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  1. #281
    What I took away from this thread is that I probably don't want to bother trying any M+ this year. If this is a snapshot of how people behave, I don't need the hassle.

    Too bad.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    M+ has different emphases on different things than raid, solo/quest, or PvP.

    Unfortunately, Blizzard is desperately clinging to outmoded design concepts that clash with the idea of having different types of content like that. As a result, disparities widen considerably at the high end, and you end up in this meta trap that oppresses people's expectations. It also creates frustration for people with very narrow specializations - e.g. how Rogues are kings in M+ but really not that great in raid right now.

    Personally, I feel the flaw is not in the systems, but in class/spec design. They need to radically revise things to be more appropriate to the new paradigm of content they seem to be pushing. Having classes with 10 utility spells and classes with 1 is just not good design anymore; doubly so if the class with 10 utility spells ALSO happens to be doing 20% more damage. Some people having 6-second interrupts, while others have 1 minute, and so on.
    IMHO the issue is that they took the worst aspects of dungeons and, rather than adjust to fix it, embraced it and made it into content including esports. So it just reinforces everything people hated about dungeons while also giving people yet another way to show off their epeen so the tryhards, wannabes, and elitists love it because they can show how good they are.

    The entire concept is flawed for a mmorpg. This isn't Diablo. It doesn't need that sort of content, and especially not as an encouraged way of playing. M+ was better when it was challenge mode and not at all tied to power.

  3. #283
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalrend View Post
    I am typing this because I am genuinely about to break my keyboard with anger. 1310 rio Warlock here, Literally need 2 more dungeons to get +15 mount, grinded 12 hours per day since this reset if not more. Why? Because I didn't get a single dungeon invite this week. Zero. I applied more than 150 dungeons, not a single invite. What does the community require from you do get bloody invites? 1.3 K rio, 215 I lvl and how does everybody expecting to you to have more? I have been only doing my keys but at this point I just cannot stand going to some of the places for the 4th -5th bloody time.

    So heres my question, what do you require from your pugs to invite them to your high m+ pluses?
    So here's my question, Why haven't YOU started the groups?

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Wedny22 View Post
    Brother warlock, i wou invite you! Buy people are sheep.
    "Play meta, hurrrdurr, do not play what you want, play meta, MDI pogchampppp!!! Hurrrrr"...
    you get the geste, its insane

    - - - Updated - - -
    About inviting: Boomie, firemage and hunters:

    I woudnt, most firemages are legit braindead and cant combust. Lots of hunters refuse to BL, "dps löss" boomie has An messed up ramp, and tanks Will cry door much about the trents.

    Then you have real players, who play what they want, and know their class, user their abilities, etc. But you need a guild for that. I advice, stop pugging. Join a guild, a Community, anything.

    Ofcourse you can do a 15 with offmeta classes, its Just a bit harder, nog as hard as with flavor of the month rerollers.
    fire mages are the best example - all mages are going fire atm and they do abysmal bad numbers because it requires skill to utilize this spec - when if they went frost - aka brainded spec for aoe they would do really good numbers.

    pugging was always a nightmare - and always will be as long as blizzard keep overtuning instances

  5. #285
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalrend View Post
    What did you get from my post? I do add people and I do have friends. Sadly most of my friends don't like M plus at all because its not worth it for them, so they only do a key for their weekly and be done with it.

    Also I was not doing a lot of m plus either, I was just spamming my key since start of this week like a madman to raise my rio, because this week is rather simple and its a good week to get the mount. I don't enjoy M plus, it feels shitty compared to raiding and atm I only do heroic raiding. Basically I did bulk of my m plus in last 2-3 days. My complaint was that since start of this week, I been accepted to Zero groups. I have much easier time on my mage, which is less geared and not in the same rio level.
    How many groups have you started this week?

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  6. #286
    Well, there are too many dps for sure. Very few wants to roll a tank and just a few more wants to heal.
    As a tank I have tons of selections and finding a group is very easy.

    Be a part of solution, not a problem. That goes for every dps.
    "Tanking is easy" but for some reason very few want to take up that mantle.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    How many groups have you started this week?
    I did more than 30 runs this week on my keys only, Thats how i get the mount and complated the achi. I had 930 rio start of the week and have 1330 now. Got no invites, did 30-40 groups. Thats enough for you to not parrot "mAkE YoUR oWn gRoUp" statement where everybody know, which was not answering the main point of the thread? Main point of the thread is that you HAVE TO MAKE YOUR OWN GROUPS TO PARTICIPATE BECAUSE OF YOUR CLASS, how is that okay in your book?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Well, there are too many dps for sure. Very few wants to roll a tank and just a few more wants to heal.
    As a tank I have tons of selections and finding a group is very easy.

    Be a part of solution, not a problem. That goes for every dps.
    "Tanking is easy" but for some reason very few want to take up that mantle.
    Think I answered this but yeah I do agree with you, but heres the thing, I find tanking mind numbingly boring in raids. I think they are fun at m+, but from my main I want to be able to do every content and not want to blow my brains out when I am doing the content. I played tank in legion and some of the fights were literally wacthing the dps people fail for the 70th time (Hello M krosus and M star augur). No spec is "easy" if you are pushing hardest content you can push, but some roles can get boring. Healers generally enjoy the progress than the re clears for example, since after a while they are not struggling most of the time, which is one of the reasons the role is dynamic and fun.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalrend View Post
    I am typing this because I am genuinely about to break my keyboard with anger. 1310 rio Warlock here, Literally need 2 more dungeons to get +15 mount, grinded 12 hours per day since this reset if not more. Why? Because I didn't get a single dungeon invite this week. Zero. I applied more than 150 dungeons, not a single invite. What does the community require from you do get bloody invites? 1.3 K rio, 215 I lvl and how does everybody expecting to you to have more? I have been only doing my keys but at this point I just cannot stand going to some of the places for the 4th -5th bloody time.

    So heres my question, what do you require from your pugs to invite them to your high m+ pluses?
    Roll tank or heals. Youre out of meta and competing against 200 applicants. Rolling warlock is your issue. Why would anyone take a warlock over monk/boomkin/hunter/mage/dk. Specifically you're competing against other range that bring more options to the table.
    Last edited by poggers; 2021-01-12 at 04:01 PM.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by poggers View Post
    Roll tank or heals. Youre out of meta and competing against 200 applicants. Rolling warlock is your issue. Why would anyone take a warlock over monk/boomkin/hunter/mage/dk. Specifically you're competing against other range that bring more options to the table.
    More proof this system is flawed: The answer should never be "pick a different class". That alone shows huge flaws and the wrong idea both with the system and the community for perpetuating it.
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2021-01-12 at 04:57 PM.

  10. #290
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalrend View Post
    I did more than 30 runs this week on my keys only, Thats how i get the mount and complated the achi. I had 930 rio start of the week and have 1330 now. Got no invites, did 30-40 groups. Thats enough for you to not parrot "mAkE YoUR oWn gRoUp" statement where everybody know, which was not answering the main point of the thread? Main point of the thread is that you HAVE TO MAKE YOUR OWN GROUPS TO PARTICIPATE BECAUSE OF YOUR CLASS, how is that okay in your book?

    Nobody owes you an invite. period. full stop. If you dont understand that then its time for you to stop gaming.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    More proof this system is flawed: The answer should never be "pick a different class". That alone shows huge flaws and the wrong idea both with the system and the community for perpetuating it.
    I agree with you but unless blizzard implements "Looking for m+" where it auto puts you in a group then you will always fight against people who want the best chance to complete the dungeon and that includes class kits on top of every other filter they want.

  12. #292
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't this the point of a guild? If no one wants you in a pug...don't pug. Join a guild with a focus on M+.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't this the point of a guild? If no one wants you in a pug...don't pug. Join a guild with a focus on M+.


    Relying on a guild to do content doesn't solve the issue and only gives them a side option. Also does not mean he will be able to get groups simply by joining a guild.

  14. #294
    It's because the M+ community is full of metaslaves. Warlocks aren't on the top of raiderio so they must be trash. The only way you can time a +15 is with a DH tank, Shaman/Druid healer, Hunter/Druid/Rogue dps. Everyone knows this.

    /s if it wasn't obvious.

  15. #295
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpose View Post
    Relying on a guild to do content doesn't solve the issue and only gives them a side option. Also does not mean he will be able to get groups simply by joining a guild.
    Shouldn't Pugging be the side option? Guilds are the primary source of regular group content, and if OP does as much M+ as they say they do, having a guild that reliably runs this content should be their goal.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Guilford View Post
    You were making points? If Warlocks were USLESS as you claim they wouldn't have completed 21s this week. Wait, they did that. Strange. It appears you're the one who can't handle basic statistical analysis because how can a class be worthless if they're completed a SINGLE key less than the absolute best classes in the game? You're truly one in a million when it comes to how absolutely obtuse you are. I feel bad for anybody that had the misfortune of playing with you when you actually subbed to this game.
    You clearly don't understand statistics LMAO and it is hilarious.

    It isn't about what they "can" do, its about what is better for a group to do. I understand you are emotionally involved in this for whatever reason and you refuse to see the facts in front of you.

    The facts are, there are better classes to take because warlocks don't bring anything of value. That is a fact and it is supported by the community logs on performance and other metrics.

    You should take a step back and stop being so angry at facts.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by ztkraptor View Post
    You clearly don't understand statistics LMAO and it is hilarious.

    It isn't about what they "can" do, its about what is better for a group to do. I understand you are emotionally involved in this for whatever reason and you refuse to see the facts in front of you.

    The facts are, there are better classes to take because warlocks don't bring anything of value. That is a fact and it is supported by the community logs on performance and other metrics.

    You should take a step back and stop being so angry at facts.
    This guy is an example of your average m+ player, cant think for himself just repeating whatever someone told him or he saw on that one video. He most likely invites hunters/mages/bookmins only and still strugles to get past 600io.

    Meanwhile, Affli locks are very strong in higher keys.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    This guy is an example of your average m+ player, cant think for himself just repeating whatever someone told him or he saw on that one video. He most likely invites hunters/mages/bookmins only and still strugles to get past 600io.

    Meanwhile, Affli locks are very strong in higher keys.
    He probably doesn't even play. This week on my Pug group on Heroic Sire a dude said our phase 3 tactic was "IMPOSSIBLE" because he wacthed scripes stream and he said a different tactic. Not making this up. Then he proceed to tell us after we explained we killed like this last week, that he said that he did a viewer raid with them and they killed in a different way, so our tactic is near impossible. 1 pull later we killed with only him dying. Basically he admitted he got boosted for his curve and a moron by not undertsanding that we killed with our method with one sentence. A lot of people love to scoop the shit what top players tell them, not realizing they give the easiest way for them or what is the absolute best way to do it.

    If not the best=thrash logic will ruin this game and sad part is most of the people who are making this guides are warning people that the other classes/methods are not thrash/non-viable, it just this method for them is better. But most of the people are sheep.
    Last edited by Thalrend; 2021-01-12 at 06:49 PM.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    More proof this system is flawed: The answer should never be "pick a different class". That alone shows huge flaws and the wrong idea both with the system and the community for perpetuating it.
    Why not 5dps or 5 tank the m+? I mean its been done right? Why not do it all the time?

    Oh because it makes sense to bring the proper combination of classes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    This guy is an example of your average m+ player, cant think for himself just repeating whatever someone told him or he saw on that one video. He most likely invites hunters/mages/bookmins only and still strugles to get past 600io.

    Meanwhile, Affli locks are very strong in higher keys.
    No they aren't.

    I find it hilarious. You attack for using facts and statistical evidence to support the claim that I have said. Then use the same evidence as an insult.
    Either RaiderIO counts, or it doesn't? Make up your mind.
    You keep throwing out logical fallacies and its kind of sad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalrend View Post
    He probably doesn't even play. This week on my Pug group on Heroic Sire a dude said our phase 3 tactic was "IMPOSSIBLE" because he wacthed scripes stream and he said a different tactic. Not making this up. Then he proceed to tell us after we explained we killed like this last week, that he said that he did a viewer raid with them and they killed in a different way, so our tactic is near impossible. 1 pull later we killed with only him dying. Basically he admitted he got boosted for his curve and a moron by not undertsanding that we killed with our method with one sentence. A lot of people love to scoop the shit what top players tell them, not realizing they give the easiest way for them or what is the absolute best way to do it.

    If not the best=thrash logic will ruin this game and sad part is most of the people who are making this guides are warning people that the other classes/methods are not thrash/non-viable, it just this method for them is better. But most of the people are sheep.
    Discussing different strategies on out geared content and comparing it to the abilities of a class that can't be changed is not logical.
    You are comparing apples to oranges there.
    I haven't said if not the best=trash. I'm explaining that OP doesn't get invites to groups because WHY WOULD PEOPLE DO THINGS HARDER THAN NECESSARY?!?!
    Just because you CAN do something one way, doesn't mean it is the most efficient way of doing it.
    You can walk to work every day, its possible, but should you? Maybe not? Stop just stop.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalrend View Post
    He probably doesn't even play. This week on my Pug group on Heroic Sire a dude said our phase 3 tactic was "IMPOSSIBLE" because he wacthed scripes stream and he said a different tactic. Not making this up. Then he proceed to tell us after we explained we killed like this last week, that he said that he did a viewer raid with them and they killed in a different way, so our tactic is near impossible. 1 pull later we killed with only him dying. Basically he admitted he got boosted for his curve and a moron by not undertsanding that we killed with our method with one sentence. A lot of people love to scoop the shit what top players tell them, not realizing they give the easiest way for them or what is the absolute best way to do it.

    If not the best=thrash logic will ruin this game and sad part is most of the people who are making this guides are warning people that the other classes/methods are not thrash/non-viable, it just this method for them is better. But most of the people are sheep.
    You can tell he doesn't have much experience in general if he believes there's only one way to kill it or something.

    When I was still actively raiding mythic I never knew the heroic / normal mode strats that pugs used but I always knew they weren't using our strats.

    Hell even now I pugged a normal for the first time this xpac last week and they did everything different than my F&F group that had been running normal on the weekend.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

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