Masterloot should return

[rrayy]

LOL, so you're guild is toxic and shitty and you can't find a better one?

Nice fanfic.

The fanfic is believing that it is very easy to find a new guild and also find one that doesn't abuse loot because you won't know until loot starts dropping.

[Merlunie]

The fanfic is believing that it is very easy to find a new guild and also find one that doesn't abuse loot because you won't know until loot starts dropping.

I raided in 7 different guilds when master looter was a thing.

Never any fights about loot because we all had a common goal. Dissenters were removed.

[Relapses]

How people can have feelings like this about random rewards is beyond me.

This was the argument for TF'ing for the two expansions it existed. And now that it's removed, I find it quaintly ironic that the same logic being applied to regular gear is somehow beyond the scope of comprehension for most WoW players. But I get it -- I don't think Blizzard will ever find a rewards system that all players find the same level of engagement with. I'm fine with admitting the current system isn't perfect but I have to draw the line when I see people making rose-tinted proclamations of the superiority of prior loot systems in the game as if those systems also didn't have downsides as well.

[meowfurion]

Hell to the NO to the Nth degree.

I will NEVER deal with Master Loot ever again, in any MMORPG.

This is a game, not a job. This is a virtual world, not resources being divvied up by some communist leader to whomever (s)he thinks should get it best....i.e. - their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife who isn't a very good gamer but he/she gets that special treatment because relationship.

[Mardux]

Hell to the NO to the Nth degree.

I will NEVER deal with Master Loot ever again, in any MMORPG.

This is a game, not a job. This is a virtual world, not resources being divvied up by some communist leader to whomever (s)he thinks should get it best....i.e. - their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife who isn't a very good gamer but he/she gets that special treatment because relationship.

And no one can force you to "deal" with it. Just like before they forced PL onto everyone to placate certain players, you would have a choice.

[Klingers]

The only people who benefit from Master Loot are raid tanks and small people on power trips.

- - - Updated - - -

I raided in 7 different guilds when master looter was a thing.

Never any fights about loot because we all had a common goal. Dissenters were removed.

That doesn't mean everyone was happy. That just meant people knew they had to shut up or get kicked. Not the same thing.

[glszino]

The only people who benefit from Master Loot are raid tanks and small people on power trips.

- - - Updated - - -

That doesn't mean everyone was happy. That just meant people knew they had to shut up or get kicked. Not the same thing.

When you are in a good progress guild and you like the people you play with. Master loot is a great thing. My second guild was like that, I played years with them in MoP, WoD and Legion.
I play healer so I am always the least favored for loots and I am perfectly fine with that.

But maybe that's just me, I don't know. I never compete with loot, even if it is BiS for me and someone also has the item as BiS, I pass and congratulate them. I only take loots that nobody wants as first spec loot. Reading this thread, I am in the minority for sure.

[Relapses]

When you are in a good progress guild and you like the people you play with. Master loot is a great thing. My second guild was like that, I played years with them in MoP, WoD and Legion.
I play healer so I am always the least favored for loots and I am perfectly fine with that.

But maybe that's just me, I don't know. I never compete with loot, even if it is BiS for me and someone also has the item as BiS, I pass and congratulate them. I only take loots that nobody wants as first spec loot. Reading this thread, I am in the minority for sure.

That's the rub. ML allows guilds to make decisions outside the hands of the players participating in the raids. In a perfect world where people have mentalities similar to yours, it's perfect. DPS and tanks typically get geared first because you're far more likely to hit a wall which can be overcome with more DPS than you are one which can't be solved by adding/removing a healer or simply playing better. The issues are that, as you observed, your mentality is one in the minority and most people are looking out for themselves first and foremost. And while it'd be nice to let guilds opt themselves back into the option for ML, forced PL seems to be the path of least resistance. As I said earlier in the thread, it's a bad compromise for some players (particularly those in progression Mythic raiding guilds) but it's the best compromise for most (everybody else).

[TheLucky1]

This was the argument for TF'ing for the two expansions it existed. And now that it's removed, I find it quaintly ironic that the same logic being applied to regular gear is somehow beyond the scope of comprehension for most WoW players. But I get it -- I don't think Blizzard will ever find a rewards system that all players find the same level of engagement with. I'm fine with admitting the current system isn't perfect but I have to draw the line when I see people making rose-tinted proclamations of the superiority of prior loot systems in the game as if those systems also didn't have downsides as well.

It often feels like Blizzard really likes to go 180 in their designs/systems when something didn't work out, i.e. i'd wager that you wouldn't have the amount of complaining if they'd gone with the chance% reduction in loot but still let us have 2 bonus rolls for the raid and 2 items in m+ even when the key got depleted.

I mean..just open up the NA General cesspool forum... yea i know they always complain about everything but the last few weeks it's been outstanding imo... so my best guess is that they'll probably also do something in the next few weeks or with the next major patch loot wise.

[La]

It just feels like shit doing mythic raids and getting no loot for so long is like you're not rewarded at all for your efforts.
And the worst part is when someone pulls a 226 item or some shit and then the item they have that's 223 with a socket is better but they still can't even trade it the 226

The fact that this game is devolving, loot wise, into a weekly fucking vault roll is getting on my nerves.

[rrayy]

I raided in 7 different guilds when master looter was a thing.

Never any fights about loot because we all had a common goal. Dissenters were removed.

And how many guilds total are there in WoW. This is like saying nobody fights over loot because me and my 6 buddies never did. You not experiencing something doe not mean it didn't happen. IT also doesn't mean everyone was happy either. IT can also mean that everyone knew to shut up so they wouldn't get kicked.

As has been said, Blizzard has the data, if things were like you said then Blizzard never would have made the change in the first place.

[D3athsting]

I don't know why it took so long for blizz to realize that ml is the biggest disgrace ever happened to wow

[Soimu]

GTFO with the master loot, personal loot is way way better and no more ninjas.

[Ihavewaffles]

Only ninjas want master loot.

If ur in a guild, people will pass loot they don't need. So stop crying u can't force loot privilege..

The other day asmongold was bragging how he suddenly changed to master loot before pull, mount drops n he takes mount, no roll no nothing...this is the biggest loud mouth about the need for master loot...

[Soimu]

best thing in master looting is master looter taking all items then disenchant them in front of the raid because why not

[Glorious Leader]

I don't think ML should be gone. I do however, think personal loot, should be a default. I'm more in favor of a currency to just buy what you want, though, personally.

At this point most people would also be in favor but the developers have some aversion to this. It was wildly successful when it was done before.

[Manjachka]

Nah, leave it as is.

[exochaft]

Only ninjas want master loot.

If ur in a guild, people will pass loot they don't need. So stop crying u can't force loot privilege..

The problem with personal loot is that it doesn't offer complete freedom in passing loot, and I've run into this a LOT even this current raid tier. If you keep getting small ilvl increments in gear drops and you want to give it to someone that hasn't been lucky and could use the upgrade more, too bad because PL prevents this. Want to trade an OH token to someone that needs it because you're using a 2Her of the same ilvl? Too bad, PL won't let you. The irony is that with PL in place I've seen way more loot drama, not less... and this is amplified currently by less loot dropping in Shadowlands.

While ML had its issues, PL does, too. That doesn't mean both can't have their place. I think ML should come back and be possible to enable for a raid/dungeon if you're in a guild group. If you're pugging and don't meet the threshold, default sticks to PL. Tech already exists that detects these sorts of things for guild achievement tracking, but Blizz never uses it for anything other than guild achievement tracking. The obvious solution is to let guilds decide how they want to do loot, and let the community sort its own issues out.

[Kralljin]

As has been said, Blizzard has the data, if things were like you said then Blizzard never would have made the change in the first place.

And what does this "data" of Blizzard say?

At best, data says how many guilds are using ML or PL, but reading anything outside of that from "data" would be a damn magic trick.

[Vasilisa]

ML is dramo-genic. No need to go back and give people another toxic tool.