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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    It was not me who claimed he wants to invade.

    Also my covenant campaign has literally NOTHING to do with the Jailor at all, at least up until now.
    Even Night Fae is linked to the Jailer through Mueh'zala. It's a comparatively minor part in their campaign, but they still have one.

    Also remember that the Heart of the Forest is what keeps him in the Maw. Even if the Drust are just opportunistic, they're still a relevant threat to the Jailer situation.

  2. #82
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Again we already explained it to you, the veil between the realms of death and life needed to be shattered so that the jailor could escape his bonds banishing him to the maw.
    i get that. im saying its crazy how....unprepared he seems after so much planning? heck he even has sylvanas on his side, she could have told him "listen bro. i know you have been here a while and you are really ticked off with the brown and black decor arrangements. but these guys that you keep calling MoRtAlS, are a bit more than a generic nuisance because of x, y and z reasons".

    but beyond that. my question is, why here? I know the man wants to come to azeroth, hes even said it "death comes for the soul of your world". sure thats preeeeeeettty clear. But, why try to kidnap the leaders? Whats he looking for? And as I said in the initial post, if it was something one of the leaders had, well technically his plan failed from the start if tyrande had it cuz she got away, BUT LUCKILY for him, it looks like its ANDUIN!!! but....for someone thats been twirling the knobs and planning this out for a very long time, leaving that to a stroke of luck right when he winds up to bring the hammer down seems, as i said, kinda shoddy.

    (or who knows, maybe sylvanas is the good guy after all and fed him incorrect info, prematurely opening the portal to SL and pissing us off so we can go kill him. Like she convinced him that hes ready, but hes not actually read?) - i wanted to put an /s after this but im not so sure anymore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    According to the faction leaders, the size of the Jailer's forces in the Maw exceeds that of the Legion at its height, so even our daily escapades in the Maw probably aren't doing much damage at the end of the day, especially since our ability to remain in the Maw is a limited one as extended time there invokes the Eye of the Jailer, who will eventually kill us when he notices our presence. At the end of the day we're more like an annoying mosquito buzzing about in his realm, and eventually he smacks us down if we annoy him too much.

    Obviously this calculus will eventually change when we likely discover a lever or MacGuffin that allows us to truly become a threat. I would agree it's a mistake on the Jailer's part to allow us to move about mostly unchallenged in his realm - but it's at least an understandable mistake coming from a being that likely views mortals as insignificant in the greater scheme of things.
    that kinda makes sense. i mean literally anyone who dies across any realm so long as (as far as we know) they arent tentacly or greeny are getting crunch time in the maw. So his army is growing every day and is massive. But for all the previous villains who did the "pathetic mortal" thing, it hasnt really worked out for them. Now of course, its kind of his first time seeing us so I can afford him the benefit of doubt how much damage an angry gnome, an addict elf and a human brimming with potential can do, BUT SYLVANAS KNOWS! shes seen it all! Seen how these dumb ass adventurers went from killing kobolds to traveling time, smacking void entities and literal titans in search of orange items.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  3. #83
    Because it would look cool and shocking for a cinematic.

  4. #84
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    that kinda makes sense. i mean literally anyone who dies across any realm so long as (as far as we know) they arent tentacly or greeny are getting crunch time in the maw. So his army is growing every day and is massive. But for all the previous villains who did the "pathetic mortal" thing, it hasnt really worked out for them. Now of course, its kind of his first time seeing us so I can afford him the benefit of doubt how much damage an angry gnome, an addict elf and a human brimming with potential can do, BUT SYLVANAS KNOWS! shes seen it all! Seen how these dumb ass adventurers went from killing kobolds to traveling time, smacking void entities and literal titans in search of orange items.
    While I agree the "pathetic mortal" bit is an exceedingly tired trope, it is something of a staple for WoW stretching back to its earliest days - at this point it's kind of taken as kind of a signature of sorts. Sylvanas herself is as arrogant and proud as the day is long, to a degree that might be called pathological, so that at least scans that as she considers the Jailer "above" her, and she is "above" the Champion/Maw Walker, then we are as a whole insignificant to their plotting.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  5. #85
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    The point was shattering the sky so the Maw could invade Azeroth.

    I'm quite sure the next raid tier (9.1) will be on Azeroth, repelling the Scourge and Maw forces.
    then why we had to open a portal with the piece to go there? it would be just fly to the whole in the sky and go there?

    this seems like another sword of sargeras/burning of teldrasill, that was made to be shock value, not saying it don't have a reason, but it seems funky, i do hope maw forces go storming azeroth at least for a bit

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by bdna View Post
    Man, the story in Shadowlands makes me very sad. It reads like an terrible fanfic, let me elaborate on that. It seems like WoW has been taken over by some people who are super jealous of the old Warcraft team, so they made an expansion that changes (or expands) everything for - in their opinion - better:

    1) Remember the scourge? They were cool, with their plagues and skeletons and necromancers and stuff. Well, in SL you meet the REAL source of necromantic magic, were the REAL power is. The things you've seen in the past are just pale imitations of our new faction.
    2) Remember how cool the Night Elves were? With their tree houses and forest buildings and nature powers? Well, in SL you meed the REAL source of this forest shit, were the REAL power is...
    3) Remember the Lich King? Well, in SL you meet the REAL power behind the Helm, this Jailer dude...

    More examples can be found if you look hard enough. Of course that WoW story was never that great but making an expac with better, and stronger, and more important characters than the old ones we loved seems like a new low for the blizzard story team. Now we just need to wait for the Sylvanas redemption arc that will put the final nail in the coffin for the Warcraft lore.
    Can relate to that.

    "Remember that epic expansion Wrath of The Lich King everyone keeps talking about? Well it was scam, a ruse, a charade! The dude was just a puppet! You liked and were hyped for that fake crap!"

    It's as if WoW story writers are the ones from Star Wars Episode VIII – The Last Jedi

  7. #87
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    While I agree the "pathetic mortal" bit is an exceedingly tired trope, it is something of a staple for WoW stretching back to its earliest days - at this point it's kind of taken as kind of a signature of sorts. Sylvanas herself is as arrogant and proud as the day is long, to a degree that might be called pathological, so that at least scans that as she considers the Jailer "above" her, and she is "above" the Champion/Maw Walker, then we are as a whole insignificant to their plotting.
    HOW DARE YOU!

    Shes working so hard to free us! have some shame!
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  8. #88
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    HOW DARE YOU!

    Shes working so hard to free us! have some shame!
    If you ever have questions about whether or not you're on the right side you typically only need to take a close look at your peers - if they happen to be a damned being exiled to WoW hell for crimes against reality and the army of enslaved and horrifically tortured souls they've gathered, well, you may want to reassess where your goals have taken you.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  9. #89
    Didn't the "Jailer" (god, this character is so stupid) needed the helm shattered to create a way to claim the World Soul of Azeroth?
    And I don't understand the rant in the rest of your post. I mean, I literally don't understand what you want to convey OP

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by SirFinlot View Post
    Can relate to that.

    "Remember that epic expansion Wrath of The Lich King everyone keeps talking about? Well it was scam, a ruse, a charade! The dude was just a puppet! You liked and were hyped for that fake crap!"

    It's as if WoW story writers are the ones from Star Wars Episode VIII – The Last Jedi
    Shadowlands changes nothing about the story of WotLK though.
    His danger, motivation and actions are still the same.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by bdna View Post
    Man, the story in Shadowlands makes me very sad. It reads like an terrible fanfic, let me elaborate on that. It seems like WoW has been taken over by some people who are super jealous of the old Warcraft team, so they made an expansion that changes (or expands) everything for - in their opinion - better:

    1) Remember the scourge? They were cool, with their plagues and skeletons and necromancers and stuff. Well, in SL you meet the REAL source of necromantic magic, were the REAL power is. The things you've seen in the past are just pale imitations of our new faction.
    2) Remember how cool the Night Elves were? With their tree houses and forest buildings and nature powers? Well, in SL you meed the REAL source of this forest shit, were the REAL power is...
    3) Remember the Lich King? Well, in SL you meet the REAL power behind the Helm, this Jailer dude...

    More examples can be found if you look hard enough. Of course that WoW story was never that great but making an expac with better, and stronger, and more important characters than the old ones we loved seems like a new low for the blizzard story team. Now we just need to wait for the Sylvanas redemption arc that will put the final nail in the coffin for the Warcraft lore.
    Mostly I agree. The lore behind WoW has been going in circles ever since WoD. Rehashed characters, character X goes on an emotional rollercoaster, we kill character X, big threat appears, we champions need to save the world!, world is saved.. for now. Go back to rehashing characters.

    Feels like it was written by a menopausal woman who looks fondly back into her high school days.

  12. #92
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    The Jailer already had a plan set in motion.

    According to Devos, "we would have never learnt of this calamity" had Uther just gotten rid (if he could have) of his memories, which means PRIOR to WOTLK, his plan was in motion.

    Fast forward a few years and we land smack dab into Shadowlands.

    But going through the storyline, Revendreth anima would have been forced into the Maw anyway. Denathrius and his plan for the drought would have happened anyway.

    The only thing we have changed is stopping them.
    (holy crap does this mean Sylvanas is a good person? /s)

    Obviously, every thing that is imprisoned wants to break out. So the jailer having a plan is not the issue, thats normal. My point is. What the hell does the helm even do, besides taking Azerothian leaders hostage and getting the PC some sick ass loot?

    The only thing the Jailer has really gained, is Anduin for a supposed weapon. but in the hell does a being that is so damn powerful that it takes 4 additional beings of similar power to keep chained away, NEED WITH ANDUIN.

    like really, what if Garrosh, back in MoP thought, "no you little shit, breaking the bell on your ass is not enough" walks over and slams gorehowl into his head, what then? I mean hes going to break out anyway as per Denathrius and the machine of death being broken. So why break the helm in anticipation of making a weapon out of Anduin. And possible invite people like Gnomercy the fury warrior, xSephirothx the blood elf paladin and XLegolazX the night elf hunter into your house to farm purples. You are gonna break out anyway. Why add this variable?
    You're asking questions that are way too deep for current Blizzard writers, please be nice.
    "For Teldrassil."
    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  13. #93
    You saw the videos about their "weapon"? It is obviously vital for their plans and to get their weapon (Anduin) they had to shatter their veil. I assume, they needed him alive, and not dead.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    So the horde and alliance that defeated the legion, old gods and titans could also disrupt his plan? The last time we made a big hole in the sky we jailed fucking Sargeras.
    There's always a bigger fish.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    the armor was never really special, it was just to help nerzhul hold his form, really the helmet was like literally the only fucking part that really had power.
    except it was, until it was retconned. the helmet was PART OF THE ARMOR. it wasnt 2 different things.
    but as i said, in current lore, one might as well forget it ever existed. just yet another forgotten casualty of the writing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post

    It's an enormous red explosion of anima.

    We have only one area with red anima.

    We know Denathrius was stockpiling the stuff in prep for his betrayal to the Maw.

    We know that he'd be willing to do it, whether it be a knot of anima or just a big pile of twisted up ready to explode souls (if you're not a vampy boy they cover that if you draw the anima too much from a soul or push the sins of other souls upon one that it'll become overloaded and a danger to everything around it or that deals with it.)

    8.1 will roll around and the Arbiter will wake up.
    i mean, yeah, they can do it that way, obviously.
    it would just suck enormously.
    yet another case of "forced mystery that actually isnt one" bc blizz knew, if they revealed it from the start, the players would knew from the start how boring and lame the story is
    Last edited by Houle; 2021-01-12 at 05:29 PM.
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  16. #96
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    except it was, until it was retconned. the helmet was PART OF THE ARMOR. it wasnt 2 different things.
    but as i said, in current lore, one might as well forget it ever existed. just yet another forgotten casualty of the writing.
    Not really, no. The Ner'zhul incarnation of the Lich King originally possessed three implements: the runeblade Frostmourne, the Helm of Domination, and the Plate of the Damned. These three things were always enumerated separately and were distinct. The Plate of the Damned was essentially rendered non-canon at some point, though it may be the armor that Arthas wears as a Death Knight (the current lore is unclear on that score), but the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne were of course retained as separate and distinct artifacts of the Lich King.

    Notably, Bolvar didn't need either the Plate of the Damned or even Frostmourne to become the next Lich King after Arthas' death - he only needed to don the Helm to assume the mantle.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  17. #97
    Banned FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    except it was, until it was retconned. the helmet was PART OF THE ARMOR. it wasnt 2 different things.
    but as i said, in current lore, one might as well forget it ever existed. just yet another forgotten casualty of the writing.

    - - - Updated - - -


    i mean, yeah, they can do it that way, obviously.
    it would just suck enormously.
    yet another case of "forced mystery that actually isnt one" bc blizz knew, if they revealed it from the start, the players would knew from the start how boring and lame the story is
    No, it never was, even in warcraft 3 he just three away the rest and only kept the helmet. The rest of it was never really important.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    But this is wrong, they send reports back to the leaders of the Alliance and Horde. And as the person I quoted to said, there's multiple questchains that send you to Azeroth from the Shadowlands, such as the Kyrians and Ben Howell.
    Ben Howell was us witnessing a past event, not sending us back to Azeroth to be fair

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by bdna View Post
    Man, the story in Shadowlands makes me very sad. It reads like an terrible fanfic, let me elaborate on that. It seems like WoW has been taken over by some people who are super jealous of the old Warcraft team, so they made an expansion that changes (or expands) everything for - in their opinion - better:

    1) Remember the scourge? They were cool, with their plagues and skeletons and necromancers and stuff. Well, in SL you meet the REAL source of necromantic magic, were the REAL power is. The things you've seen in the past are just pale imitations of our new faction.
    2) Remember how cool the Night Elves were? With their tree houses and forest buildings and nature powers? Well, in SL you meed the REAL source of this forest shit, were the REAL power is...
    3) Remember the Lich King? Well, in SL you meet the REAL power behind the Helm, this Jailer dude...

    More examples can be found if you look hard enough. Of course that WoW story was never that great but making an expac with better, and stronger, and more important characters than the old ones we loved seems like a new low for the blizzard story team. Now we just need to wait for the Sylvanas redemption arc that will put the final nail in the coffin for the Warcraft lore.
    The current warcraft writing team suffers from a very oversized ego,that's very obvious when you listen to Danuser talking about the story.
    They are convinced that they're better than those who came before,and that's why they're always trying to rewrite everything that's there,as if to one up the previous writers.
    In truth,they're really not that good,and their way of handling the story is as obvious as it's predictable

  20. #100
    Arthus was thrown into the maw yet we haven't seen any sign of him yet. Keep wondering if he'll play a part in an upcoming patch. Surprised we haven't seen him recovered by the jailer. I am sure Sylvannas would enjoy seeing Arthas again.

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