to try and progress their character. RNG is fine when there is still at least some non-RNG ways to target loot over time, but blizzard has removed that entirely from the pve side of the game in favor of the loot casino approach. But hey, there's a reason ppl get hooked on gambling, and Blizzard knows they can profit off that, so I don't see anything getting changed.

some people are for sure.

but majority of population doesnt like to gamble. what more i doubt that people who play mmorpg do because it has gamble elements.

i get it - people who play wow and only wow for past 16 years probably by now forgot how good mmorpgs handle gear progression .

if wow was real mmorpg we would have stuff like :

1)farmable elements to craft your very good quality gear from dungeons/raids - that each player could farm and then give to crafters to commision gear
2)professions making actualgood quality gear instead of garbage that they craft for yearsi n wow
3)gear upgrades - we would have enchants for every slot of gear we have - sometimes multiple enchants for each slot , jewelcrafterswould be able to make actual sockets and make profit on it , gems - do people even rememeebr we used to have 2-3 gem slots / different colours on multiple pieces of gear ? , tailoers/leatherwokers/blacksmits could possible craft +itlv upgrades for gear and make profit on this , scribes - dont make me start there - rmemebr when glyphs meant something in wow and were actual upgrades ? i member - member reforging ? sweet jebus how i miss reforging now especialy with loot so scarse

(look at conduits for example - so what if you have like 40 of them when you can only use 4-5 - most crap anyway - if wow was a real mmorpg you could have use like 20 different ones at the same time - making you more and more powerfull - but why deal with it when you can mean it basicly meaningless system - i wonder why they even bothered putting it into game its so bad)

wow is not longer mmorpg in my eyes - its arpg instance symulator that now have idiotic low drprates to force people to buy tokens frm blizzard for boes .

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I don't want this to come across as mean, but the reason it's not working for you, is because you play enough to get 6 choices across the board. You're playing too much, the vault is for casual players to kinda be able to keep up with you.

the problem is not him playing to much - the problem is him not getting rewarded for playing much - while random joe buys his +15 boost and get for example bis weapon

game should reward for playing a lot - not for buying boosts once a week

[Alanar]

Well tbh.. i had nothing good for 2 weeks straight so far, boy o boy this week had 4 capes 1 pants and 1 trinket. None of them I needed.

This is taking for ever..

[Alvito]

How it only seems to have necklaces is a mystery to me so far. At some point it really seems like some psycho GM is sitting there fucking with people when they get loot.

[Bigbazz]

The Vault is a stroke of genius.

Kind of wish the third raid drop would stay a 207 option, for a full NM clear, even after you convert to first to a HC drop though.

I wouldn't go that far, lets not forget people have been suggesting this exact solution for several expansions and it was a big talking point in Legion. It just took Blizzard several expansions to pretend it was their own idea, then figure out how to make it work while also getting you to play more. So instead of 3 options to protect you against awful luck you now do 10 dungeons instead of 1 dungeon to earn the 3 options to protect you against bad luck and then they counterbalance that by lowering loot drops across the board.

So you get less loot and you play more, even more reliant on the end of week RNG reward which can still screw you. I'm guessing items like bracers/rings have a higher chance to be in vault and weapons are lower chance, hence all the posts from people getting duplicate rings, cloaks and bracers weeks in a row.

[Doffen]

I I'm guessing items like bracers/rings have a higher chance to be in vault and weapons are lower chance, hence all the posts from people getting duplicate rings, cloaks and bracers weeks in a row.

There are more rings, cloaks and bracers individually than weapons for your spec, so yes, that is true, and all natural.

And, this is what the vocal minority do. They will come to forums and tell people about duplicate stuff and bad rng. Those who have normal rng what do they do? Stay quiet, and they are the big majority. What we see on forums can't in many cases, especially with something like this, show the whole picture.

Is there bad rng? Definitely! Is The Great Vault better than the old weekly chests? Definitely.

[Utrrabbit]

If you complain about how people play the game and how they have "fun" with it, then you are part of wows problem. Point blank 100% truth. LFR is raid content is it not? it is. Therefore you are a raider, you sound stupid as hell.

No you are not. You are a single player tourist. Nothing on lfr has anything to do with raiding. When 90% of thr group can be afk or dead on every boss on the pull. Lfr is the problem and catering to those people.

[Aliven]

No you are not. You are a single player tourist. Nothing on lfr has anything to do with raiding. When 90% of thr group can be afk or dead on every boss on the pull. Lfr is the problem and catering to those people.

So you are indeed stupid as hell.

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There are more rings, cloaks and bracers individually than weapons for your spec, so yes, that is true, and all natural.

And, this is what the vocal minority do. They will come to forums and tell people about duplicate stuff and bad rng. Those who have normal rng what do they do? Stay quiet, and they are the big majority. What we see on forums can't in many cases, especially with something like this, show the whole picture.

Is there bad rng? Definitely! Is The Great Vault better than the old weekly chests? Definitely.

In a void, yes. Sadly, introduction of vault also castrated the loot drops across the board so, in game, it is worse.

[Gorsameth]

So you are indeed stupid as hell.

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In a void, yes. Sadly, introduction of vault also castrated the loot drops across the board so, in game, it is worse.

That wasn't because of vault but because of Titanforging.

In BfA a lot of gear dropped because most of it was worthless without TF procs.
Without TF, the amount of loot drops are down, because otherwise your in BiS after a month.