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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    I did question this a couple of days ago in the Beta Spoilers thread If I had missed whether we had done anything about it or it had just been forgotten and the response I got was that the Maw is still sealed so the Jailer and his forces can't do anything about it. Despite the fact the Maw is explicitly stated to be sealed off from the Shadowlands, the tear literally being a physical manifestation within the Maw and the Mawsworn Kyrian having been shown to be able to invade Azeroth. I also questioned the logic behind the Helm being the thing that provided a "path" through the tear (considering it's a Maw Artifact after all and it's shattering also meant a big doorway could be opened and it can just do all these things (that the writers want it to) now) but all I got is Don't know how it works.

    Basically the Writer's have created a literal plot hole that they're going to ignore until they feel it's relevant again. I feel it's Sword 2.0.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    They didn't. Though storywise, we didn't leave, we just let others in so far.
    You travel
    Back to Azeroth for several campaign quests, including back to boralus

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    The Jailer already had a plan set in motion.

    According to Devos, "we would have never learnt of this calamity" had Uther just gotten rid (if he could have) of his memories, which means PRIOR to WOTLK, his plan was in motion.

    Fast forward a few years and we land smack dab into Shadowlands.

    But going through the storyline, Revendreth anima would have been forced into the Maw anyway. Denathrius and his plan for the drought would have happened anyway.

    The only thing we have changed is stopping them.
    (holy crap does this mean Sylvanas is a good person? /s)

    Obviously, every thing that is imprisoned wants to break out. So the jailer having a plan is not the issue, thats normal. My point is. What the hell does the helm even do, besides taking Azerothian leaders hostage and getting the PC some sick ass loot?

    The only thing the Jailer has really gained, is Anduin for a supposed weapon. but in the hell does a being that is so damn powerful that it takes 4 additional beings of similar power to keep chained away, NEED WITH ANDUIN.

    like really, what if Garrosh, back in MoP thought, "no you little shit, breaking the bell on your ass is not enough" walks over and slams gorehowl into his head, what then? I mean hes going to break out anyway as per Denathrius and the machine of death being broken. So why break the helm in anticipation of making a weapon out of Anduin. And possible invite people like Gnomercy the fury warrior, xSephirothx the blood elf paladin and XLegolazX the night elf hunter into your house to farm purples. You are gonna break out anyway. Why add this variable?
    You do know the “calamity” Devos mentions isn’t the Jailer or his plans, but the fact that Frostmourne somehow split Uther’s soul in two which caused issues with the Arbiter’s judgement of him.
    On topic, as others have stated, splitting the helm is what allowed the rift to open which allowed the realities to come together at the focal point of Icecrown Citadel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    First of all the devs successes said we will not be leaving the Shadowlands for the expansion. They already kinda broke that too, because I had at least 2 quests for the Nightfae that let me to Azeroth (Twilight Highlands and Nazmir).

    More inportant questions:

    1. Why invade Azeroth? Why not one of the countless other worlds? Is it that world soul thing again? Might be.
    2. Why shatter the veil when he was CLEARLY not ready to invade? Currently it seems like he is not even close to invade.
    1). Azeroth is where he met Sylvanas. It is where Arthas hailed from and attempted to take over, which assumes that this is where the Jailer put in motion his plans long before we ever existed. Azeroth is where the heroes have thwarted the plans of other big bads, which makes trying to eliminate or severely weaken them a major topic.
    2). As others have stated, he wanted Anduin to be his weapon (something he needs to achieve his goals), and from the kidnapping of the Horde leaders appears to be trying to cause morale issues and cause chaos amongst his enemies.

  4. #44
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    i addressed that. my point is why. it was done on the jailer's order, but honestly, why lol, Denathrius was going to siphon anima anyway. the machine of death was already broken. The drought was already in effect.

    If anything we mucked his plan up by him having sylvanas break it.
    He sent Sylvanas to break it...gonna have to ask the Jailor
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    You are gonna break out anyway. Why add this variable?
    If it was that easy for him to break out he would have done it already.

  6. #46
    Because they thought it would look really cool for in a cinematic

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    No no you are right, I just versed it terribly (and couldn't recall it verbatim either) but that's the exact part I was mentioning (but couldn't find the actual source to). That's the interview ppl are extrapolating a little bit.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Yes, lets ignore the giant hole in the sky connecting the Maw to Azeroth.
    If you think about it. Wasn't there already a whole in the sky. After Illidian used the keystone to open a way for us to get to Argus? But now that's some how magically disappeared? Whatever happened to that?

  9. #49
    You're expecting lore consistency in the expansion with the absolute worst story.

  10. #50
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripleh View Post
    If you think about it. Wasn't there already a whole in the sky. After Illidian used the keystone to open a way for us to get to Argus? But now that's some how magically disappeared? Whatever happened to that?
    Titans closed it at the end of Antorus. The Seat of the Pantheon pulls away and closes it.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  11. #51
    Brewmaster Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    The point was shattering the sky so the Maw could invade Azeroth.

    I'm quite sure the next raid tier (9.1) will be on Azeroth, repelling the Scourge and Maw forces.
    I'm not so sure about that, from the dev interviews we have herd, it sounds like from 9.0-9.3 we fully committed in the shadowlands. As they have hinted things might not be the same once we do get back, and if we return every other patch it would feel odd that come 9.3 or 10.0 we are now experiencing something crazy, but not befor.

    Personally my bet is on a Maldrx raid for 9.1, a new zone + raid probably centered around the brokers for 9.2, and then in 9.3 we get the final raid mostly in the maw with the last little bit in Orobos (I mean the arbiters platform screams boss room...)
    Last edited by Whitedragon; 2021-01-11 at 02:38 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Honestly we know dick all about the Jailer or Sylvanas' plans at this point. I assume the reason they wanted the Maw connected to Azeroth was so the Jailer could eventually leave the Shadowlands.

    As it stands, sure, Revendreth is feeding the Maw and so on and so forth, but can the Jailer actually affect places that aren't IN the Shadowlands once he's out of the Maw?
    Sure, conquer the Shadowlands, but can he leave? I don't know if he can or not. I think his goal is to escape the Maw, and then after that escape the Shadowlands.
    Don't see any reason why he couldn't. His Mawsworn were able to leave to abduct the faction leaders and raise fallen Scourge and cause other mischief.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    i addressed that. my point is why. it was done on the jailer's order, but honestly, why lol, Denathrius was going to siphon anima anyway. the machine of death was already broken. The drought was already in effect.

    If anything we mucked his plan up by him having sylvanas break it.
    The jailer wants to kill Azeorth's world soul. He needs a method to get to the world soul...

    Also bring Slyvannas back to his side without her dying again

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    It has been hinted at that Titans go to the Order plane upon death and not to the SLs themselves
    Where is this hinted?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    Where is this hinted?
    There was an interview where they said mortals go to the Shadowlands and "magical being" go to their native realms after death. They then briefly mention titans and and a potential Titan realm but there are no solid answers.

    But wild gods go to the Shadowlands so....
    Last edited by WonderZebra; 2021-01-11 at 04:42 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouri Kogorou View Post
    to bring the "weapon".
    I really want to know what that is

  17. #57
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Your Mommy View Post
    I really want to know what that is
    Lord Anduin is the weapon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    You do know the “calamity” Devos mentions isn’t the Jailer or his plans, but the fact that Frostmourne somehow split Uther’s soul in two which caused issues with the Arbiter’s judgement of him.
    On topic, as others have stated, splitting the helm is what allowed the rift to open which allowed the realities to come together at the focal point of Icecrown Citadel.

    - - - Updated - - -



    1). Azeroth is where he met Sylvanas. It is where Arthas hailed from and attempted to take over, which assumes that this is where the Jailer put in motion his plans long before we ever existed. Azeroth is where the heroes have thwarted the plans of other big bads, which makes trying to eliminate or severely weaken them a major topic.
    2). As others have stated, he wanted Anduin to be his weapon (something he needs to achieve his goals), and from the kidnapping of the Horde leaders appears to be trying to cause morale issues and cause chaos amongst his enemies.
    i thought the calamity was basically "someone on a mortal world is using the power of the maw, meaning the jailer is not so locked away as we thought"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Personally, I think the Jailer's plan has been a more long term one - it's only now with the sundering of the Helm and the full breaking of the machine of Death that it can come to its fruition. While some of this remains speculation and guesswork on my part, I think the creation of Frostmourne and the Lich King was essentially step 1 of a master plan of sorts. It essentially gave the Jailer a foothold into the physical world, creating a conduit by which his will could be extended beyond the Maw's confines. This, in turn, allowed him to start spreading his influence beyond the Maw - creating things like the Cult of the Damned, extending the influence of Necromancy, etc. etc. Over time and with successive iterations of the Scourge this foothold grew by inches and ounces, until the Jailer could at last access true proxies such the the Val'kyr, figures like Kel'Thuzad, possibly Ephial, and eventually Sylvanas Windrunner.

    Once Death was broken and the Arbiter suborned, the flow of unattached anima was shifted to the Maw - and this set up Sire Denathrius to make his play to dump the excesses of Revendreth, where the established flow of anima would bring it straight into the Jailer's hands. Sylvanas breaks the Helm and opens the door wide for the Jailer, who now only needs a final thing before he can stride through with his power intact and enact his vengeance on the Eternal Ones (and perhaps all of creation).
    i dont disagree. my issue is. Man seems totally unprepared. like we literally smash land into his plane of existence. Kick ass, and "luckily get out". I mean I can afford him the benefit of doubt that he didnt expect us getting away using the waystone.

    BUT

    now on a daily basis we get into his area, smash his pawns to bits, and walk out. Not to mention helping his captives escape.

    It just seems......so ill planned for a being that needed all these measures and powers to chain and keep in check. And is now further missing his target.

    like heck. he made a hole in the sky, but yet is unable to walk through it because Anduin says "NO IM NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO YOUR THESIS SYLVANAS!"
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  18. #58
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    i dont disagree. my issue is. Man seems totally unprepared. like we literally smash land into his plane of existence. Kick ass, and "luckily get out". I mean I can afford him the benefit of doubt that he didnt expect us getting away using the waystone.

    BUT

    now on a daily basis we get into his area, smash his pawns to bits, and walk out. Not to mention helping his captives escape.

    It just seems......so ill planned for a being that needed all these measures and powers to chain and keep in check. And is now further missing his target.

    like heck. he made a hole in the sky, but yet is unable to walk through it because Anduin says "NO IM NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO YOUR THESIS SYLVANAS!"
    According to the faction leaders, the size of the Jailer's forces in the Maw exceeds that of the Legion at its height, so even our daily escapades in the Maw probably aren't doing much damage at the end of the day, especially since our ability to remain in the Maw is a limited one as extended time there invokes the Eye of the Jailer, who will eventually kill us when he notices our presence. At the end of the day we're more like an annoying mosquito buzzing about in his realm, and eventually he smacks us down if we annoy him too much.

    Obviously this calculus will eventually change when we likely discover a lever or MacGuffin that allows us to truly become a threat. I would agree it's a mistake on the Jailer's part to allow us to move about mostly unchallenged in his realm - but it's at least an understandable mistake coming from a being that likely views mortals as insignificant in the greater scheme of things.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  19. #59
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Your Mommy View Post
    I really want to know what that is
    Anduin.

    /10chars

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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    You aren't familiar with how forums work eh?
    No, i'm well aware. That's kinda the point, you're not so much inviting speculation as just throwing out random guesses and then complaining about the results of your own assumptions not making sense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Obviously this calculus will eventually change when we likely discover a lever or MacGuffin that allows us to truly become a threat. I would agree it's a mistake on the Jailer's part to allow us to move about mostly unchallenged in his realm - but it's at least an understandable mistake coming from a being that likely views mortals as insignificant in the greater scheme of things.
    For all we know, he may well be right as of now. So far our interference doesn't seem to have fazed him or noticeably affected his plan.

    That McGuffin could even just be knowledge, allowing us to understand how to actually hinder things, rather than just hacking at the parts sticking out and hoping it does something.

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