Blizzard is literaly rigging the system

[Polyxo]

stfu yes you are

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lmao anyone who says it isn't difficult nor complex is just exposing their lack of knowledge on the subject. Sure, any dumbass straight out of a programming course can create a machine learning algorithm, it's pretty basic statistical modelling, but I guarantee you that it will be a shit model. Automating something capable of doing what some posters here are claiming would be an insanely difficult and computationally expensive endeavor.

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Uhh what? How would they know what cards to give you without some kind of algorithm to even determine your type of deck? Even that alone would be a difficult task.

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You're literally just saying nonsense. Stop talking about subjects you zero knowledge of.

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Apparently they think machine learning is magic.

Nope, I'm not, and nope, it wouldn't be difficult.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

That doesn't exactly work with Hearthstone though.

It's easy to tweak stuff like that if you're having people vs an AI, but Hearthstone is against other players.
The massive scale you'd have to build on to rig every single individual game just to encourage people to buy cards would be insane.

And also disregards how many times people have pushed high while being F2P players.

I mean, some people make a million bucks of quarter slots too? So what? That doesn't mean Blizzard doesn't manipulate things to try to get you to buy more packs.

The massive scale of what? Are you an expert in AI and computing? It wouldn't be that complicated, its not like they need to scan every card you have and give it an ELO or something, they could just put you against opponents with much higher ELO/win rates etc. There are plenty of ways to rig the system in their favor, I didn't say that they are giving you no win scenarios.

Or even a simple rock beats scissors, so they make your "scissors" deck play against a "rock" deck or something. Nothing is guaranteed, just like in slots. Its just skewed in favor of the house.

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That would be incredibly complex and expensive in computing. Conspiracy theories aren't cute. Entertaining them with "It wouldn't even be difficult" is also not cute.

Uhh would it?

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I don't think you understand how insanely complex and dynamic their match making would have to be to account for current metas and know what decks counter what. They would also have to identify what kind of deck a player even has. That would probably be the easiest part of it but still require a pretty advanced machine learning algorithm that would have to be updated constantly.

I mean, you're calling me ignorant here, but what are you credentials exactly?

I also never said they take your deck and match it to your counter, so I am not even sure what you are arguing against.

[TrollHunter3000]

I mean, some people make a million bucks of quarter slots too? So what? That doesn't mean Blizzard doesn't manipulate things to try to get you to buy more packs.

The massive scale of what? Are you an expert in AI and computing? It wouldn't be that complicated, its not like they need to scan every card you have and give it an ELO or something, they could just put you against opponents with much higher ELO/win rates etc. There are plenty of ways to rig the system in their favor, I didn't say that they are giving you no win scenarios.

Or even a simple rock beats scissors, so they make your "scissors" deck play against a "rock" deck or something. Nothing is guaranteed, just like in slots. Its just skewed in favor of the house.

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Uhh would it?

to do what the other poster is claiming (feeding certain cards to your hand that aren't good for you) would be extremely complex. What you're talking about is literally how MMR works. So, sure, they could do what you're suggesting fairly easily but it's doubtful considering the goal of MMR is to get players around a 50% winrate

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I mean, some people make a million bucks of quarter slots too? So what? That doesn't mean Blizzard doesn't manipulate things to try to get you to buy more packs.

The massive scale of what? Are you an expert in AI and computing? It wouldn't be that complicated, its not like they need to scan every card you have and give it an ELO or something, they could just put you against opponents with much higher ELO/win rates etc. There are plenty of ways to rig the system in their favor, I didn't say that they are giving you no win scenarios.

Or even a simple rock beats scissors, so they make your "scissors" deck play against a "rock" deck or something. Nothing is guaranteed, just like in slots. Its just skewed in favor of the house.

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Uhh would it?

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I mean, you're calling me ignorant here, but what are you credentials exactly?

I also never said they take your deck and match it to your counter, so I am not even sure what you are arguing against.

to do what the other poster is claiming (feeding certain cards to your hand that aren't good for you) would be extremely complex. What you're talking about is literally how MMR works. So, sure, they could do what you're suggesting fairly easily but it's doubtful considering the goal of MMR is to get players around a 50% winrate.

That argument was made by another poster, figured you were just agreeing. My credentials is that I literally create machine learning algorithms for a living. Do you have advanced degrees in mathematics and 10+ years of programming experience?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Can someone explain to me how a person comes to the conclusion that Blizzard is rigging the system when they have absolutely no way of knowing what decks each player is running at a given time and how to match them up against other players that they will 100% beat? It seems ludicrous.

Do you think that information is encrypted or something on your machine when you edit your deck?

[PaladinBash]

Build crazy anti-MEQ list, go to tournament, everyone plays Dark Eldar. Build list able to shred Raiders, go to tournament, everyone plays fucking Marines. It do be like that in every game OP.

[Vakna]

Do you think that information is encrypted or something on your machine when you edit your deck?

Do you honestly think that Blizzard has a deep learning AI constantly crawling through every player logged in, keeping track of their decks and the current deck metas, and actively pairing them up against people with decks that are worse against them for a short time when they spend money in the shop? Or do you just think OP had a bad luck streak/played bad? Which is really more probable?


Honestly the level of reaching.... next you'll be telling me the Earth is flat and contrails dump gay chemicals on the populace too.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

to do what the other poster is claiming (feeding certain cards to your hand that aren't good for you) would be extremely complex. What you're talking about is literally how MMR works. So, sure, they could do what you're suggesting fairly easily but it's doubtful considering the goal of MMR is to get players around a 50% winrate

I didn't claim that cards are being organized to you, so I am not sure what you are replying to me about that.

"The goal of MMR" .... the goal of MMR originally? Sure. Like you don't think they could take the basic idea of MMR and manipulate it to make money? Thats completely out of the realm of possibility for you? A corporation is above that morally, and uncapable to do that with current technology?

The basic idea I am talking about is already proven to be a thing in CoD (you know, owned by Activision)... rubberbanding with Skill Based Match Making. People started noticing that within 10-20 matches they would go from massively stomping to just massively getting stomped. Obviously to get you within a very tight ELO range.

Well the problem is that Activision owns a patent on an algorithm that account for many other things outside of "KDR" in COD, which in my opinion, would be much harder to account for since a lot more is going on versus something like a turned based game.

According to the Reddit user, the system culminates data on basic in-game parameters (such as kills, deaths, damage per minute), all the way up to how a player navigates a map (such as movement speed and area covered).

For example, the Reddit user points out that the patent monitors player strengths/weaknesses based on (and not limited to): how player’s respond to scenarios, changes in strategy in response to scenarios, usage of weapons, etc.

In short, the tracking system develops a profile of player traits to better map how players will respond versus opponents of a similar profile. Meaning that (in theory), the game’s servers should place you in a lobby with players who exhibit similar tendencies.

https://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNu...id=20190329139
https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=10322351

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Do you honestly think that Blizzard has a deep learning AI constantly crawling through every player logged in, keeping track of their decks and the current deck metas, and actively pairing them up against people with decks that are worse against them for a short time when they spend money in the shop? Or do you just think OP had a bad luck streak/played bad? Which is really more probable?


Honestly the level of reaching.... next you'll be telling me the Earth is flat and contrails dump gay chemicals on the populace too.

I have no idea why you use the word "constantly" here. You make a deck and the program can match it a template for a basic "meta" deck and it gives your deck that you named " Face Hunter" an ID of " VAKNA#101!" and it would know that its basically a face hunter deck and match you up with a counter. Its not to guarantee you a loss, its to push the odds against you if the game sees you as someone who spends a lot of money in game. It probably thinks Polxyo either spends money often, or is due to spend money, or spends money after losing streaks. Just like Your grocery store knows you normally buy bananas weekly so they send you a coupon hoping you buy extra and they end up with more money.

And it doesn't even need to be that difficult. You are given a hidden MMR that is different from your current rank. If it wants you to lose, it would just put you up against someone with a much higher hidden MMR, but that would be in a similar rank/season as you.

To answer you question, do I think Blizzard has AI that can do that? No, but Activision has patents for things that already do since 2019 .... I posted them, they are public and you can read them.

They even account for things like, Vakna has a super cool gun skin and I don't, so they are more likely to match me in games with Vakna in hopes that I buy gun skins. I read that part of the patent myself.

[Takure]

lmao anyone who says it isn't difficult nor complex is just exposing their lack of knowledge on the subject. Sure, any dumbass straight out of a programming course can create a machine learning algorithm, it's pretty basic statistical modelling, but I guarantee you that it will be a shit model. Automating something capable of doing what some posters here are claiming would be an insanely difficult and computationally expensive endeavor.

I am a researcher for the CSIRO. We have many published papers on MLA. People simply do not understand what's possible. YOU work in the field with limited understanding. We have been developing the field. Just as there are many people working in the sciences, very little of them fully understand their work and are at the cutting edge.

The fact that you attack my intelligence as a primary argument speaks volumes about your character.

Good luck

Sheesh dude, you really are that guy.

Its no conspiracy mate.

Data is gold if you can use it correctly.

[Vakna]

I didn't claim that cards are being organized to you, so I am not sure what you are replying to me about that.

"The goal of MMR" .... the goal of MMR originally? Sure. Like you don't think they could take the basic idea of MMR and manipulate it to make money? Thats completely out of the realm of possibility for you? A corporation is above that morally, and uncapable to do that with current technology?

The basic idea I am talking about is already proven to be a thing in CoD (you know, owned by Activision)... rubberbanding with Skill Based Match Making. People started noticing that within 10-20 matches they would go from massively stomping to just massively getting stomped. Obviously to get you within a very tight ELO range.

Well the problem is that Activision owns a patent on an algorithm that account for many other things outside of "KDR" in COD, which in my opinion, would be much harder to account for since a lot more is going on versus something like a turned based game.



https://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNu...id=20190329139
https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=10322351

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I have no idea why you use the word "constantly" here. You make a deck and the program can match it a template for a basic "meta" deck and it gives your deck that you named " Face Hunter" an ID of " VAKNA#101!" and it would know that its basically a face hunter deck and match you up with a counter. Its not to guarantee you a loss, its to push the odds against you if the game sees you as someone who spends a lot of money in game. It probably thinks Polxyo either spends money often, or is due to spend money, or spends money after losing streaks. Just like Your grocery store knows you normally buy bananas weekly so they send you a coupon hoping you buy extra and they end up with more money.

And it doesn't even need to be that difficult. You are given a hidden MMR that is different from your current rank. If it wants you to lose, it would just put you up against someone with a much higher hidden MMR, but that would be in a similar rank/season as you.

To answer you question, do I think Blizzard has AI that can do that? No, but Activision has patents for things that already do since 2019 .... I posted them, they are public and you can read them.

They even account for things like, Vakna has a super cool gun skin and I don't, so they are more likely to match me in games with Vakna in hopes that I buy gun skins. I read that part of the patent myself.

Sheesh dude, you really are that guy.

[TrollHunter3000]

I am a researcher for the CSIRO. We have many published papers on MLA. People simply do not understand what's possible. YOU work in the field with limited understanding. We have been developing the field. Just as there are many people working in the sciences, very little of them fully understand their work and are at the cutting edge.

The fact that you attack my intelligence as a primary argument speaks volumes about your character.

Good luck



Its no conspiracy mate.

Data is gold if you can use it correctly.

lmao the theory for what ML can do is very different from reality.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

Yeah, the world is against you but not any other players.

[hulkgor]

This thread has really gone places.

[Takure]

lmao the theory for what ML can do is very different from reality.

Your ignorance is showing, Mr. "Programmer".

[Amarys]

And if that's how it worked, we wouldn't see outliner classes with low win rates and high win rates.

Another issue being that the idea is this goes as far as controlling what you draw, which is the point that I'm saying that would be a massive undertaking just to screw people out from drawing certain cards like Polyxo is claiming is happening to them.

I don't think card draw is controlled but matchmaking certainly seems to be. It's not just me who has noticed it but if you no life play all day and keep winning, you usually get chain matched vs a counter deck.. over and over and if you switch decks, they're magically gone. This is too big of a coincidence and Bnet forums are full of similar complaints.

[Torgent]

I don't think card draw is controlled but matchmaking certainly seems to be. It's not just me who has noticed it but if you no life play all day and keep winning, you usually get chain matched vs a counter deck.. over and over and if you switch decks, they're magically gone. This is too big of a coincidence and Bnet forums are full of similar complaints.

And 4chan is full of people that swear there are aliens abducting people in the back of a walmart. Just because a lot of people say something, doesn't mean it's true

[Amarys]

And 4chan is full of people that swear there are aliens abducting people in the back of a walmart. Just because a lot of people say something, doesn't mean it's true

Well, could be but when you play a lot, you encounter many statistical improbabilities. So for example just a day ago. Played around 100 games (small sample size I know) and when I started winning with my wild rogue deck, I started encountering more and more pirate quest warriors on average 40% and then 7 in a row. They pretty much hard counter that deck. When I switched to my res priest, all the warriors were magically gone and it was nothing but shamans and Togwaggle druids, decks that I never even knew existed while I was playing my rogue deck.

So can this happen without rigging? Maybe. But if this keeps happening every time you go on a win streak, it's a clear indicator that something is fishy.