View Poll Results: Do you prefer Sylvanas or Garrosh? Who is more popular?

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  • I prefer Sylvanas

    42 26.25%
  • I prefer Garrosh

    90 56.25%
  • Other / Not sure / I prefer neither of them

    28 17.50%
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  1. #21
    Let's see the pros and cons of each character.

    Garrosh's Pros
    1)His plan was straight forward.
    2)He fought and challenged whoever he wanted personally and not sending others.
    3)Created an impressive War Machine with very few resources(though Blizzard butchered every number,lore and logistics so he could manage that).
    4)He has some shred of honor.

    Garrosh's Cons
    1)He hated a faction by the time he came to Azeroth despite not knowing a quarter of the story behind Azeroth.
    2)He tried so hard to match his father's image knowing not the negative part of Grom's story.
    3)He commited crimes against various neutral factions to obtain Superweapons that could end Azeroth and in a normal story that would have activated these factions against him.
    4)As Varodoc said he was a fool trying to play with powers he could not comprehend (Ysaarj's Heart, the Blank Scroll)
    5)He has taken stupid decisions using events to gain an advantage(Broken Front,Cataclysm) not realising the real danger(Deathwing,Arthas) or setting up events that would eventually speed up the arrival of the Legion to Azeroth.

    Sylvannas Pros
    1)Not sure if that is a pro but she has plans after plans after plans that cannot be explained.
    2)Gained a power buff out of Metzen's Ass and might be a demigod level(Though beating an old orc and a pathetic version of the Lich King doesn't justify her hype)
    3)She might have something left of the Old Sylvannas buried deep beneath the rot.

    Sylvannas Cons
    1)She wants absolute control like a Lich King.
    2)Her Free Will was a lie after all.
    3)She is naive thinking she is equal to the Jailer and not just a pawn ready to be discarded when not needed.
    4)She created a War that she lost quickly just to kill as many and gain power.
    5)She never explained her plan from the start.
    6)Acts like Edgy Teenager when she hears the word Hope.
    7As Varodoc said she is a fool trying to control Death just because she was salty she was sent to the Maw and for that she will bring Azeroth to ruins. Her Death Issues make her pathetic.

    In my opinion Garrosh was the better person between the two but I would prefer neither of them. They are both responsible for the worst written stories in Warcraft, put Azeroth in danger with their issues and responsible for toxicity they caused in forums.

  2. #22
    They don't need redemption, they need a capital city with their name. Like Orgrim Doomhammer.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Ouch man, that was stingy. Wish I could upvote this post, but something tells me that Blizz will never allow Alleria gurl to go off the deep end, Kael or Garrosh style. She's Alliance after all, and we all know that Alliance can do no wrong (and even if they do, it doesn’t matter because the narrative simply shrugs it off).
    That's probably the only thing that'll really stop her character from being written in that direction. The fact that she's Alliance.

    That said, if ever the writers do go for that twist (and by twist, I mean rehashing that story outline for the Nth time, but on the Alliance instead of Horde), I think Alleria is a pretty good contender.

    After all, she's just a silly arrogant mortal who thinks she's in control of a cosmic force.

  4. #24
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
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    @Darth-Piekus it's almost as if Sylv has all of Garry's flaws cranked up to 11, while having none of his qualities. And Danuser had the gall to talk about Nuance™
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  5. #25
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    They are both whackjobs

    But at least Garrosh was always this aggresive dick that romantized the idea of orcish superiority and martial discipline and his original goal of trying to make the Horde strong can be somewhat empathyzed with


    Sylvanas should've died at wotlk. Her character is a complete trainwreck. They have even retconned what she says in an inner monologue
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  6. #26
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    Garrosh's Cons
    1)He hated a faction by the time he came to Azeroth despite not knowing a quarter of the story behind Azeroth.
    2)He tried so hard to match his father's image knowing not the negative part of Grom's story.
    3)He commited crimes against various neutral factions to obtain Superweapons that could end Azeroth and in a normal story that would have activated these factions against him.
    4)As Varodoc said he was a fool trying to play with powers he could not comprehend (Ysaarj's Heart, the Blank Scroll)
    5)He has taken stupid decisions using events to gain an advantage(Broken Front,Cataclysm) not realising the real danger(Deathwing,Arthas) or setting up events that would eventually speed up the arrival of the Legion to Azeroth..
    1) it is explained why he hated the alliance in his shortstory, makes sense for him.
    5) i would not call that much stupid if worked, i think those kind of things made the world a bit more real.

    As for the heart, that never made sense to me, is him corrupting his people like his father but purple instead of Green, never made sense to me.

    Plus, Garrosh started neutral with the horde races and positive with others like tauren, he was always the kind of guy of "respect must be earned" and didn't give damn about race but the commitment. I don't think he will redeemed, blizz lready made clear that he is from the toxic male brigate and should be canceled, but he sure should be, since apparently in others timelines he was a hero and only this one he fucked up.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Sylvanas is what she is because Danuser can't get over the emotional tragedy that it's just pixels.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  8. #28
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Never thought I'd say this, but I prefer Garrosh. Even at the height of his hubris, when he was at his absolute worst as a villain, when Y'shaarj's heart drove him mad with power and delusions of grandeur, he still had the orcs' best interest at heart. He still ultimately cared about more than JUST himself even if his ego wouldn't let him say it out loud. His character progression is an observable arc from classical antihero, to Byronic antihero, then Cataclysm began his hero's journey to villain. He has, taking into account the usual alignment/personality yo-yo being a Warcraft character implicitly comes with, an actual character arc with internally-consistent motives and behaviors.

    Sylvanas has none of the above. Even before retcons began piling up, the RTS portrayed her as petty and vindictive, more focused on settling grudges than with advancing her agenda. Since then, retcons have jerked her character and motives around left and right, with the only consistent being that she's still petty and vindictive, and since Cataclysm, that she's the only person she cares about. Since Cataclysm, her characterization can best be summed up as an angsty middle-class teenage girl screaming, "IT'S NOT A PHASE, DAD!" That's what makes the new Torghast cutscene so laughable--not only did they fail to make her sympathetic (for the same reasons making Saurfang suddenly sad despite having had no problems with the Horde's direction up until the writers needed him to be sad) but they also hammered home that Sylvanas is little more than a self-absorbed, whiny teenager at heart. Nothing matters but what hurts her feelings, and she'll send an entire multiverse to hell in the mother of all temper tantrums to get her way.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    They don't need redemption, they need a capital city with their name. Like Orgrim Doomhammer.
    And Orgrimmar needs a mana-bomb or tsunami but we are not getting that so neither will you have your genocidal barbie or overcompensating jock with daddy issues glorified.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    Sylvanas is what she is because Danuser can't get over the emotional tragedy that it's just pixels.
    The sheer state of blizz - when someone is too horny to stop ruining the franchise.

  10. #30
    Garrosh. His story and fall from grace is more coherent (aside of a pretty abrupt "villan mode acceleration" between Cata and Pandaria) and fits Warcraft lore way better. His arc is about the New Horde as a whole, and what makes it different from the OG, Wacraft I-esque Horde that wanted conquest above all else, being cool with causing genocide and using dark magic to achieve their goals. Garrosh has a simple arc, and makes a mistake of wanting to go back to the "good old times" despite never having a chance of knowing what that means. In a way it's something that's very easy to empathize with.

    Sylvanas story is, well, anything but that. Her arc is full of multilayered plans that contain a "to be continued" after every patch. Instead of smaller, Azerothian conflicts it explodes into multiversal scale with her trying to bend primordial cosmic forces to her will. She's less of a Warcraft character now and more of a Final Fantasy villain, like Ultimecia or something, with classic anime-esque motivations of "the world is suffering and death is the only escape". While I do like Shadowlands as an expansion, it's the first one that feels like it has nothing to do with Warcraft, and instead deals with some weird forces tied exclusively to Sylvanas herself.

    Plus her BfA arc, instead of solidifying the definition of the New Horde like Garroshes arc did, completly neuters the faction, leaving the conflict in a bizarre state. Constant Alliance-Horde cooperation is normal now, but at the same time player is supposed to be rewarded for killing enemy faction left, right and center?

  11. #31
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Garrosh, by thousands of miles. They made his crimes about his own faction, rather than the entirety of The Horde. I Miss Pandaria.
    Liberté, égalité, fraternité
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    Current count of Full/High pop WoW servers: 85 in EU alone. That's an increase from the last count.

  12. #32
    Garrosh, hate the Horde storyline since SoO. Boring and lost all its faction pride and identity.

  13. #33
    I prefer Garrosh as he existed in the past but that is pretty much meaningless as the current writing team would easily find a way to make him just as bad as BfA/Shadowlands Sylvanas if they decided to bring him back.

    Of course he'd still be a more interesting character because he had motivations and plans that went beyond "let's kill everyone to break the wheel () in hell" and his fall to evil was actually set up over the course of several years/expansions instead of being retroactively injected into the canon.

  14. #34
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Garrosh all the way. Daddy issues aside, Garry's dilemma was quite clear, i.e. the remarkable differences between his highly idealised Old Horde, composed almost exclusively by Orcs and two or three token Ogres; and the New Horde he took command of, where Orcs weren't but a minority, influential as it may have been.

    As it often happens to these "make America the Horde great again" types, he found that reality wasn't going to change just because he wanted to, and soon he found himself being everyone's antagonist - at least among non-Orcs. His lack of internal discipline or political sense did the rest, and thus he ended up in chains.

    Compared to Garry, Suevanas is like a poor copy made by a 9 years old, and not a particularly talented one.
    I have no love for Sylvanas at all...but the one thing I wouldn't call her is a Sue. Sue's are written to be practically perfect and can do no wrong no matter what...it took Sylvanas years and many masters in her selfish pursuit of power to get where she is today.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    I have no love for Sylvanas at all...but the one thing I wouldn't call her is a Sue. Sue's are written to be practically perfect and can do no wrong no matter what...it took Sylvanas years and many masters in her selfish pursuit of power to get where she is today.
    Except most of the powers she used in BfA are not a consequence of her actions/struggles and so on but merely granted to her by an entity that was injected retroactively into her story. It's really stupid since she could have accomplished pretty much the same thing without some retarded powerup by a bad guy that didn't even exist in the lore back when most of her story was written.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    1) it is explained why he hated the alliance in his shortstory, makes sense for him.
    5) i would not call that much stupid if worked, i think those kind of things made the world a bit more real.

    As for the heart, that never made sense to me, is him corrupting his people like his father but purple instead of Green, never made sense to me.

    Plus, Garrosh started neutral with the horde races and positive with others like tauren, he was always the kind of guy of "respect must be earned" and didn't give damn about race but the commitment. I don't think he will redeemed, blizz lready made clear that he is from the toxic male brigate and should be canceled, but he sure should be, since apparently in others timelines he was a hero and only this one he fucked up.
    The problem is that he knows nothing about what happened in Azeroth about the first and second wars. It is also Thrall's fault for choosing this location for Orgrimmar but even with this location he had the sea next to him, the river next to him. There are a million ways in Azeroth with magic to do wonders even in a desert. Garrosh chose the easy way.

    As for number 5 I am mostly talking about decisions which could have ended with the Death of Azeroth. Hitting the Alliance from behind on the Broken Front when they were fighting the Scourge costed both of them their lives. Sending his defence aeroplanes after that Alliance fleet in the Highlands resulted to him losing everything there and he was lucky he survived the fall. The Heart would have ended Azeroth. In general he did not think of consequences before taking actions.

    I will agree though that Garrosh was way better than Sylvannas. His goal was straightforward and he never feared to do voice his opinion and challenge anyone personally unlike some Dark Lady sending her lackeys to abduct the World Leaders because she was too weak to do that herself.

  17. #37
    Nazi or nazi with tits?
    Heck if you gotta choose a badly written hell it may as well have mammaries, at least something...

  18. #38
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    I have no love for Sylvanas at all...but the one thing I wouldn't call her is a Sue. Sue's are written to be practically perfect and can do no wrong no matter what...it took Sylvanas years and many masters in her selfish pursuit of power to get where she is today.
    Just two words: Villain Sue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  19. #39
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    The problem is that he knows nothing about what happened in Azeroth about the first and second wars. It is also Thrall's fault for choosing this location for Orgrimmar but even with this location he had the sea next to him, the river next to him. There are a million ways in Azeroth with magic to do wonders even in a desert. Garrosh chose the easy way.
    he knows what he has being told, but when he come here, he saw his people in famine, dying by a war he don't understand why still exist.

    Lets be real, apart from war and combat Garrosh is not that bright, he don't see why the alliance keep hunting then down after WC3, and after seeing what they were doing with the horde he had came to love he would be pissed
    As for number 5 I am mostly talking about decisions which could have ended with the Death of Azeroth. Hitting the Alliance from behind on the Broken Front when they were fighting the Scourge costed both of them their lives. Sending his defence aeroplanes after that Alliance fleet in the Highlands resulted to him losing everything there and he was lucky he survived the fall. The Heart would have ended Azeroth. In general he did not think of consequences before taking actions.
    im pretty sure alliance did that as well, is a world of fools taking their chance, i love those tidbits, since is a game there is no real consequences and we get away with luck, make things more mundane you know, insubordination and those things

    maybe is because im too overwhelmed in space bullshit, mortal there mortal there, world ending things that i miss simple stories.

  20. #40
    We are to close to the whole " we all have to hate sylvannas " point in wow for this question.

    Ask again in a few years.

    for me personally: I thought Garrosh was always a lazy unbelievable character, a bit like a tantrum swinging child and i never thought that sylvanns was a rigthous character at all. Just waiting for her to backstab everyone since wotlk.
    I don't think any of those two are good written characters. Garrosh because he is just to... unbelievable as a character and Sylvannas because of their weird choice of dripfeeding us information about what she is up to for THREE FUCKING YEARS and still nobody knows much about what the f she is doing and why....

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