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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    You are right, they are broken

    Killing players in a blink of an eye because of high burst. If anything they need a nerf (Together with Palaidn and Druid)
    I do not know how you assume that I am talking about players when I say PvE

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    You are right, they are broken

    Killing players in a blink of an eye because of high burst. If anything they need a nerf (Together with Palaidn and Druid)
    That happens only in low rating arenas where people have >1000ms or have like 2-3 seconds time of reaction.
    Warriors are still kings of melee in high rated arenas.
    WW Monks(along with Arms) are more popular than rogues in 2v2.
    Last edited by Eazy; 2021-01-10 at 01:02 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumile View Post
    the one where rogues are trash in every regard.

    Rogues genuinly suck at pvp, literally the only rogues in top 50 on both EU and NA are Blizzcon contenders. meanwhile we have people like Quin up there on his paladin now keep in mind Rogues are one of the most popular pvp classes in the game, so when their representation isnt great, it really speaks volumes, unlike DK's who only have 1 in the top 50 on both NA and EU, but he is also rank 1, just not a particularly popular class in the high end.

    Does this mean they are unplayable? evidently not, but when people like Whaaz literally drop their rogue to go and play a warrior and a monk, theres usually a reason for it.

    PvE this is the first time rogues are underperforming, like ever. they bring very limited utility unlike classes like Ret, or DK's with Bops, Freedoms, and Anti magic zones, which are all pretty fucking huge, and they dont bring a battle shout, or 5% phys damage like monks.

    then theres the gearing situation, if you want to play a rogue right now u want to be Sub for PVP and for Single target, Outlaw for cleave and M+. their gear is not compatible. they want different everything. which is incredibly aids in Shadow lands particularly with its weekly gated bullshit. Weapons? no problem im 2.4k rated, sadly i have to wait 2 weeks for every weapon I want, and it also means giving up on other items, so Ive just gone casual, afking till ive gotten all my weekly shit to play both speccs, so i can actually play the damn game.

    Im not even a rogue player, only picked rogue cuz I considered it a safe pick, what a joke. in general the balancing of this expac is atrocious, casters already topping meters left right and center in the first raid tier while scaling better than all melees? poggers...

    also rogue scaling is literally trash compared to every other class in the game atm.

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    ?? do you have a point or did u just throw some random sentence out there? or was it supposed to mean that rogues are fine? cuz that is not how you do statistics, if anything you should be comparing the percentage representation in comparison to previous raid tiers, and even that would be a weak argument.

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    S tier according to who, and in what content?

    They are most certainly not S tier when none are brought by any top guilds. thats some wack shit to say. if you're on about M+ then yes, right now they are taken over stuff like Monks because of Mind numbing poison, and Shroud, but since rogue scaling is trash compared to for example monks, they are most likely gonna phase out. its already happening, every top key had a rogue early on, and every day the representation of yellows in top keys is dropping.

    In PVP? they are C tier at best atm, only reason rogues are even C tier is because their setup is still perfect for Fire mages, and fire mages are busted. if mages were nerfed rogues would become irrelevant completely in PVP. literally every top rogue agrees they are in a super bad spot atm, Whaaz, Pika etc.

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    thats why i picked rogue for this expansion, what a meme that was. if you dont think they are in a bad spot then you're either clueless or delusional. So much for my safe pick.

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    you obviously know fuck all about rogue, theres a multitude of issues with what u just said, Sub can ONLY single target, and bring 0 raid utility atm, while doing dog shit ST Dps considering it is literally all it can do.

    which means u need gear for both Outlaw and Sub, sadly SL is weekly gated as fuck so getting both is gonna take months.

    and they both still suck in pvp lel, facerolling my 190 ilvl boomkin on higher rating than my rogue atm, its such a meme, literally only able to play RMP, and granted, dont have any "good mages" to play with but not like the mage has to know how to play in RMP. cant even stay above 2.4k as Thug, and RPS is genuinly just a meme at the effort and difficulty to make it work while i just randomly convoke my way to 2.6k on my zero gear boomy omegalul
    So you are basing pvp performance on what a few youtube glads tell you, and going for a total pulling out of your ass for pve then? I guess all those rogues parsing top 100 on fights don't exist, you can also get back to me when raider.io isn't a sea of yellow too. I guess not dealing in feelycraft counts as deluded these days. Blows my mind how rogues magically become dogshit because of a few absolutely trivial nerfs, the forum post spam when the echoing reprimand CONDUIT nerf comes to mind. #justroguethings

  4. #44
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proper Ninja View Post
    the class is officially unsupported now. what ever fun you can derive from the remains of sub or any spec is now in your court. just don't get mad when blizzard decides to nerf your class again.
    As if hyperbolic, useless nonsense like this helps in any way.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by notthebees View Post
    So you are basing pvp performance on what a few youtube glads tell you, and going for a total pulling out of your ass for pve then? I guess all those rogues parsing top 100 on fights don't exist, you can also get back to me when raider.io isn't a sea of yellow too. I guess not dealing in feelycraft counts as deluded these days. Blows my mind how rogues magically become dogshit because of a few absolutely trivial nerfs, the forum post spam when the echoing reprimand CONDUIT nerf comes to mind. #justroguethings
    The nerfs were not "trivial" echoing reprimand WAS the burst and its damage was reduced something like 75%.

    The only people still complaining about sub rogues are dogshit 1400 players.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by notthebees View Post
    So you are basing pvp performance on what a few youtube glads tell you, and going for a total pulling out of your ass for pve then? I guess all those rogues parsing top 100 on fights don't exist, you can also get back to me when raider.io isn't a sea of yellow too. I guess not dealing in feelycraft counts as deluded these days. Blows my mind how rogues magically become dogshit because of a few absolutely trivial nerfs, the forum post spam when the echoing reprimand CONDUIT nerf comes to mind. #justroguethings
    Exactly where did you get any of that? my pvp performance is based on experience. unlike your 1600 hard stuck ass I already mentioned the ratings ive gotten, while not being a rogue main previously except for MoP, i detest boomkin, I never play it, just memed around on it, left stealth, pressed convoke, 2.6k while im a 2.4k hardstuck andy on my rogue, and cant even play with my friends at that rating because the only comp that works is RMP.

    Looking at top 100 on logs in this expansion is the most memey thing ive heard, are you daft? we have Kyrian empowerments and Power infusions coming out of the ass as well as the most dumb ass fights for logs since forever, RNG mechanics that depict who gets to log and who doesnt, oh you RANDOMLY got targeted by the portal on artificer? good bye logs, targeted by ghosts? good bye log, Crash on Stone legion? cya logs, linked to the retard of ur raid grp? bye bye, list goes on.

    1 Rogue on top 100 Shriekwing
    0 huntsman
    3 Hungering
    2 Sun King
    6 Artificer
    3 Inerva
    0 Council (99 boomkins 1 warlock)
    0 Sludgefist
    3 Stone Legion
    4 Denathrius

    What part of that looks great to you? and if you had even bothered to consider why they are there it would look even worse, but I wont stress you out like that. (all outlaw lul)
    atleast check before you speak? and atleast think?? Outlaw has the biggest dps error margin on sims for a reasons, roll the bones is a meme. the dps disparity between simmed parses is the largest so obviously its not gonna be impossible for a few to sneak into top 100 on a few fights.

    Already adressed Raider.IO - have a look we have the same overall representation as Warlocks, and 6 rogues in the top 20 keys now. not sure how that is a "a Sea of yellows" but just keep making shit up I guess, ironic that you're the one throwing around the term "Feelycraft"

    get a grip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    Why rest in peace? what did i miss? Dps wise is top 10 with a small difference in power between 10-4 damage wise, except the obvious Balance/Unholy/MM, so number wise it's in a good spot, really high chance it will not get nerf, i can't touch pvp wise but I assume rogue is rogue, I sincerely don't see what is the problem

    I feel a lot of people here are heavily overestimating the level they are playing at
    we're sadly not really top 10, ontop of that lets say we were top 10, top 10 as a melee is a dead class. when you're a tripple DPS class, and a melee that brings 0 utility (no shout, 5% phys or magical dmg, Gates, Healthstones, Darkness, Anti Magic zone, Bop, Freedom, Bubble, Sunbeam, Knockbacks, Grips, Aoe grips, etc list goes on)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodemonkee View Post
    LOL are you serious? Based on logs is not how you do statistics when this is the only base? Tell me, how do you do statistics then?
    already said, maybe try and read? using tiny sample sizes does not make for valid statistics. a single statistical number is a useless stat, these are the reason why you need to do as i said in my original post, at the very least, still not a reliable metric as it doesnt have 3 convergence points even, but its getting close atleast.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumile View Post
    already said, maybe try and read? using tiny sample sizes does not make for valid statistics. a single statistical number is a useless stat, these are the reason why you need to do as i said in my original post, at the very least, still not a reliable metric as it doesnt have 3 convergence points even, but its getting close atleast.
    I do see your point of view but I don't agree with it,i mean, you are thinking from a meta point of view, follow this logic all DPS should be booking/dk, you might play at a level where rogue doesn't have a spot BUT you can't deny the fact that 99% of community don't play at that level

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Sub is still pretty above average and outlaw is S tier.

    What are you on about?

    In fact, the last 3 expansion rogues always had one spec in S tier in every single patch.
    What expansion are you playing? Its definitely not shadowlands 9.0.2

    Outlaw rog being S tier? More like B+ tier, sub rogue isnt even average and assa being almost worst spec in the game. There is only 1 melee spec, that is in a worse place then rog. Its enha sham. Every other melee spec beats rog in PvE and even brings raid buff to the party...

    Lets look on warcraftlogs, Sludgefist mythic. There are 24 sub and 5 outlaw parses on kill. Thats total 29 rogues who killed Sludgefist. Thats by far the lowest number, second class is DK with 69 parses, still more then double

    And thats a fight where you dont need to bring anything but dps...
    Last edited by Aureli; 2021-01-11 at 04:57 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    The nerfs were not "trivial" echoing reprimand WAS the burst and its damage was reduced something like 75%.

    The only people still complaining about sub rogues are dogshit 1400 players.
    Well it's a good thing that via reading comprehension it could be understood by anyone that I was merely pointing out that the sky is in fact not falling, and sub is still viable in pve and pvp. And yes, not being able to kill someone in cheap doesn't magically make sub bad.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    Why rest in peace? what did i miss? Dps wise is top 10 with a small difference in power between 10-4 damage wise, except the obvious Balance/Unholy/MM, so number wise it's in a good spot, really high chance it will not get nerf, i can't touch pvp wise but I assume rogue is rogue, I sincerely don't see what is the problem

    I feel a lot of people here are heavily overestimating the level they are playing at
    Because if a class isn't the #1 performer in all things in all situations, the class is dead according to people like the OP.

    Meanwhile good players ignore the whiners and make their classes work. There are, for example, players who are amazing at feral and do great dps despite the general consensus that feral is "broken" or whatever.

    People say "oh destro and afflic out perform demonology" and yet the best lock I know is Demo.

    Not saying rogues or other lower performing classes don't need buffs but for god sake the OP is being melodramatic.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumile View Post
    Exactly where did you get any of that? my pvp performance is based on experience. unlike your 1600 hard stuck ass I already mentioned the ratings ive gotten, while not being a rogue main previously except for MoP, i detest boomkin, I never play it, just memed around on it, left stealth, pressed convoke, 2.6k while im a 2.4k hardstuck andy on my rogue, and cant even play with my friends at that rating because the only comp that works is RMP.

    Looking at top 100 on logs in this expansion is the most memey thing ive heard, are you daft? we have Kyrian empowerments and Power infusions coming out of the ass as well as the most dumb ass fights for logs since forever, RNG mechanics that depict who gets to log and who doesnt, oh you RANDOMLY got targeted by the portal on artificer? good bye logs, targeted by ghosts? good bye log, Crash on Stone legion? cya logs, linked to the retard of ur raid grp? bye bye, list goes on.

    1 Rogue on top 100 Shriekwing
    0 huntsman
    3 Hungering
    2 Sun King
    6 Artificer
    3 Inerva
    0 Council (99 boomkins 1 warlock)
    0 Sludgefist
    3 Stone Legion
    4 Denathrius

    What part of that looks great to you? and if you had even bothered to consider why they are there it would look even worse, but I wont stress you out like that. (all outlaw lul)
    atleast check before you speak? and atleast think?? Outlaw has the biggest dps error margin on sims for a reasons, roll the bones is a meme. the dps disparity between simmed parses is the largest so obviously its not gonna be impossible for a few to sneak into top 100 on a few fights.

    Already adressed Raider.IO - have a look we have the same overall representation as Warlocks, and 6 rogues in the top 20 keys now. not sure how that is a "a Sea of yellows" but just keep making shit up I guess, ironic that you're the one throwing around the term "Feelycraft"

    get a grip.

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    we're sadly not really top 10, ontop of that lets say we were top 10, top 10 as a melee is a dead class. when you're a tripple DPS class, and a melee that brings 0 utility (no shout, 5% phys or magical dmg, Gates, Healthstones, Darkness, Anti Magic zone, Bop, Freedom, Bubble, Sunbeam, Knockbacks, Grips, Aoe grips, etc list goes on)

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    already said, maybe try and read? using tiny sample sizes does not make for valid statistics. a single statistical number is a useless stat, these are the reason why you need to do as i said in my original post, at the very least, still not a reliable metric as it doesnt have 3 convergence points even, but its getting close atleast.
    Ah yes, you and the "I'm high rated, trust me bro no armory", I seen that schtick. Speaking of high level play, it fascinates me how at 2600 people aren't just sneezing at your convoke to stop it, I guess all those glad xp players just don't do what even "hardstuck 1600 players" do to stop it, nice generic logical fallacy by the way, really addressed it with the cr assumption. As for top 100s, the fact I am getting at is, you are acting like your class is total dogshit, when it really isn't. The sky is not falling, rogues will remain viable like every season and tier. Funny you say mained rogue in mop too, that's probably one of the worst xpacs rogues had pvpwise, ironically, rmp was what made that class work then.

  12. #52
    Checking warcraft logs for the raid at 95th percentile, one rogue spec is only beat by WW and Unholy DK. This is over the past 2 weeks. Not sure what "dead" means to you, but I see that as being very alive . At least for raiding!

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlz0rz View Post
    Checking warcraft logs for the raid at 95th percentile, one rogue spec is only beat by WW and Unholy DK. This is over the past 2 weeks. Not sure what "dead" means to you, but I see that as being very alive . At least for raiding!
    Why people who know shit about raiding and its current state keep commenting? Rog is by far the weakest raiding class atm.

    There is no good reason to bring rog to the table... Other then its your good friend who know how to play and doesnt have any other class on max lvl. If he does, atm he is probably not raiding as rog anymore.

  14. #54
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    you cried and got buffed congrats

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Dessicuus View Post
    I feel like you guys are arguing about the wrong thing. Outlaw damage is fine, and therefore the rogue class is fine at the moment. The REAL problem for rogue right now isn't damage, it's every other melee bringing a buff or AMZ to the raid, while rogue still only brings damage. Half the problem right now is why bring a rogue when you can stack DKs and have 4 AMZ and more dps. The literal issue for Rogue is it's the only melee that brings nothing that can't be achieved with the more meta hunter.
    And I’m sure you were here upset in raids past when rogues were stacked due to immunity and soaking requirements right?

    Also what buff does feral or survival bring?
    Last edited by Argorwal; 2021-01-12 at 12:59 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Virothe View Post
    Funny logic when I hear no one talking about how bad enhance shamans are, but a tirade about the class doing the biggest numbers.... almost like all you all are hypocritical bitches
    So the first time since, what TBC, that shamans are peeling your shit you want to call people hypocritical bitches? Outside the bs gear from the last expansion and not being able to balance shit during that expansion I can't remember a time recently, shamans of any spec being overpowered. Sure there might be an instance here or there or a one shot vid here and there but nothing consistent. LOL, and for the record if you read the above post you linked I am fine with changes to rogues. I actually stated that.

    #bringback2henhance #forthetears/salt
    Last edited by InflaterMouse; 2021-01-12 at 01:03 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Aureli View Post
    Why people who know shit about raiding and its current state keep commenting? Rog is by far the weakest raiding class atm.

    There is no good reason to bring rog to the table... Other then its your good friend who know how to play and doesnt have any other class on max lvl. If he does, atm he is probably not raiding as rog anymore.
    One rogue spec does decent damage. That's probably good enough for a lot of mythic raids out there!
    You know you don't have to fill your raid up with only beneficial classes, right? Take enha for example. They bring some utility, but get dwarfed by rogue DPS. Can you not argue that you don't NEED that ultility, but could use that DPS?

    It's so strange that you see no reason to bring a rogue, yet there are tens of thousands of parses with rogue... And yes, they kill the bosses .

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    And I’m sure you were here upset in raids past when rogues were stacked due to immunity and soaking requirements right?

    Also what buff does feral or survival bring?
    So your argument is since other things are or have been broken, nobody can talk about current problems for their class? I wasn't a rogue back then, so no I wasn't on this forum about it. But you should have been, since you saw it as a problem. Because wow has many problems, and devs need to hear about these problems to prevent them in the future.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlz0rz View Post
    One rogue spec does decent damage. That's probably good enough for a lot of mythic raids out there!
    You know you don't have to fill your raid up with only beneficial classes, right? Take enha for example. They bring some utility, but get dwarfed by rogue DPS. Can you not argue that you don't NEED that ultility, but could use that DPS?

    It's so strange that you see no reason to bring a rogue, yet there are tens of thousands of parses with rogue... And yes, they kill the bosses .
    Do you even raid? Did you clear atleast hc?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xjan View Post
    Interesting. Blizzard generally doesn't stop supporting products they're still selling.
    I still see HoTS advertisements yet they don't support that game

    Seriously, try putting in a ticket, they won't let you and instead tell you to post on the tech support forum where your thread is instantly dead on arrival it's hilarious

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