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  1. #161
    I rather not cuz drama and some bullshits. No thanks, I get it or i don't get it Simple as that. *angry hjonking noises over pixels upgrade*

  2. #162
    I don't think ML should be gone. I do however, think personal loot, should be a default. I'm more in favor of a currency to just buy what you want, though, personally.
    "The fatal flaw of every plan, no matter how well planned, is the assumption that you know more than your enemy."

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    There's a difference between playing a game where gear feels like a shopping list and one in which random rewards actually feel... rewarding.
    How people can have feelings like this about random rewards is beyond me. "Random chance" still ultimately amounts to a statistic somehow. Either you brute-force it, or you randomly get it ahead of the brute-force curve, but it doesn't feel rewarding to me just because I get it ahead of that curve. What makes things feel rewarding is doing something difficult and getting something equally exclusive. Feeling lucky != feeling rewarding.

    Quote Originally Posted by trapmaster View Post
    I rather not cuz drama and some bullshits. No thanks, I get it or i don't get it Simple as that. *angry hjonking noises over pixels upgrade*
    And regardless of who gets it or the reasons why, if I feel like I'm not getting equally rewarded for my effort versus other people, I'm getting upset and it's a ticking time bomb until I quit. I play this game to get parses and feel superior to people. Gear is a necessary means to that end. The more wasted loot there is and the more focus on personal luck for that success, the more likely I am to quit.

    Not that it matters anymore, because corruptions were the ultimate nail in that coffin and made me quit for good...

    But if wow actually wanted to improve on this front, they need to have a way of ensuring the difference between players who get lucky with loot isn't huge compared to people who aren't... or that it's just flat not possible for people to "win the lottery" at all.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2021-01-12 at 05:15 PM.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    And what if you can't find a better guild? It is far better to remove ml and remove the problem at the source.
    LOL, so you're guild is toxic and shitty and you can't find a better one?

    Nice fanfic.

  5. #165
    If ML came back, the PUG community would turn into it was back in WoD:

    ML MS>OS (x reserved)

    MS>OS is supposed to be main spec > off spec, but it really means "my stuff > others' stuff"

    Blizzard got tired of being flooded with tickets crying about ninja looting and decided to end it by making it PL across the board.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlunie View Post
    LOL, so you're guild is toxic and shitty and you can't find a better one?

    Nice fanfic.
    The fanfic is believing that it is very easy to find a new guild and also find one that doesn't abuse loot because you won't know until loot starts dropping.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    The fanfic is believing that it is very easy to find a new guild and also find one that doesn't abuse loot because you won't know until loot starts dropping.
    I raided in 7 different guilds when master looter was a thing.

    Never any fights about loot because we all had a common goal. Dissenters were removed.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    How people can have feelings like this about random rewards is beyond me.
    This was the argument for TF'ing for the two expansions it existed. And now that it's removed, I find it quaintly ironic that the same logic being applied to regular gear is somehow beyond the scope of comprehension for most WoW players. But I get it -- I don't think Blizzard will ever find a rewards system that all players find the same level of engagement with. I'm fine with admitting the current system isn't perfect but I have to draw the line when I see people making rose-tinted proclamations of the superiority of prior loot systems in the game as if those systems also didn't have downsides as well.

  9. #169
    Hell to the NO to the Nth degree.

    I will NEVER deal with Master Loot ever again, in any MMORPG.

    This is a game, not a job. This is a virtual world, not resources being divvied up by some communist leader to whomever (s)he thinks should get it best....i.e. - their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife who isn't a very good gamer but he/she gets that special treatment because relationship.
    If we could all sit and talk without demonizing one another and attempt to understand the opposite point of view, the collective world would be a better place. Mental bigotry is the worst of all.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by meowfurion View Post
    Hell to the NO to the Nth degree.

    I will NEVER deal with Master Loot ever again, in any MMORPG.

    This is a game, not a job. This is a virtual world, not resources being divvied up by some communist leader to whomever (s)he thinks should get it best....i.e. - their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife who isn't a very good gamer but he/she gets that special treatment because relationship.
    And no one can force you to "deal" with it. Just like before they forced PL onto everyone to placate certain players, you would have a choice.

  11. #171
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
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    The only people who benefit from Master Loot are raid tanks and small people on power trips.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlunie View Post
    I raided in 7 different guilds when master looter was a thing.

    Never any fights about loot because we all had a common goal. Dissenters were removed.
    That doesn't mean everyone was happy. That just meant people knew they had to shut up or get kicked. Not the same thing.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    The only people who benefit from Master Loot are raid tanks and small people on power trips.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That doesn't mean everyone was happy. That just meant people knew they had to shut up or get kicked. Not the same thing.
    When you are in a good progress guild and you like the people you play with. Master loot is a great thing. My second guild was like that, I played years with them in MoP, WoD and Legion.
    I play healer so I am always the least favored for loots and I am perfectly fine with that.

    But maybe that's just me, I don't know. I never compete with loot, even if it is BiS for me and someone also has the item as BiS, I pass and congratulate them. I only take loots that nobody wants as first spec loot. Reading this thread, I am in the minority for sure.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by glszino View Post
    When you are in a good progress guild and you like the people you play with. Master loot is a great thing. My second guild was like that, I played years with them in MoP, WoD and Legion.
    I play healer so I am always the least favored for loots and I am perfectly fine with that.

    But maybe that's just me, I don't know. I never compete with loot, even if it is BiS for me and someone also has the item as BiS, I pass and congratulate them. I only take loots that nobody wants as first spec loot. Reading this thread, I am in the minority for sure.
    That's the rub. ML allows guilds to make decisions outside the hands of the players participating in the raids. In a perfect world where people have mentalities similar to yours, it's perfect. DPS and tanks typically get geared first because you're far more likely to hit a wall which can be overcome with more DPS than you are one which can't be solved by adding/removing a healer or simply playing better. The issues are that, as you observed, your mentality is one in the minority and most people are looking out for themselves first and foremost. And while it'd be nice to let guilds opt themselves back into the option for ML, forced PL seems to be the path of least resistance. As I said earlier in the thread, it's a bad compromise for some players (particularly those in progression Mythic raiding guilds) but it's the best compromise for most (everybody else).

  14. #174
    Stood in the Fire LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    This was the argument for TF'ing for the two expansions it existed. And now that it's removed, I find it quaintly ironic that the same logic being applied to regular gear is somehow beyond the scope of comprehension for most WoW players. But I get it -- I don't think Blizzard will ever find a rewards system that all players find the same level of engagement with. I'm fine with admitting the current system isn't perfect but I have to draw the line when I see people making rose-tinted proclamations of the superiority of prior loot systems in the game as if those systems also didn't have downsides as well.
    It often feels like Blizzard really likes to go 180 in their designs/systems when something didn't work out, i.e. i'd wager that you wouldn't have the amount of complaining if they'd gone with the chance% reduction in loot but still let us have 2 bonus rolls for the raid and 2 items in m+ even when the key got depleted.

    I mean..just open up the NA General cesspool forum... yea i know they always complain about everything but the last few weeks it's been outstanding imo... so my best guess is that they'll probably also do something in the next few weeks or with the next major patch loot wise.

  15. #175
    It just feels like shit doing mythic raids and getting no loot for so long is like you're not rewarded at all for your efforts.
    And the worst part is when someone pulls a 226 item or some shit and then the item they have that's 223 with a socket is better but they still can't even trade it the 226

    The fact that this game is devolving, loot wise, into a weekly fucking vault roll is getting on my nerves.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlunie View Post
    I raided in 7 different guilds when master looter was a thing.

    Never any fights about loot because we all had a common goal. Dissenters were removed.
    And how many guilds total are there in WoW. This is like saying nobody fights over loot because me and my 6 buddies never did. You not experiencing something doe not mean it didn't happen. IT also doesn't mean everyone was happy either. IT can also mean that everyone knew to shut up so they wouldn't get kicked.

    As has been said, Blizzard has the data, if things were like you said then Blizzard never would have made the change in the first place.
    Last edited by rrayy; 2021-01-14 at 08:23 AM.

  17. #177
    I don't know why it took so long for blizz to realize that ml is the biggest disgrace ever happened to wow
    You think you do, but you don't ©
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  18. #178
    GTFO with the master loot, personal loot is way way better and no more ninjas.

  19. #179
    Only ninjas want master loot.

    If ur in a guild, people will pass loot they don't need. So stop crying u can't force loot privilege..

    The other day asmongold was bragging how he suddenly changed to master loot before pull, mount drops n he takes mount, no roll no nothing...this is the biggest loud mouth about the need for master loot...
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2021-01-14 at 10:55 AM.

  20. #180
    best thing in master looting is master looter taking all items then disenchant them in front of the raid because why not

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