What is bloody wrong with people?

[Penegal]

I have a great solution vs. toxicity and elitism concerning pugs.

Make Blizzard ban / forbid R.IO
Profit

I sincerely hate this stupid addon, it ruined the game for so many players, especially those playing "non-meta" classes and specs
A lot of people will be very happy

Hardly. Raider.IO has helped so many runs it's not even funny at this point. Every time I take a chance on a lower rio player, it seems that their score is very, very correct. 99% of the time they turn out to be so stupid it's surprising they can even read.

Of course, that's not to say every player with decent rio is an actually decent player. However it's an order of magnitute more likely for the lower rio player to be retarded. And don't do the "but I have 67891 kids, 2871 wives and 120 mothers in-law. I have no time to play!" You don't need infinite time to get a slightly better than average rio. You can push your own key. It's not an excuse.

[bmjclark]

I think that's only true on Tyra where you sometimes need that lust, especially on the trickier bosses. On Fortified 10% more or less Haste won't make or break the attempt by itself. Brez is far more invaluable since nothing even comes close to replacing that.

It's 15% but yea. It likely won't make or break anything but when you're looking at a sea of DPS you can invite you might as well invite a mage to fill that lust slot, which leaves 2 others. I really don't think the problem is ever that "it can't be done this way" its just that it's not optimal and when people have dozens of options in front of them for a dps they choose what they feel is optimal.

[Penegal]

I was in a dungeon this week where someone literally told me he would jab my head off because I was mounted for too long and my DPS was subpar. I just turned 60..

I was astounded, couldn’t believe what I was reading. Never in those 15 years have I heard someone talking like that. Would have never happened back in the day, Blizzard has created a abhorrent and deplorable community. Or at least let it happen and refused to fix it.

Retards that think min-maxing matters in normal / heroic / m0 dungeons are everywhere. It's not worth your time to read what they type. Let alone to even care about it. I joined a normal to do the weekly dungeon quest from Oribos and the tank left after the first boss. We got a new tank who got kicked by the time we got to the 2nd boss, iirc. Why? Because he was pulling slowly and was behidn the group since I was overgeared and didn't need a tank in a normal dungeon. I pressed "No" but the kick passed. The reason given was "nab". The lower you go in the difficulty curve the more players you will find that somehow believe anything matters there, from gear to knowledge. The only thing that is desirable is for the player to at least have an idea of what the game is about and not be a completely headless chicken for the sake of wasted time (4 vs 1)

[oleander]

Retards that think min-maxing matters in normal / heroic / m0 dungeons are everywhere. It's not worth your time to read what they type. Let alone to even care about it. I joined a normal to do the weekly dungeon quest from Oribos and the tank left after the first boss. We got a new tank who got kicked by the time we got to the 2nd boss, iirc. Why? Because he was pulling slowly and was behidn the group since I was overgeared and didn't need a tank in a normal dungeon. I pressed "No" but the kick passed. The reason given was "nab". The lower you go in the difficulty curve the more players you will find that somehow believe anything matters there, from gear to knowledge. The only thing that is desirable is for the player to at least have an idea of what the game is about and not be a completely headless chicken for the sake of wasted time (4 vs 1)

I agree that they are not worth my time. Yet I can’t help but wonder what happened to this gamer community. Why still play online if everyone is such a nuisance to you? It makes me long for the time where dungeon stones and lock portals were a evil necessity, but still one that actually did bring people together and at least made people say ‘hi’ to each other. Now we got to a point where + 1 minute dungeon time is a reason for real life threats and kicking. It’s Blizzard own fault tbh. Their focus on ilevel, quick in-and-out PvE queues and strict time management destroyed everything.

[T-34]

I have a great solution vs. toxicity and elitism concerning pugs.

Make Blizzard ban / forbid R.IO
Profit

I sincerely hate this stupid addon, it ruined the game for so many players, especially those playing "non-meta" classes and specs
A lot of people will be very happy

People have always and will always do their utmost to find capable people to play with, this goes for all activities, not just WoW.
Raider.Io just presents information on your Armory in a different way. Blame Blizzard.

Capable players will always find a way to filter out the toxic bads.
If you and all the other "many players", "especially non-meta", would spend 1/10th of the energy and time you spend on whining about "elitism", "gate-keeping", "excluding", "raider.io" etc. on finding oppressed players like yourself and group up with them and get shit done, then you would all have done a +15 in time.
But for some strange reason you don't do it.

[Malefic]

Out of curiosity OP, why are you running without any potency conduits?

I'm sure it's not the reason for you not being invited to groups but do you see how any group you apply to that sees you without a potency conduit is going to assume your contribution to the group is going to be sub-par as a result, and thus less likely to invite you?

[Penegal]

I agree that they are not worth my time. Yet I can’t help but wonder what happened to this gamer community. Why still play online if everyone is such a nuisance to you? It makes me long for the time where dungeon stones and lock portals were a evil necessity, but still one that actually did bring people together and at least made people say ‘hi’ to each other. Now we got to a point where + 1 minute dungeon time is a reason for real life threats and kicking. It’s Blizzard own fault tbh. Their focus on ilevel, quick in-and-out PvE queues and strict time management destroyed everything.

The higher up you go, the less toxic people you see with this mindset. Right now, the biggest rejects in the game are doing the 5-9 bracket for keys. I can guarantee you there is a higher % of failure in those keys than in the 10-14 bracket. Give it maybe a couple more months and it's going to be 1 bracket up -> 10-14 are the biggest rejects with a bigger chance of failure than the 15-19 pugs.

The best thing you can do if you're behind the curve due to factors related outside of the game is to avoid pugging like the plague. Do your best to find communities, friends, remember people you've played with, a guild - anything, really. Everyone that plays the game and is at least average or above has passed into the next difficulty curve.

The only toxic people in the higher levels of difficulty are those who do not belong there but somehow clawed their way in. I've had tanks curse, moan and leave keys because they firmly believe others are at fault when they can't pull, don't know their own route, can't survive, don't kite and are unaware of mechanics.

Tank pulls more than he can handle, doesn't kite, healer can't out heal the damage he obviously cannot handle, he dies and it's somehow the healer's fault or some DPS that didn't kick that one specific spell that killed him, even if they kicked the other spells or had CDs etc.

The problem, in my eyes, is that the community has become very big compared to what it was back in vanilla - wotlk with the growth of the information age. There's a wealth of information out there for any topic you desire. There are more channes of communication now, than there were players back in the day. This allows you to find shitters and toxic people more easily. Back when communities were more tight knit, they'd just ostrecize those people and everyone would know about them and avoid them. Now, when was the last time you or me have even read the names of the people you played with? This is because you're highly unlikely to meet them again unless you specifically go out of your way to do so. You have replacements for everyone. Every class, spec and role can be replaced easily with the LFG.

Also, I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on Blizzard. They did their best to allow players to have as little downtime as possible so that those with less time to play don't spend it aimlessly looking for someone to play with. It's just that there may have been a better way to do it but not one I can think of.

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Warlocks have a huge weakness : their interrupts have freaky long cooldowns.
And currently their DPS is not bursty enough.
They are not a high key class (unless in a group of friends).

If they had a BL , they could be taken at least for that.

I think blizzard should give a BL to all pure dps classes.

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Warlocks do have an interrupts on a 24 seconds cd.
They also have a BR.

You have no clue about this class.

I can tell you right now: When I compare you to a hunter or boomkin with the same score, I'm gonna take one of them. Even if they have less score but have done relevant dungeons to what I'm doing and need. This is all simply because I know that they'll do a ton of damage without even trying and having the best gear. It's nigh guaranteed. If I'm making my own group, I'm going to want to have the least risk of failing. Classes that are "the meta" or outliers are classes that reduce the risk in pugs. I can't tell you how many keys paladins have killed for me because they're noobs from BFA and thought they can heal since it was an easy and OP class to heal in M+ with back then. It's gotten to the point where I literally list my group with [no holy paladins] in the title.

If you want to be picked without hesitation, either play a strong class in pugs or push your own key - then you're guaranteed a slot.

Warlocks are by no means a bad calss in an organized group. If you're not pushing the very pinnacle gear allows, where every single point of damage and healing counts, it's perfectly fine to run them. Any class for that matter. Maybe some specs are exceptions for keys above 15 as their damage is just very bad in general.

However, if I don't know you, I am absolutely not going to give you a chance when I can give it to someone that is similar to you in experience while guaranteeing me a higher chance of not fucking up my key.

[TheRevenantHero]

This is why I don't do higher end pve anymore. It's filled with toxic elitists that don't care how good you are with your class.

[Aleksej89]

Its possible a lot of these players have you memorized or noted down in a negative way and don't want to invite you because of, well, yourself.

Other than that i don't know what else could be a reason - either bad luck or some negative stigma vs warlocks but there are worse classes than warlocks out there.
Though as other posters have noted warlocks have never been a "quick" class, since they require some time to ramp up their damage (unless destruction i guess?).

Try changing what you write/say to groups you apply for... its possible you get refused due to something you do in your initial approach, perhaps even your character or guild name.

[deenman]

just because you have that doesn't mean it's widely available. every guild I've ever joined had a close clique of people that they took to mythics and raids. they treat everyone outside that clique like outsiders, usually ignoring them when they talk in gchat or coming up with dumb reasons for not taking them to groups like they have one talent choice the core group doesn't like.

thats rly crazy to me honestly...for us the gm takes extra effort to get new people in to see how they perform,and activly tries to get them to socialize and stuff,he rly dislikes it when they dont seem to wanna come on discord and do stuff

[xero5141]

Have you guys actually made any groups for a key of any level to pug DPS? It's ridiculous the amount of people that sign up. I was doing a +7 Mists the other day... tank and healer in group already so just needed 3 DPS and I'm not sure what the max amount of sign ups are (if there is one) but after getting up to get a drink that's how many I had.

Point being: the list moves too fast to even look at people thoroughly, essentially just picking a random person that fits the best most of the time.

[Thalrend]

Out of curiosity OP, why are you running without any potency conduits?

I'm sure it's not the reason for you not being invited to groups but do you see how any group you apply to that sees you without a potency conduit is going to assume your contribution to the group is going to be sub-par as a result, and thus less likely to invite you?

My potency conduit is 200 on my best potency conduit on my best soul bind on my best covenant which is night fea. I don't even have the 213 conduit on which shows right now. So that one I don't have a answer why it would show like that. Currently upgrading my potency counduits to 226 slowly via venari.

- - - Updated - - -

People have always and will always do their utmost to find capable people to play with, this goes for all activities, not just WoW.
Raider.Io just presents information on your Armory in a different way. Blame Blizzard.

Capable players will always find a way to filter out the toxic bads.
If you and all the other "many players", "especially non-meta", would spend 1/10th of the energy and time you spend on whining about "elitism", "gate-keeping", "excluding", "raider.io" etc. on finding oppressed players like yourself and group up with them and get shit done, then you would all have done a +15 in time.
But for some strange reason you don't do it.

I already did it. I already have the mount after making only my groups due to ZERO invites to any key, period. It doesn't change the fact that is i failed the run on the one key i am missing after 5 hours of m plus, some of the stuff i cant even control like a rare tank dc etc, i would have to go through the shit again for another 5-7 hours just to have another attempt when i timed +16s and +15s on everything else and double cheested a +14 on this week on the dungeon I want to do +15 too. How that is not good enough to get in groups after fucking 100 applications? Just because of my class?

If my class was shit and my gear was shit and if I was shit how the fuck i timed the other dungeons. I don't even have to many failed dungeons if you check it compared to amount of dungeons I did timed. I have to go through mind numbingly boring repetitive fucking content for a goal I want to achieve on the content I already achieved and get no gear. There is no rio to get and there is no gear to get, you just mindlessly cycle keys to get the dungeon you need because apperently meta class>>>>> non meta class regardless how successful you are on your own class.

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You are useless, that is why you don't get invited.
Play a class with usefull abilities.

I would call you toxic but I think you have other things going in your life would triumph any bad thing I could say for you. Hope it get better for you in the future!

[Tiwack]

It's a bad combo of timed + timegates + gearscore + weekly reset + random lottery + anons. Everyone wants to game the meta and take the easy street and when you're not it then you best not bother. Blizz were warned, players either make friends and stay subbed or they play just a month every patch and then go play something they actually enjoy that doesn't treat them like gullible addicts to be squeezed for profit.

[WskyDK]

This is why I don't do higher end pve anymore. It's filled with toxic elitists that don't care how good you are with your class.

Blizz is partially to blame for this.
There are zero ways ingame to tell how good a player actually is.
A scaling-difficulty dungeon, and a time limit therein, where failure is met with virtually zero reward means the community has to fend for itself for people who actually want to play it. Raider.io is far from perfect, but is only a single metric that should be looked at when it comes to determining player ability.

This week I want to try and avoid melee if I can help it since they're likely to take a tick or two of sanguine, and could drop quaking on the tank.
Dungeon also makes a difference. Depths this week means I want to build a more balanced melee/ranged group despite the first point. The dungeon has too many confined areas to stack on area with quaking. in depths I also want to avoid casters if I can since many of them seem to prefer eating shit that stopping a cast to avoid things (hello ring boss).

To the original point though. The only metrics I have when it comes to sorting through players applying for my key (which aren't even high in the slightest. trying to finish +10's this week since my work schedule is good) are their io and ilvl. Neither of which paints a good picture of player ability, but they're literally the only thing I can look at to try and not have my time wasted.

[Yoshimiko]

Push your own keys, make friends, get in a decent guild, play meta classes.
Pick 1~

[Ermelloth]

Hardly. Raider.IO has helped so many runs it's not even funny at this point. Every time I take a chance on a lower rio player, it seems that their score is very, very correct. 99% of the time they turn out to be so stupid it's surprising they can even read.

What about people with low IO, cause they simply run like 1-2 max M+ dungeons per week, if they are lucky to find a group (since they can't dedicate more time to it), and not because they are necessarily awful?

I can assure you, there is a plethora of such players in WoW. I work 5 / 7 (stock manager / staff director), have a lot of responsibilities IRL, have family, write a fantasy novel (atm 12/30 chapters done, already found a publisher), etc... If I find time to play several hours, its usually late in the night. I I'm super lucky and guild members can bother to take me along to some M 7-8-9, its great. If not, I'm getting denied with my ilvl 204 even for M+ 5-6 cause Im both Ret and have around 300 IO (since I've completed maybe 8-9 M runs entire SL).

How am I supposed to get better or even prove myself, if I'm not given any opportunity to begin with? Spec filtering also plays major role here, since pugs prefer 190 boomie or hunter to 204 Ret. And few guildmates who run higher keys, prefer meta classes and quick clearings. There are 7-8 people constantly running 12-13+ keys, but they don't really take others along.

I believe I'm not the only player having troubles like that, and yes, I partially blame R.IO for this trouble. Otherwise (if people would just check armory and ilvl in my case) I could at least get the spots I believe I deserve in some moderate level M+ runs, but IO is the reason I actually have a hard time to. Sorry, getting declined for, say, Tirna 5 with 204, when you overgear it by a mile, is pathetic.

[munkeyinorbit]

I don't know why. Summoning a pet and dismissing it takes a few seconds. Lazy Hunters I guess? Although to me it seems more like a "take a BM" problem.

Also fuck rio. It's just gear score with extra steps.

As a MM I would just use a pet on boss(es). I lose 400 dps. Who cares. Hero would more than make up for my slight handicap. If the group wanted me to use it elsewhere I would. It's not that big a deal. Would taking a BM instead be any better? I think it would actually be worse.

[burek]

Other than that i don't know what else could be a reason - either bad luck or some negative stigma vs warlocks but there are worse classes than warlocks out there.

There is some of that, and it's been increasing slowly throughout the years. The community perception of warlocks in M+ has deteriorated badly lately. We were never a meta class, and there was always something better, but there were zero issues getting invited throughout Legion and at the start of BfA. And every season of BfA it was worse and worse - and it has now reached a point where you cant even get invited even to do the weekly shit, we are not talking about high keys here.

[vsb]

You need to play meta specialization to be invited into higher-keys. Warlock is not one of them. Play hunter, mage or owl.

Or even better tank DH. Draeneis and elves women will lick you in every place of your body for that.

[TheRevenantHero]

Blizz is partially to blame for this.
There are zero ways ingame to tell how good a player actually is.
A scaling-difficulty dungeon, and a time limit therein, where failure is met with virtually zero reward means the community has to fend for itself for people who actually want to play it. Raider.io is far from perfect, but is only a single metric that should be looked at when it comes to determining player ability.

This week I want to try and avoid melee if I can help it since they're likely to take a tick or two of sanguine, and could drop quaking on the tank.
Dungeon also makes a difference. Depths this week means I want to build a more balanced melee/ranged group despite the first point. The dungeon has too many confined areas to stack on area with quaking. in depths I also want to avoid casters if I can since many of them seem to prefer eating shit that stopping a cast to avoid things (hello ring boss).

To the original point though. The only metrics I have when it comes to sorting through players applying for my key (which aren't even high in the slightest. trying to finish +10's this week since my work schedule is good) are their io and ilvl. Neither of which paints a good picture of player ability, but they're literally the only thing I can look at to try and not have my time wasted.

Don't blame Blizzard at all. Because in reality, it's the boosters who are to blame. People with high raider.io scores that have absolutely no idea how to play the game. But then there's people who expect high raider.io because they just want a carry. The entire pve community has become so toxic.