Should Trump be Impeached <again>

[Kaleredar]

I'm not arguing it hasn't diminished, I've acknowledged it has. Hell it was diminishing before the election even happened with Sasse and Cornyn going on the record being against trump. But it's still the minority of the party against him. There are still the majority willing to placate trump, and will continue to, for maybe until he dies. They will kiss the ring or face his wrath and then will face the wrath of his cult. We won't know the full effect of how powerful Trumpism will be for 2 years for the next election, until then we got 2 years the majority of republicans for, and the minority against him with many just keeping their heads low trying to avoid controversy. The good thing is Trump lost his biggest platform to communicate, rallies are not going to continue, so in theory it should diminish even more, but I guess we'll see. It certainly won't be gone.

I think the GOP is going to try and take the fifth, as it were, on Trump.

Their support, either vocal or tacit, through all of his bullshit and nonsense was a primary function of trying to further the GOPs platform. He got them the Supreme Court judge appointments they wanted. He installed conservative judges elsewhere in the country. He passed tax cuts for the ultra wealthy.

So they held out hope, despite the obvious collusion with Russia, the abandoning of American allies, and the complete failure to address Covid, that he’d retake the presidency. Obviously, that failed.

Then they held out hope once again and ignored his refusal to concede to Biden and his painting of the election as a fraud because they hoped he’d allow them to hold on to the senate with Georgia. And once again, he failed. He might actively have harmed them in that goal.

Now, trump is truly spent for them. He’s nothing but a liability. In the 2020 election he won them nothing and lost them everything, and there is really no current active goal the GOP is pursuing until 2022. So as I said I think the GOP is going to try and pretend trump never happened and “gently” fear monger trumps supporters back into supporting them while leaving trump himself in the dust.

I really doubt the GOP establishment wants him in the picture anymore; he failed them quite catastrophically in the end, and I bet they figure his supporters are easier to bring back into the fold with the same old socialist boogeyman prattle than it would be to make Trump look appealing, especially when Trump is still around.

[DingDongKing]

They’re already doing that. ‘Unity!’ Where was unity when they were all showing their fascist colours...

[Mormolyce]

To be clear, he should've been convicted in the Senate and removed from office the first time, which was bad enough - their failure to put the country before their petty partisan interests led directly to an angry mob storming the US Capitol, murdering a cop and demanding to hang Mike Pence. That'll go down as one of the greatest failures of Congressional duty in US history (and this is on top of their failure to act on Coronavirus, which has killed almost as many people as WWII).

So yeah obviously he should be impeached, and removed (and arrested, and tried for all of his crimes). The question is not so much what should happen but whether an attack on their own chamber is enough to wake up a glimmer of conscience in any Republican Senators, or if they're all spineless cowards to the end.

[Kathranis]

I'm gonna repeat my earlier sentiments, he needs to be impeached.

That is how a sitting president is held accountable for criminal acts. Even if he's out of office in eight days. Even if they can't muster enough votes to remove him or pressure a resignation. Even if the process is delayed enough to make it purely symbolic. If this wasn't worthy of impeachment, what is?

Aside from all the good reasons like blocking him from holding office in the future, taking away certain benefits he would receive as a former president, and making him go down in history as the only twice-impeached president, it is a line-in-the-sand moment for our representatives.

Forcing this issue to a vote will clearly and definitively show us, and history, where Republican Congress members stand. Whether they will hold a megalomaniacal would-be despot to account for his crimes, or continue to shrug them off and look the other way to appease his base for political gain.

Frankly, there are about a dozen Senators including Cruz, Hawley, and Brooks who should outright be expelled from Congress, too.

Even if this is all a foregone conclusion, it is still the right thing to do.

The reality is that the GOP would benefit enormously by eliminating him from the field of candidates, but Senators and Representatives in deep red states and districts are still far too spineless to put their necks out and risk alienating his base, even if they've proven to be at best unreliable and at worst a liability (see: GA runoffs). If the votes could be taken anonymously, I suspect he would be removed easily.

[Draco-Onis]

To be clear, he should've been convicted in the Senate and removed from office the first time, which was bad enough - their failure to put the country before their petty partisan interests led directly to an angry mob storming the US Capitol, murdering a cop and demanding to hang Mike Pence. That'll go down as one of the greatest failures of Congressional duty in US history (and this is on top of their failure to act on Coronavirus, which has killed almost as many people as WWII).

So yeah obviously he should be impeached, and removed (and arrested, and tried for all of his crimes). The question is not so much what should happen but whether an attack on their own chamber is enough to wake up a glimmer of conscience in any Republican Senators, or if they're all spineless cowards to the end.

Republicans will wait for the polls to find their spines. They are cowards all of them are still scared shitless of Trump.

[Logwyn]

Question is... Trump is impeached and the Senate removes him. Pence becomes President for a few days. But wait he doesn't! He just resigns. President Pelosi!

Does she keep her Congressional seat after the 20th? Do we get a new speaker?

[Belize]

Question is... Trump is impeached and the Senate removes him. Pence becomes President for a few days. But wait he doesn't! He just resigns. President Pelosi!

Does she keep her Congressional seat after the 20th? Do we get a new speaker?

Senate isn't even voting until after Biden is sworn in, so it's a moot hypothetical.

[Kathranis]

Republicans will wait for the polls to find their spines. They are cowards all of them are still scared shitless of Trump.

They're not scared of Trump, they're scared of his base. Scared of it, and scared of losing it.

Trump has already been deplatformed by social media and will not be given a voice on most mainstream media outlets now that they're not obligated to cover him, which reduces his reach dramatically. After January 6th and 7th, I would be surprised if he's allowed to organize rallies or protests ever again. Do you really think occasional calls into FOX or Newsmax are going make him some sort of shadow puppeteer or kingmaker? That's if he even has the opportunity to take up a career in punditry at all, with a landslide of debt, criminal charges, lawsuits, and heart disease about to fucking bury him.

Those were ideas that people were floating back around the election. He blew that all up.

This is categorically not about any sort of loyalty to Trump. Not anymore. He's poison, and the GOP knows it. It's just that so many representatives relied on his base to get elected. Now, I continue to question whether you can even turn them out if Trump isn't on the ballot, but that's the constituency they're now stuck with. Not only do they need their votes, breaking with them could be an actual safety hazard.

[Thekri]

Question is... Trump is impeached and the Senate removes him. Pence becomes President for a few days. But wait he doesn't! He just resigns. President Pelosi!

Does she keep her Congressional seat after the 20th? Do we get a new speaker?

The odds of having 4 US Presidents in 8 days is exactly zero.

For one thing, the chance of the Senate voting on its trial before the 20th is also zero, which prevents the first step from happening. The 25th amendment wouldn't actually make Pence president, it only makes him acting President, Trump would still be President, just unable to execute any of the powers of the office.

So the only theoretical chance of that happening is if Trump and Pence both resigned, and why on earth would they do that?

[Katchii]

Last year you couldn't get find a dozen senators that would go against trump on anything.

Now, he can only get a dozen senators to back him.

That's already a drastic change.

Will the Trump cult vanish overnight? No

But the deathgrip is gone.

While probably true, the truly horrific and terrifying thing is it doesn't matter. The people with the mentality to support him will still be around and ALL the shit they have going on that allowed them to support him will still be around. The people who voted for him are still around.

[Egomaniac]

So the only theoretical chance of that happening is if Trump and Pence both resigned, and why on earth would they do that?

Well, Trump might resign so that Pence can pardon him.

Don't have any real reason why Pence would resign though.

[Kaleredar]

Republicans will wait for the polls to find their spines. They are cowards all of them are still scared shitless of Trump.

The problem is that their party exists only by merit of a flimsy net woven of gerrymandering, lock-step politics, voter suppression and a shrinking demographic base so that they are always “waiting for the polls.”

This should be a political reckoning for the GOP internally. Assessing what they were complicit in and how they could stoop so low in support of Trump. But no; I can say with fair confidence the only thing they are currently thinking about is how to pull Trump’s cultists back into their voting base and how they’re going to make Biden’s presidency as difficult as possible, eyeing what gains they can make in 2022 and how best to obstruct and blame the democrats until then.

[Egomaniac]

While probably true, the truly horrific and terrifying thing is it doesn't matter. The people with the mentality to support him will still be around and ALL the shit they have going on that allowed them to support him will still be around. The people who voted for him are still around.

Well, it does matter though

They still exist...but are they still Republicans? Will they support the next Republican Presidential Candidate as ardently as they supported Trump?

[Thekri]

They're not scared of Trump, they're scared of his base. Scared of it, and scared of losing it.

Trump has already been deplatformed by social media and will not be given a voice on most mainstream media outlets now that they're not obligated to cover him, which reduces his reach dramatically. After January 6th and 7th, I would be surprised if he's allowed to organize rallies or protests ever again. Do you really think occasional calls into FOX or Newsmax are going make him some sort of shadow puppeteer or kingmaker? That's if he even has the opportunity to take up a career in punditry at all, with a landslide of debt, criminal charges, lawsuits, and heart disease about to fucking bury him.

Those were ideas that people were floating back around the election. He blew that all up.

This is categorically not about any sort of loyalty to Trump. Not anymore. He's poison, and the GOP knows it. It's just that so many representatives relied on his base to get elected. Now, I continue to question whether you can even turn them out if Trump isn't on the ballot, but that's the constituency they're now stuck with. Not only do they need their votes, breaking with them could be an actual safety hazard.

At some point they have to start realizing that keeping it isn't worth it, they aren't winning. Losing both Georgia Senate races probably hurt Trump worse then the insurrection in the Capital did, because it proves that Trumpsters can't even hold the Southern States. Keep in mind, Cornyn ran more then 2 percentage points ahead of Trump in Texas. This are the sort of warning signs that are hard to ignore. Georgia slipped away from them this cycle, and they are going to have to fight like hell to get it back, because the demographics are shifting away from them. Texas is flashing giant warning signs that they could lose it in the next decade or so.

The Party of Trump is NOT helping this situation in the South. It is costing them votes where they need it most. It is costing them suburbs, it is putting them so far behind in cities that the rural areas can't make up the difference. The problem for the GOP is that Trump did the least helpful thing possible for them, he didn't expand their voters, he just radicalized some that were already voting Republican.

The GOP has been getting slapped in the polls since 2016. They are losing special elections, including in Alabama and Georgia. They are fighting for "Safe" seats, and losing anything they took in 2016 and 2014. So they are in a tough place, if lose Trump supporters, their party implodes. If they keep Trump supporters, they die a slow and continuous death, with no real hope of turning anything around. They are desperately looking for a way out of this deal they signed with the devil.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I'm gonna repeat my earlier sentiments, he needs to be impeached.

That is how a sitting president is held accountable for criminal acts. Even if he's out of office in eight days. Even if they can't muster enough votes to remove him or pressure a resignation. Even if the process is delayed enough to make it purely symbolic. If this wasn't worthy of impeachment, what is?

Aside from all the good reasons like blocking him from holding office in the future, taking away certain benefits he would receive as a former president, and making him go down in history as the only twice-impeached president, it is a line-in-the-sand moment for our representatives.

Forcing this issue to a vote will clearly and definitively show us, and history, where Republican Congress members stand. Whether they will hold a megalomaniacal would-be despot to account for his crimes, or continue to shrug them off and look the other way to appease his base for political gain.

Frankly, there are about a dozen Senators including Cruz, Hawley, and Brooks who should outright be expelled from Congress, too.

Even if this is all a foregone conclusion, it is still the right thing to do.

The reality is that the GOP would benefit enormously by eliminating him from the field of candidates, but Senators and Representatives in deep red states and districts are still far too spineless to put their necks out and risk alienating his base, even if they've proven to be at best unreliable and at worst a liability (see: GA runoffs). If the votes could be taken anonymously, I suspect he would be removed easily.

This is the raw take on things really, and I don't disagree, I think the issue is going to be that on some level there is going to have to be a path forward. This isn't about free speech, this isn't about freedom of expression this is about motherfuckers that literally tried to tear down the very fabric of our country in the name of TRUMP.

We KNOW that we can prove that because those that attack the U.S Capitol raised his flag. There is no way to say you are a Trump supporter and not contend with with that, you also can't what about out of this.

This wasn't about police murdering citizens and nobody in the Protest were marching with Biden Flags either. So this isn't even strictly about association.

This is not about speech that hurts peoples fucking feelings and never has, this is about certain people feeling they are entitled and endowed with privilege they don't feel that should have to give up, like the privilege to say who is going to be President even after Trump LOST fairly.

[Katchii]

Well, it does matter though

They still exist...but are they still Republicans? Will they support the next Republican Presidential Candidate as ardently as they supported Trump?

My opinion on that is it doesn't matter. Those people have shown they're absolutely biased, bigoted, prejudiced, gullible, stupid, toxic and dangerous. I don't care what side they're on. While I wouldn't necessarily complain if they voted for the "better" candidate, I don't ever want to consider them to be on the same side as me. Because they're not. They're on whichever side brainwashes them first. "My" side requires people to be able to think for themselves, take science and experts in their fields seriously, ignore what I call bathroom researchers with an opinion and completely disregard QAnon and other bullshit conspiracy theories for what they are. I don't care if they're Democrat, Republican, or whatever because there are, and have always been, decent candidates on all sides. The problem is apparently only the most radical, polarizing candidates are "good" enough to end up the party candidate for President.

The fact that these people are still able to vote and therefore HEAVILY influence any and all future elections is horrifying to me. Not because I think they're going to vote for the "wrong" candidate, but because they are too stupid (or whatever you want to call it) to vote for THEIR candidate and will instead vote for whichever candidate brainwashes them.

[Egomaniac]

My opinion on that is it doesn't matter. Those people have shown they're absolutely biased, bigoted, prejudiced, gullible, stupid, toxic and dangerous. I don't care what side they're on. While I wouldn't necessarily complain if they voted for the "better" candidate, I don't ever want to consider them to be on the same side as me. Because they're not. They're on whichever side brainwashes them first. "My" side requires people to be able to think for themselves, take science and experts in their fields seriously, ignore what I call bathroom researchers with an opinion and completely disregard QAnon and other bullshit conspiracy theories for what they are. I don't care if they're Democrat, Republican, or whatever because there are, and have always been, decent candidates on all sides. The problem is apparently only the most radical, polarizing candidates are "good" enough to end up the party candidate for President.

The fact that these people are still able to vote and therefore HEAVILY influence any and all future elections is horrifying to me. Not because I think they're going to vote for the "wrong" candidate, but because they are too stupid (or whatever you want to call it) to vote for THEIR candidate and will instead vote for whichever candidate brainwashes them.

Well, I can't say I disagree with you on any particular point. I wouldn't want these people on my side either.

What I will say is that Trump didn't make these people that way. They were always like that. There have always been people like that. Just out there waiting for someone to tell them all the things they wanted to hear... even if they didn't know they wanted to hear it.

[Kathranis]

They are desperately looking for a way out of this deal they signed with the devil.

They have it. The Democrats are handing it to them on a platter. There's just no honor amongst thieves and too many Republicans are unwilling to risk their careers for the sake of the Party.

25th Amendment would be easiest, they'd just need Pence and some of his cabinet to get on board. Pence has already broken with Trump and his base -- they were calling for his fucking execution during the siege. His cabinet members are basically finished politically after this, and most of Trump's base doesn't even know who they are or what they do. For whatever reason, they seem to think sticking with him would be advantageous.

In the House and Senate there is a lot more granularity in the constituency. Breaking with Trump in a deep red district could be political suicide for some representatives.

It might be that in waiting until after the inauguration to actually vote on barring him from holding office, they hope to take the spotlight off themselves so they can quietly stab him in the back without his base noticing. Right wing pundits will rapidly move on to criticizing the Biden administration and Trump will be old news. There's also the very real possibility that further violence this week could erode support for Trump enough for them to stop hedging.

Ironically, Twitter banning Trump was almost certainly a lifeline for him. There's no doubt in my mind that unfettered access to Twitter would have only resulted in him punching even more holes in the hull of his rapidly sinking ship.

[Egomaniac]

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...-from-the-gop/

Sen. Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, has told associates that he believes President Donald Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party, according to people familiar with his thinking. The House is voting Wednesday to formally charge Trump with inciting violence against the country.

Pretty huge if true.

[TigTone]

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...-from-the-gop/



Pretty huge if true.

Feels like a trap for Democrats. A feeling based on knowing Mitch untrustworthy.