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  1. #1

    I wish I could play enhance

    I’m a necro ele shaman, I am not a mythic raider (atm) but I do like to do the most damage I can possibly do. I sometimes wish I could switch to enhance just for something different.

    I thought about switching to venthyr but looking at warcraftlogs shows the difference in dps between necro and venthyr elemental is about 1k dps on pure ST.

    Anyone else wish the covenants were more balanced and multi specing was possible on all classes?

    Feel like my best option to play a melee spec is to level up an alt, meaning twice the chores each week.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral kosajk's Avatar
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    you can play enh with necro to, dps wise should be not that big difference as long as you will play with setting things up for big bang with their ability :P
    could only assume that throwing 2-3 FS before using it may be not that big hassle as changing cove in the end

    about balancing covenants yea that`s pain in the ass, im playing resto as offspec and going necro would be much better for that alone in m+
    Last edited by kosajk; 2021-01-07 at 07:52 AM.

    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  3. #3
    Freakin top1% raiders who wanted covenants to be easily switchable, but no-huh MEANINGFUL CHOICE right?
    Why is Blizzard so stubborn I don't get it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    you can play enh with necro to, dps wise should be not that big difference as long as you will play with setting things up for big bang with their ability :P
    could only assume that throwing 2-3 FS before using it may be not that big hassle as changing cove in the end

    about balancing covenants yea that`s pain in the ass, im playing resto as offspec and going necro would be much better for that alone in m+
    Playing enhance without chain harvest is so painful, especially if you are doing mythic+. The aoe and the insane healing with 5 stacks of maelstrom is crazy. There are packs where I hold chain harvest just to have it at key times for the heal.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral kosajk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Playing enhance without chain harvest is so painful, especially if you are doing mythic+. The aoe and the insane healing with 5 stacks of maelstrom is crazy. There are packs where I hold chain harvest just to have it at key times for the heal.
    yea think exactly the same but if he is invested in other convo changing it just to play different spec which he may like or not in the end? hmm i would say its perfectly playable with necro to no fast big bangs like with venthyrs but hey he can try it for some time and change later on when sure that enh is his go to spec
    tbh i have seen some enh`s that play necro or kyrian by choice to

    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    yea think exactly the same but if he is invested in other convo changing it just to play different spec which he may like or not in the end? hmm i would say its perfectly playable with necro to no fast big bangs like with venthyrs but hey he can try it for some time and change later on when sure that enh is his go to spec
    tbh i have seen some enh`s that play necro or kyrian by choice to
    you can play necro enhance and pretend you don't have a cov ability. just throw in pw instead of fs every once in a while and just keep going as normal. the dps difference overall isn't that huge for an offspec your not going to play as much.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birchhh View Post
    I’m a necro ele shaman, I am not a mythic raider (atm) but I do like to do the most damage I can possibly do.
    Then you shouldn't even be a Shaman in the first place.

    But since you are, use whatever reasoning you applied in that case to be a Enhancement Shaman.

    And stop being a "meta-slave", it's an ugly look. No one likes Tier Lists "enthusiasts".

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Then you shouldn't even be a Shaman in the first place.

    But since you are, use whatever reasoning you applied in that case to be a Enhancement Shaman.

    And stop being a "meta-slave", it's an ugly look. No one likes Tier Lists "enthusiasts".
    I disagree with you, as would many others. Wanting to get the most out of your character not does not equate to having to pick the meta/flavour class. Many of us will pick the class that fits their ideal playstyle, fantasy or whatever their criteria and then want to maximise their chosen class and this includes myself.

    I'd love to try enhance but the reality is that covenants currently make a fundamental difference to the power of a class and Chain Harvest is the best button enhance has. If you look at most broken things in pvp right now as an example, almost all are due to covenants (Chain Harvest, The Hunt, Weapons of Order, Echoing Reprimand, Mind Games, Divine Toll, Convoke and the list goes on).

    Personally I'd like if it they made swapping coventants less punishing (and it seems a shame to punish people wanting to try out more content they've put the time into developing!) or otherwise reduce the impact of the abilities.

  9. #9
    I would never think "I need to switch covennant if i want to try Frost or blood" as unholy DK

    Kinda backwards thinking imo.

    Just play what you enjoy.

    I've even been frost for a few torghast runs or world quests.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by birchhh View Post
    I’m a necro ele shaman, I am not a mythic raider (atm) but I do like to do the most damage I can possibly do. I sometimes wish I could switch to enhance just for something different.

    I thought about switching to venthyr but looking at warcraftlogs shows the difference in dps between necro and venthyr elemental is about 1k dps on pure ST.

    Anyone else wish the covenants were more balanced and multi specing was possible on all classes?

    Feel like my best option to play a melee spec is to level up an alt, meaning twice the chores each week.
    Venthyr is like 1-2% behind on st, not 1k.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csguba View Post
    I disagree with you, as would many others. Wanting to get the most out of your character not does not equate to having to pick the meta/flavour class. Many of us will pick the class that fits their ideal playstyle, fantasy or whatever their criteria and then want to maximise their chosen class and this includes myself.

    I'd love to try enhance but the reality is that covenants currently make a fundamental difference to the power of a class and Chain Harvest is the best button enhance has. If you look at most broken things in pvp right now as an example, almost all are due to covenants (Chain Harvest, The Hunt, Weapons of Order, Echoing Reprimand, Mind Games, Divine Toll, Convoke and the list goes on).

    Personally I'd like if it they made swapping coventants less punishing (and it seems a shame to punish people wanting to try out more content they've put the time into developing!) or otherwise reduce the impact of the abilities.
    1 - Many others also agree with me. We are in mmo-champion, using random statistics as arguments is boderline trolling.

    2 - If it does not equate to having to pick the meta/flavour class, it also does not equate to having to pick the meta/flavour spec and Covenant. To say otherwise is hypocrisy. If you or anyone else wanna be a Necrolord Enhancement Shaman, then it falls into the same principle: it fits your ideal playstyle, fantasy or whatever criteria, so go maximize under those parameters.

    3 - Covenants are a fundamental difference of power, and so are specs and Class. Yet you are a Shaman. Use whatever reasoning that led you into a Shaman to be a Necrolord Enhancement. If you think you can't because of power differences, but magically those power differences don't influence your class choice, then this whole problem is irrational. What, you min-maxing starts at spec/covenant but stops at class? Weird.

    4 - Covenants being hard to swap are a cornerstone of this expansion, and it rewards commitment. It was a long, old complaint of the community that our choices were inconsequential, and as you prove, the players love to chose only the most powerful - hence why this choice affects power among other things.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    1 - Many others also agree with me. We are in mmo-champion, using random statistics as arguments is boderline trolling.

    2 - If it does not equate to having to pick the meta/flavour class, it also does not equate to having to pick the meta/flavour spec and Covenant. To say otherwise is hypocrisy. If you or anyone else wanna be a Necrolord Enhancement Shaman, then it falls into the same principle: it fits your ideal playstyle, fantasy or whatever criteria, so go maximize under those parameters.

    3 - Covenants are a fundamental difference of power, and so are specs and Class. Yet you are a Shaman. Use whatever reasoning that led you into a Shaman to be a Necrolord Enhancement. If you think you can't because of power differences, but magically those power differences don't influence your class choice, then this whole problem is irrational. What, you min-maxing starts at spec/covenant but stops at class? Weird.

    4 - Covenants being hard to swap are a cornerstone of this expansion, and it rewards commitment. It was a long, old complaint of the community that our choices were inconsequential, and as you prove, the players love to chose only the most powerful - hence why this choice affects power among other things.
    In regards to your first point, the reason I say this is because in your original post you stated as a matter of fact, that people should not roll Shaman if they like maximising. I'm simply reminding you that people play the game for different reasons. People can play Shaman, or any class, and want to maximise that class.

    I don't really understand a lot of your later reasoning, you're trying too hard to make your argument honestly. Playing/choosing a class is incredibly different to picking a covenant, it's the core mechanics and playstyle you're picking with a class. I would like to try enhancement to it's maximum potential is all I'm saying, but I main resto/ele so I can't without significant drawback of going back.

    We obviously disagree though fundamentally, I'm in the crowd that wants to be able to change easily to enjoy the various different content/abilities whereas you want the player choice to be a commitment so I'll just leave it there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    I would never think "I need to switch covennant if i want to try Frost or blood" as unholy DK

    Kinda backwards thinking imo.

    Just play what you enjoy.

    I've even been frost for a few torghast runs or world quests.
    Sure that’s great as a DK, but the covenant abilities aren’t so significantly different. E.g. abom limb is bis for pvp regardless of spec.

    Chain Harvest works with maelstrom stacks as enhance giving it the ability to literally lay on hands your party while hitting 15-20k to the opponent. It is massive. Primordial Wave in comparison does very little for enhance but as elemental being able to duplicate lava burst onto other targets again is really quite phenomenal. The power shift between the two in pvp is night and day.

    I think it’s a shame personally I can’t try this out without being so punishing to change back.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by csguba View Post
    In regards to your first point, the reason I say this is because in your original post you stated as a matter of fact, that people should not roll Shaman if they like maximising. I'm simply reminding you that people play the game for different reasons. People can play Shaman, or any class, and want to maximise that class.

    I don't really understand a lot of your later reasoning, you're trying too hard to make your argument honestly. Playing/choosing a class is incredibly different to picking a covenant, it's the core mechanics and playstyle you're picking with a class. I would like to try enhancement to it's maximum potential is all I'm saying, but I main resto/ele so I can't without significant drawback of going back.

    We obviously disagree though fundamentally, I'm in the crowd that wants to be able to change easily to enjoy the various different content/abilities whereas you want the player choice to be a commitment so I'll just leave it there.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Sure that’s great as a DK, but the covenant abilities aren’t so significantly different. E.g. abom limb is bis for pvp regardless of spec.

    Chain Harvest works with maelstrom stacks as enhance giving it the ability to literally lay on hands your party while hitting 15-20k to the opponent. It is massive. Primordial Wave in comparison does very little for enhance but as elemental being able to duplicate lava burst onto other targets again is really quite phenomenal. The power shift between the two in pvp is night and day.

    I think it’s a shame personally I can’t try this out without being so punishing to change back.
    Thanks for agreeing mate, appreciate it.

    I’m definitely not a meta slave and like you said I just want to be able to play the spec to it’s full potential which is not achievable as an ele/resto main who is playing Necro. I’ve honestly contemplated rolling another shaman just to play venthyr enhance - something I have never thought of doing in the past haha.

    For some context I have a rogue alt which is assassination because I generally enjoy the spec. If I was a “meta slave” I would be another sub/outlaw rogue.

  14. #14
    I'm not sure why ele is getting written off as a less than viable class? Chozo seems a little misguided.

    Unfortunately venthyr is just worse than necro for ele and that will only get worse as the last potency is unlocked with emeni and the second soulbind trait is unlocked for Heirmir. With that said if you're not raiding mythic you're probably safe to swap to venthyr if you really want to play some enhance. Like I said, venthyr is worse for ele than necro but nowhere near as bad as necro is for enhance.

    If there is a fire nova buff for enh I see necro being a viable choice so fingers crossed for some changes before next tier

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by hungrytiger View Post
    I'm not sure why ele is getting written off as a less than viable class? Chozo seems a little misguided.

    Unfortunately venthyr is just worse than necro for ele and that will only get worse as the last potency is unlocked with emeni and the second soulbind trait is unlocked for Heirmir. With that said if you're not raiding mythic you're probably safe to swap to venthyr if you really want to play some enhance. Like I said, venthyr is worse for ele than necro but nowhere near as bad as necro is for enhance.

    If there is a fire nova buff for enh I see necro being a viable choice so fingers crossed for some changes before next tier
    Guy derailed the entire thread to grind in axe in the most obnoxious way humanly possible. Fuck trash posts like that.

    Can you fucking imagine having to have someone like that life? A living example of the ACKSHULLY meme.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Merin View Post
    Guy derailed the entire thread to grind in axe in the most obnoxious way humanly possible. Fuck trash posts like that.

    Can you fucking imagine having to have someone like that life? A living example of the ACKSHULLY meme.
    Yeah what an absolute tit.

    OT: I agree, I'm desperate to play Enhance but I'm main Resto and Necrolord is just great.

    Chozo is talking horseshit because there is no synergy between PWave at Enhancement's toolkit; it's clunky and awkward and requires a change to your gameplay that doesn't pay off at all when with Venthyr it's one-bang and you're done.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by birchhh View Post
    I’m a necro ele shaman, I am not a mythic raider (atm) but I do like to do the most damage I can possibly do. I sometimes wish I could switch to enhance just for something different.

    I thought about switching to venthyr but looking at warcraftlogs shows the difference in dps between necro and venthyr elemental is about 1k dps on pure ST.

    Anyone else wish the covenants were more balanced and multi specing was possible on all classes?

    Feel like my best option to play a melee spec is to level up an alt, meaning twice the chores each week.
    When looking at logs you need to consider who are making those logs. If all of the good ele shamans are playing necro then it will definitely make venthyr seem worse than it is. If all the best ele players in the world switched to venthyr you would see logs much closer to the necro.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    When looking at logs you need to consider who are making those logs. If all of the good ele shamans are playing necro then it will definitely make venthyr seem worse than it is. If all the best ele players in the world switched to venthyr you would see logs much closer to the necro.
    The problem is that after playing necro with ele or venthyr with enhance, the specs don't feel complete without those abilities. Chain harvest especially is just too good with 5x maelstrom as a utility spell never mind the burst aoe damage.

  19. #19
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csguba View Post
    I disagree with you, as would many others. Wanting to get the most out of your character not does not equate to having to pick the meta/flavour class. Many of us will pick the class that fits their ideal playstyle, fantasy or whatever their criteria and then want to maximise their chosen class and this includes myself.

    I'd love to try enhance but the reality is that covenants currently make a fundamental difference to the power of a class and Chain Harvest is the best button enhance has. If you look at most broken things in pvp right now as an example, almost all are due to covenants (Chain Harvest, The Hunt, Weapons of Order, Echoing Reprimand, Mind Games, Divine Toll, Convoke and the list goes on).

    Personally I'd like if it they made swapping coventants less punishing (and it seems a shame to punish people wanting to try out more content they've put the time into developing!) or otherwise reduce the impact of the abilities.
    re-read OP, he's not talking about "wanting to get the most out of your character", he's talking about dealing most damage he can (which would be a case for not playing a shaman in the first place). But he's not comparing his characters simmed DPS to dummy DPS he does, he's comparing damn logs. It's such a low effort post it hurts.

    Seriously, if you just stop being a "meta slave" for a second and accept the fact that your chose covenant is not that good for your offspec you'll be fine. Sim your toon, aim for doing simmed DPS, pay bitcoins to your priests for PI - done.

    Just for context - i play necrolord warrior (from launch, not because of ptr) and fay priest and i laugh about the idea of swapping covenants even faster than you do already (it's a 2 days grind for fucks sake).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Venthyr is like 1-2% behind on st, not 1k.
    it's not about being 1-2% behind in DPS, it's about guide saying that covenant is BEST for enhancement, that's why he must pick it, otherwise it's the reason why he's 1k DPS behind obviously

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    The problem is that after playing necro with ele or venthyr with enhance, the specs don't feel complete without those abilities. Chain harvest especially is just too good with 5x maelstrom as a utility spell never mind the burst aoe damage.
    chain harvest is literally a better version of chain lightning. It adds nothing but better numbers gameplay-wice, how the fuck the spec doesn't feel complete without it?
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2021-02-14 at 05:23 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Playing enhance without chain harvest is so painful, especially if you are doing mythic+. The aoe and the insane healing with 5 stacks of maelstrom is crazy. There are packs where I hold chain harvest just to have it at key times for the heal.
    This. Nothing more idiotic than be locked in to a covenant.

    I love Lore and gaming immersion but being locked in to a covenant makes me want to punch the dry wall part of my wall so I can see my rage in the wall and not a broken hand!

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