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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    None of the complaints he provided have a God damned thing to do with the intended purpose of the GV which is exactly why I said what I did in the first place. And then when somebody rightfully called him out on this bullshit, his response was, "WELL IT'S NOT MY FAULT YOU'RE TOO ADDICTED TO UNDERSTAND ME!!!" This is also not a valid complaint nor is it a reasonable observation to make. With that said, would you kindly stop trying to defend somebody else's shitty position by implying I said something I didn't and actually, I don't know, have something meaningful to contribute to the conversation?
    Stop dude. His complaints about GV are valid whatever you like it or not. Being cynical doesn't make you win conversations which by the way you just hijacked.
    He was replying to some insane comment of dude calling people "monkey brain".

    The whole purpose of GV is flawed. It shifts rewards away from content to weekly click-lootbox with checklist style similar to mobile game design. Not to mention you have no control whatsoever about the outcome.
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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Will so weak? This is a bad argument. I'm paying 15$ sub either way. If I'm not getting my 15$ worth that's not weak will, that's just a bad product.

    I want to play more, but I don't want to grind and that is something you obviously can't understand, none of you addicts can, because you will just arbitrarily grind for anything placed in front of you for any reason, so yeah, I can see how you would be delusional enough to think that people who don't want to arbitrarily grind for random rewards are "weak willed", that is just pathetic addict cope lmao.
    lol, sure i do how much dungeons i want, you feel "forced to grind" 10 bcs there is another option for that, but its ME whos at fault...
    not sure if you are troll or just not too bright, or why the hell do you contradict your own previous comments, but its pointless to argue with people like you...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    And what exactly is your argument? At least he has some, for him game doesn't bring enough enjoyment to justify cost.
    he said he feels forced to play due to vault and in next he said he wants to play more but everyone who plays more due to vault is addict... how is that argument?! that doesnt even make sense and contradicts itself...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I still can't wrap my head around why people ignore all other decisions and say "choice is good", is it so easy to get scammed now?

    Like saying its a good thing because you got a $100 raise in job...

    While ignoring that free daily meals are gone
    Office was moved few km away so you have to travel longer
    paid bonuses are totally gone, that alone could be way higher than 100.
    daily break was reduced from 45 minutes to 15.

    So it's not good if we consider all the things.
    .
    as far as i can tell, only removal of pvp chest is worse, everything else is far better than weekly chest from BFA
    so please enlighten us then, what is so bad about vault?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    He was replying to some insane comment of dude calling people "monkey brain".
    "monkey see monkey do" is pretty much spot on description of people seeing 9 options in vault and think "i HAVE TO do all of this" if you cant comprehend it, well world is much brigther when you are not too bright for it, so good for you, but im done wasting time arguing with someone who ignores point of view of others and keeps hammering the same bullshit point without any arguments whatsoever...

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I think it's a negative though, before your primary upgrades came from doing the content directly. With the vault you're encouraged to do a metric tonne of content to avoid the frustration of getting bad or multiple repeat items, but because direct content now drops less loot and M+ loot quality is lower you're actually relying on that end of week reward as your main way to gain ilvl.

    Now imagine you were a player who came home from work, raided and went to bed, maybe do 2-3 dungeons a week or even just the one for the cache. This kinda player is literally screwed, and the more hardcore (fill out every option) guys have an astronomical advantage. I lived and breathed on raidlogging in the past, it was the only way I could do it, and in TBC/Wrath/Cata/MOP/WOD my char was geared to the balls and all I had to do was show up to a raid 2x a week.

    Now I'm like a peasant while friends who live inside the game do more dungeons in a week than I can do in a month. And I think I try to squeeze out 2-3 vault options a week while picking up no upgrades along the way and I get the same items several times over, 2 weeks with ilvl 216-223 items in cache and no upgrades.
    I dunno what you want. How else would you treat repeatable content? You cannot just "farm" 226 ilvl items, without making all other content irrelevant reward wise.
    And if you don't have the time (or dont want) to complete 4 dungeons a week, you just have to change your expectations, or play a different game.

  4. #164
    Herald of the Titans czarek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDancer View Post
    So I was open minded about the Great Vault being an interesting addition to the end of week rewards. It sounded like an interesting evolution to the weekly chest.

    But now, 2 weeks running I’m thinking it’s either broken or just complete garbage.

    2 weeks running, I’ve had 6 unlocks in the vault for 6 choices, and of those 6, 5 are just an ilvl upgrade of something I’m wearing that I want to replace, and 1 is some other piece of rando gear.

    With having 12 choices the last 2 weeks, I think I’d have been lucky to have gotten 1 piece of gear with haste. But no, it’s all the same crappy crit gear I’m trying to replace with haste gear.

    Anyone else noticing extraordinarily bad “luck” when it comes to the vault choices? What are the odd of it offering me 5 choices of the exact item I’ve already equipped if the selections were completely random?
    Weekly chest was pure RNG. Secondary stats are random yes that can hurt but imo better to chose 1 of a few than get 1 totally random >< For me its ok. Much better than weekly chest.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You won't get more than 1-3 for entire season, let alone full gear. And if you do, you should play lotteries. Math, do you know it? Probability calcs, ever heard of?

    If we take just great vault as standalone system then yes it's better than just chest, but we don't unless we are susceptible to scam.
    People need to realize that in context of overall gearing system, GV doesn't save them from bad RNG. In fact, it does the complete opposite because of:
    1. Lack of any alternatives (badges, tf, coins, master loot), literally lack of any bad luck protection system
    2. Gigantic disparity between rewards from actual content vs vault rewards.

    So all and all, GV is shit.
    technically GV is brilliant as it premiums the most vocal crowd - streamers and youtubrs get carried plus they play like 80 hours a week so ofc they get bis

    while 90 % of playerbase who dont get carried / dont play 80 hours a week get rubbish choices , get screwed by rng and will take a year to gear up .

    so streamers/youtubers do the PR job sayin how brilliant expansion is while your average player ? either he accepts being 2nd rate citizen or leaves game

    1 thing is certain - streamers certainly won this expansion - even though its killing this game

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Stop dude. His complaints about GV are valid whatever you like it or not. Being cynical doesn't make you win conversations which by the way you just hijacked.
    He was replying to some insane comment of dude calling people "monkey brain".

    The whole purpose of GV is flawed. It shifts rewards away from content to weekly click-lootbox with checklist style similar to mobile game design. Not to mention you have no control whatsoever about the outcome.
    im just waiting patiently for blizzard to introduce in 9.1 option to pay 20 euro for access to 3 choices a week without playing any content

    we are literaly 1 tiny step away from such system

    and such system makes perfect sense in SL doesnt it ?

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    I dunno what you want. How else would you treat repeatable content? You cannot just "farm" 226 ilvl items, without making all other content irrelevant reward wise.
    And if you don't have the time (or dont want) to complete 4 dungeons a week, you just have to change your expectations, or play a different game.
    Well more reliable gearing, offer a currency as a secondary option. I've farmed 2-3 vault items from M+ weekly so far, had a lot of duplicates (bracers/neck/rings) and while the 3rd duplicate ring was the lower ilvl option this week, the highest option was another ring and my ideal legendary slot is a ring.. A currency would have been great, to spend towards something at least remotely targeted.

    And I also think M+ nevermind the vault the dungeon drops themselves are too low for the difficulty of the content. It's like a +14 up is mythic raider territory and the loot is like normal mode raiding, I think a M10-12 should be dropping 210 and a M+15 should be 213-216 ish. The vault'd be great if it had some protections in place, like not allowing 3 of the same slot or eliminating the item from the pool for a few weeks after it's chosen as an option.

    Lets not forget the new Vault was meant to be bad luck protection but they bundled it with less loot from all other content, actively nerfing drops. They even nerfed timewalking drops because people were getting 2 items for a full clear.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by LDancer View Post
    Anyone else noticing extraordinarily bad “luck” when it comes to the vault choices? What are the odd of it offering me 5 choices of the exact item I’ve already equipped if the selections were completely random?
    They're not completely random. The pvp options offer you gear from a pool of pvp gear. The raid options offer you gear from the raids. And the keystone options offer you gear from the 5-mans.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  8. #168
    I like the idea of the great vault. With that said.. Am I the only one thinking the requirements are a bit steep? Many of the activites requires time to complete, especially if you want to take part in several aspects of the game.

    Personally I would love a return of justice/valor system along with the GV. Make GV generate random good gear while badges could serve as a means to buy decent enough gear. It also sucks running dungeons/raids without getting jack shit. Atleast give me something.

    PvP actually feels decent enough atm, cause win or lose, you get honor that you can spend on something.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    You need friends who play with you in order for the Great Vault to be an actual fun thing. Outside of that it's just chores.

    "Okay, I do this many dungeons now, even though I would never do this many, just for the sake of vault"
    "Okay, now I grind this much extra honor, vault"
    "Okay, now I kill the same bosses again, just on a different difficulty now, the Vault silly"

    If I'm not having fun doing the content in the first place, by myself, I'm not gonna wanna do more of it. I'll admit I don't have anyone to play with this xpac.
    But people saying this is better than BFA? Nah, it's the same, not better or worse. Same being: I still don't want to to the content, therefore the chest is meaningless lol.

    My vote: remove the Vault because you can see it's now more a carrot on a stick than ever before.
    I don't hate the vault, but totaly agree with this.
    I enjoy doing some arena with a friend, but atm I'm mainly doing arena to get at least 2 choices while I also 'need' to keep up with the campaign, renown and torghast.
    Maybe I should just stop seeing everything as a "I must do all this before the weekly reset" and just do the stuff I enjoy

  10. #170
    The vault is one of the best things about Shadowlands hands down

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by LDancer View Post
    So I was open minded about the Great Vault being an interesting addition to the end of week rewards. It sounded like an interesting evolution to the weekly chest.

    But now, 2 weeks running I’m thinking it’s either broken or just complete garbage.

    2 weeks running, I’ve had 6 unlocks in the vault for 6 choices, and of those 6, 5 are just an ilvl upgrade of something I’m wearing that I want to replace, and 1 is some other piece of rando gear.

    With having 12 choices the last 2 weeks, I think I’d have been lucky to have gotten 1 piece of gear with haste. But no, it’s all the same crappy crit gear I’m trying to replace with haste gear.

    Anyone else noticing extraordinarily bad “luck” when it comes to the vault choices? What are the odd of it offering me 5 choices of the exact item I’ve already equipped if the selections were completely random?
    sounds like someone is salty af

  12. #172
    I'm happy with the vault. I get the choice between 3 challenger pvp items, 2-3 ilvl 220-223 pieces from mythic+ and 3 213-220 pieces from CN. I suck at pvp, but capping honor and reaching a decent rating is still easy in RBGs.

    All the activities that unlock Vault choices are things I find entertaining anyway, so I don't really feel like I'm working towards my Vault loot, and having a choice is a big improvement over the previous incarnation of the m+ weekly chest.
    Quote Originally Posted by AZSolii View Post
    "yes, let's piss him off because he loves his long hair. Let us twirl our evil mustaches amidst the background music of honky-tonk pianos! GENIUS!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Culexus View Post
    Yes i hate those sneaky account thieves that come to my house and steal my computer in order to steal some wow money! Those bastards! *shakes fist*

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I still can't wrap my head around why people ignore all other decisions and say "choice is good", is it so easy to get scammed now?

    Like saying its a good thing because you got a $100 raise in job...

    While ignoring that free daily meals are gone
    Office was moved few km away so you have to travel longer
    paid bonuses are totally gone, that alone could be way higher than 100.
    daily break was reduced from 45 minutes to 15.

    So it's not good if we consider all the things.
    LOL, how is this possible??? What an analogy!

    TGV is way better than the old chest, its not even compareable. You are bringing 7 more arguments int your posts because you know you can't argue against that fact.

    Nice sig btw. Both are wrong, the second one no one ever said so you are kinda being a hypocrite, again. Not surprisingly. When you write quotes like that, people tend to actually link the exact quote, but you can't because its made up. Keep it coming as always!

    My sig however, is 100% true. 8% percentile, making rotation addons. Class CE(bought) raider
    Last edited by Doffen; 2021-01-07 at 09:23 AM.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Stop dude. His complaints about GV are valid whatever you like it or not. Being cynical doesn't make you win conversations which by the way you just hijacked.
    He was replying to some insane comment of dude calling people "monkey brain".

    The whole purpose of GV is flawed. It shifts rewards away from content to weekly click-lootbox with checklist style similar to mobile game design. Not to mention you have no control whatsoever about the outcome.

    Dude, honestly now, tell uncle ymir: are you on drugs?
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    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  15. #175
    I will post my opinion later, after checking out what I've got in the GV.


  16. #176
    My biggest complaint about the vault is the ilvl distribution, not the RNG, I think the choice to content ratio is pretty good and its way better than the BFA chest but the fact that completing a single M+8, not even on time, is more valuable than killing the first 8 Heroic Bosses is a big problem. The raid row has been completely irrelevant to me every week since castle opened because my M+ row is always significantly higher ilvl. This is problematic.

    Raid gear in general feels problematic. As my guild was clearing through normal Nathria, I was vendoring or trading nearly every drop because I was in full 200 or better in almost every slot by the time the raid opened. This is the first raid in the history of my wow experience that in week 1 it offered almost no upgrades for me until heroic and even now that we are working on heroic, half the gear in heroic isn't an upgrade either. Getting loot in a raid is a rewarding feeling. It is unfortunate that it is missing in SL. I honestly don't even care about the low drop rates in the raid because most bosses don't have anything I want.

    Be interesting to see what happens with tier sets in future raids if this pattern persists. If tier set items are only available in raid it will really mess with things if M+ is still rewarding significantly higher ilvl gear relative to skill requirement/effort. Players will be forced to choose between a lower ilvl or having a set bonus. (mythic raiding being the exception, but that isn't content most players will push while it is current)

  17. #177
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    I've already seen this several times that players are either misinformed or take secondary stats way more important than they usually are for their class/spec, does someone know where that thinking came from?
    In the past, when we had really high ilvl gear and secondary stat values were huge, secondary stats were king. Now, they actually provide minimal increases. Their importance is only noticeable on jewelry.
    Check out my game, Craftsmith, on the Google Play Store!

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    I'm pretty sure that in Legion and BfA secondary stats were valued much higher than they are now. We saw some crazy corruption stacking (Mages+Mastery, Rogues+Haste were stupid OP) in Ny'alotha and that depended much less on ilevel and much more on the secondary stats.
    You're right. Somewhere in early-mid Legion they increased the amount of secondary stats you needed to get 1% by quite a bit. And as the poster below you says as of SL you now start getting diminishing returns if you stack too heavily.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    technically GV is brilliant as it premiums the most vocal crowd - streamers and youtubrs get carried plus they play like 80 hours a week so ofc they get bis

    while 90 % of playerbase who dont get carried / dont play 80 hours a week get rubbish choices , get screwed by rng and will take a year to gear up .

    so streamers/youtubers do the PR job sayin how brilliant expansion is while your average player ? either he accepts being 2nd rate citizen or leaves game

    1 thing is certain - streamers certainly won this expansion - even though its killing this game
    The thing is, not even playing 80h a week guarantee anything. The only way to guarantee anything is to buy BoE from raid.
    Ship has been abandoned.
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    NextUI for XIV


  20. #180
    Man, wow used to be good. But now that I only get 2 pieces to drop from m+ instead of 3? I just don't know. Now raids only drop like 1-2 pieces per clear instead of 2-3???? Better unsub lmao. Yall are clowns. GV gives 9x as many options as previous chests too. Gear is easy mode.

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