Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,225
    Not sure what race they can be but from the text alone, it does say anything about predating trolls. It can be a race that predates them but we just don’t know. For all we know that the was a primitive race that evolved into two (via different means). One led to evolve into trolls while another could be the one that the text refers to and eventually became extinct via any number of ways. Some have said that perhaps that same race could have been the same race Bwonsamdi was from.

  2. #22
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    7,345
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Interesting developments...
    Interesting indeed. See, this is the kind of lore bits I'm absolutely a sucker for, especially when it comes to Trolls. Now dat be an amazin' story mon
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    3,638
    Considering Bwonsamdi has dealing with Brokers and who knows what else beyond Azeroth, this quest text may simply infer to beings from other planets besides Azeroth, not just the precursors of trolls
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Maybe, the Winter Queen specifically states she doesn't completely understand what Vol'jin is. He is still a mortal soul, but its infused with Loa energies. She says he is welcome to "rest" in Ardenweald, but doesn't know what if anything will happen to him.
    Going from simplistic wow writing, he will likely just be reborn as the new Loa of Kings. But maybe they'll throw us a curveball.

    There is also the "tied" to Azeroth aspect, so its possible Azeroth is the one who is pulling the strings.
    Does she say this before anything special happens to him in Shadowlands?

    I just hope they do explain what happened to him in the first place and dont just leave it at him taking Rezan's essence. I need to watch more of the Nightfae story :/

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    Personally I hope the Trolls are Azeroth's sole indigenous humanoid species and not the result of cosmic and/or deific forces meddling with life. It would be nice if they kept one thing simple in that regard.
    While I agree, aren't Tauren also an indigenous humanoid species? Or have we found they've been created by something?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Does she say this before anything special happens to him in Shadowlands?

    I just hope they do explain what happened to him in the first place and dont just leave it at him taking Rezan's essence. I need to watch more of the Nightfae story :/
    Its the 8th chapter of the Night Fae campaign. She'll say it to him at the end of the chapter when you go up to her platform for the final bit of RP. I think Muezhala also mentions something about Voljins strange tie to Azeroth. Supposedly the Jailer wanted his soul specifically, but from the point he died there were issues with keeping track of it because of that link. (I can't remember specifically what he said, it occurs during a strange mini game like event that I had to scroll back through the globals to actually see what was said.)

    Specifically to your question, the Winter Queen doesn't encounter Voljin until after specific events that exposed him to Loa energies. Basically there are 2 odd issues with Voljin.

    The first is the strange connection he has with the living/Azeroth. This was alluded to in BFA, but more confirmed by Muehzala and Voljin dialog.

    The second and more recent is that he has Loa energies in him, but this plays out in SL events. The Winter Queen specifically states that he isn't a Loa and that he is still a regular soul. I feel that the Winter Queen would know what a soul that was "made" a Loa would look like seeing as many of the Loa have origin stories with them just being mortals. So Voljin is not a Loa, but something strange is going on with him.

    A little headcannon but maybe Voljin will be the death equivalent of Magni as a speaker for Azeroth. Seeing as he died and became something else because of Azeroth, this seems a bit similar.

    I'm trying not to spoil anything recent, if anyone feels like I have outside of the main point of the thread, give me a shout and I'll clean it up with tags.
    Last edited by StillMcfuu; 2021-01-11 at 04:38 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Considering Bwonsamdi has dealing with Brokers and who knows what else beyond Azeroth, this quest text may simply infer to beings from other planets besides Azeroth, not just the precursors of trolls
    Very much this. We already know Elune and Goldrinn both had followers on other worlds (Fyzandi and Draenor respectively), so there's no reason to believe that a loa (which we know are essentially just Wild Gods) could not have followers on another planet. While it COULD be a reference to Azeroth, it seems more likely a reference to some other worlds, given how none of the other broker quests I've read were about Azeroth specifically, and we've never seen the brokers on Azeroth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    While I agree, aren't Tauren also an indigenous humanoid species? Or have we found they've been created by something?
    There are a ton. I'm not sure why most people discount the titan-forged just because they were shaped from earth and metal (not dissimilar from orcs, and I've never heard anyone label them as non-indigenous to Draenor), but even discounting them, we have trolls (and offshoots of elves, naga, satyr), tauren, centaur, magnataur, dryads, keepers, furbolgs, gorlocs, murlocs, wolvar, gnolls, tuskarr, proto-goblins, grell, makura (though they seem the least humanoid of these), quillboar, harpies. And this of course are just races classified as "humanoid" since we have plenty of other life originating on Azeroth (elementals, plant creatures like the Ancients, sprites, etc.).

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    Not sure what race they can be but from the text alone, it does say anything about predating trolls. It can be a race that predates them but we just don’t know. For all we know that the was a primitive race that evolved into two (via different means). One led to evolve into trolls while another could be the one that the text refers to and eventually became extinct via any number of ways. Some have said that perhaps that same race could have been the same race Bwonsamdi was from.
    Neither of the new species even need to be extinct for it to be true. For example If proto trolls lived near the well of eternity and the leaders banished its criminals and shit like the Zandalari do eventually the well would evolve the proto trolls into Elves while the banished criminals would eventually evolve into modern day trolls. Proto trolls would now be an extinct species having evolved into two different ones.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Neither of the new species even need to be extinct for it to be true. For example If proto trolls lived near the well of eternity and the leaders banished its criminals and shit like the Zandalari do eventually the well would evolve the proto trolls into Elves while the banished criminals would eventually evolve into modern day trolls. Proto trolls would now be an extinct species having evolved into two different ones.
    You have time-line issues with that:
    The first Troll race were the Zandalari. From it, other Troll species evolved, like the Dark Trolls. The Dark Trolls established themselves near the Well of Eternity and evolved into Night elves. So, Zandalari Trolls predate the Night elves. Therefore, these two races couldn't have come from the same prototype.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    You have time-line issues with that:
    The first Troll race were the Zandalari. From it, other Troll species evolved, like the Dark Trolls. The Dark Trolls established themselves near the Well of Eternity and evolved into Night elves. So, Zandalari Trolls predate the Night elves. Therefore, these two races couldn't have come from the same prototype.

    First I was just giving an example I didn't say it was the truth and second my timeline isn't wrong. Trolls first came into existence and then moved to the Zandalar mountains following some of the loa. The Zandalari then become the first true troll tribe and create a caste system. Some of those get pissed off then split off from them. The fact that their culture changes and they create a caste system(aka you probably wont be breeding with the lower castes) as they get to Zandalar is proof that the Zandalari aren't the original trolls but an evolution of them.

    "At the heart of ancient Kalimdor lay the Well of Eternity, an enormous lake filled with powerful energies. The Well accelerated the cycles of growth and rebirth on the primordial continent, and soon sentient life forms arose from the wilds. The trolls were among the first and most prolific.[4]

    Trolls are one of the oldest species on Azeroth. Before the days of empires such as the Empire of Zul, the shadow hunters were the leaders of small groups of trolls that over time formed small tribes. Over time, as trolls gathered in great cities, their influence was lessened. Despite this, the position is still a highly respected one.[32]

    The early trolls developed an array of superstitious customs. Some practiced cannibalism and warfare, others mystic practices and meditation, and others honed their ties to the dark and powerful form of magic known as voodoo. What all trolls shared was a common religion centered around Kalimdor's Wild Gods, which the trolls worshipped as deities under the name "loa". The troll tribes gathered near the sacred mountain range of Zandalar in southern Kalimdor, where many of the loa dwelt. The lesser tribes built small encampments on Zandalar's slopes, but the most powerful tribe, the Zandalari, claimed the highest peaks and plateaus. There, they built a cluster of shrines that would later come to grow into the temple city of Zuldazar.[4]"

    It makes no sense that ALL the proto trolls would run to the Zandalar mountains to worship some of the loa when not all the loa went there. Plus the Well of Eternity was a source of power and resources. Why would they give all that up? Just to move to some mountains because a group of loa wanted to go there? We also know that the well of eternity makes things more attractive and clearly the trolls are not that attractive. What we do know is that Zanadalari who are the first actual civilization of trolls banishes people for shit so it's likely the original race did as well. It makes more sense that Trolls evolved from the proto trolls who were banished due to taboo things such as incest and murder and what not while the "true" proto trolls would have stayed near the well and eventually evolved into elves.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-01-11 at 06:46 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    First I was just giving an example I didn't say it was the truth and second my timeline isn't wrong. Trolls first came into existence and then moved to the Zandalar mountains following some of the loa. The Zandalari then become the first true troll tribe and create a caste system. Some of those get pissed off then split off from them. The fact that their culture changes and they create a caste system(aka you probably wont be breeding with the lower castes) as they get to Zandalar is proof that the Zandalari aren't the original trolls but an evolution of them.

    "At the heart of ancient Kalimdor lay the Well of Eternity, an enormous lake filled with powerful energies. The Well accelerated the cycles of growth and rebirth on the primordial continent, and soon sentient life forms arose from the wilds. The trolls were among the first and most prolific.[4]

    Trolls are one of the oldest species on Azeroth. Before the days of empires such as the Empire of Zul, the shadow hunters were the leaders of small groups of trolls that over time formed small tribes. Over time, as trolls gathered in great cities, their influence was lessened. Despite this, the position is still a highly respected one.[32]

    The early trolls developed an array of superstitious customs. Some practiced cannibalism and warfare, others mystic practices and meditation, and others honed their ties to the dark and powerful form of magic known as voodoo. What all trolls shared was a common religion centered around Kalimdor's Wild Gods, which the trolls worshipped as deities under the name "loa". The troll tribes gathered near the sacred mountain range of Zandalar in southern Kalimdor, where many of the loa dwelt. The lesser tribes built small encampments on Zandalar's slopes, but the most powerful tribe, the Zandalari, claimed the highest peaks and plateaus. There, they built a cluster of shrines that would later come to grow into the temple city of Zuldazar.[4]"

    It makes no sense that ALL the proto trolls would run to the Zandalar mountains to worship some of the loa when not all the loa went there. Plus the Well of Eternity was a source of power and resources. Why would they give all that up? Just to move to some mountains because a group of loa wanted to go there? We also know that the well of eternity makes things more attractive and clearly the trolls are not that attractive. What we do know is that Zanadalari who are the first actual civilization of trolls banishes people for shit so it's likely the original race did as well. It makes more sense that Trolls evolved from the proto trolls who were banished due to taboo things such as incest and murder and what not while the "true" proto trolls would have stayed near the well and eventually evolved into elves.
    "The Zandalari were the earliest known trolls - the first tribe from which all tribes originated".

    "ancient texts speak of a small faction of dark trolls who broke off from the Amani Empire and founded their own colony in the heart of the dark continent. There, the pioneers discovered the cosmic Well of Eternity, which allegedly transformed them into beings of immense power. Some legends suggested that these troll adventurers became the first night elves, and this was later confirmed by Freya, Cenarius, and the Tribunal of Ages when asked by the legendary explorer, Brann Bronzebeard".

    "After their discovery of the Well of Eternity, the descendants of these dark trolls, now calling themselves "Kaldorei" in their new language, came to power. Despite the trolls' attempts to keep them from expanding their territories, the night elves built a strong empire that expanded rapidly across primordial Kalimdor. Wielding magics never before seen by their ancestors' kin, who remained largely superstitious, the night elves had little trouble demolishing the trolls' twin empires, an act the aqir could not accomplish."

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    "The Zandalari were the earliest known trolls - the first tribe from which all tribes originated".

    "ancient texts speak of a small faction of dark trolls who broke off from the Amani Empire and founded their own colony in the heart of the dark continent. There, the pioneers discovered the cosmic Well of Eternity, which allegedly transformed them into beings of immense power. Some legends suggested that these troll adventurers became the first night elves, and this was later confirmed by Freya, Cenarius, and the Tribunal of Ages when asked by the legendary explorer, Brann Bronzebeard".

    "After their discovery of the Well of Eternity, the descendants of these dark trolls, now calling themselves "Kaldorei" in their new language, came to power. Despite the trolls' attempts to keep them from expanding their territories, the night elves built a strong empire that expanded rapidly across primordial Kalimdor. Wielding magics never before seen by their ancestors' kin, who remained largely superstitious, the night elves had little trouble demolishing the trolls' twin empires, an act the aqir could not accomplish."
    Yes. And I said my example wasn't the truth. I then explained why what we currently know doesn't make sense. The Zandalari only became the Zandalari when they settled in the Zandalari mountains and created a caste system. All the other trolls then told em to fuck off and left. Clearly the modern Zandalari wouldn't be the same as the original trolls that settled there. They lost much of the genetic material of the lower castes and bred with themselves which means they wouldn't look exactly like the original settlers. They are the "original" troll tribe in name only.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-01-11 at 07:24 PM.

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,225
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Neither of the new species even need to be extinct for it to be true. For example If proto trolls lived near the well of eternity and the leaders banished its criminals and shit like the Zandalari do eventually the well would evolve the proto trolls into Elves while the banished criminals would eventually evolve into modern day trolls. Proto trolls would now be an extinct species having evolved into two different ones.
    I agree, it can be anything. Would be interesting to get some more info though.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Yes. And I said my example wasn't the truth. I then explained why what we currently know doesn't make sense. The Zandalari only became the Zandalari when they settled in the Zandalari mountains and created a caste system. All the other trolls then told em to fuck off and left. Clearly the modern Zandalari wouldn't be the same as the original trolls that settled there. They lost much of the genetic material of the lower castes and bred with themselves which means they wouldn't look exactly like the original settlers. They are the "original" troll tribe in name only.
    I didn't say they haven't evolved from a primitive race. I said that Night elves evolving from that same primitive race doesn't add up.

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Maxrokur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Zuldazar
    Posts
    5,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Considering Bwonsamdi has dealing with Brokers and who knows what else beyond Azeroth, this quest text may simply infer to beings from other planets besides Azeroth, not just the precursors of trolls
    I get with this or the brokers not being active in Azeroth believe the Trolls aren't no longer in Azeroth because the current ones are really different from the firsts Trolls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  16. #36
    Possible he's just sassing Trolls

  17. #37
    Warchief Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    De Other Side (Just kidding) Vancouver Island, BC
    Posts
    2,188
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Considering Bwonsamdi has dealing with Brokers and who knows what else beyond Azeroth, this quest text may simply infer to beings from other planets besides Azeroth, not just the precursors of trolls
    Could that also imply that there's also trolls on diffrent planets?

    I see dead people.... Yes, kinda my ting, ya know

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    Could that also imply that there's also trolls on diffrent planets?
    There are wolves on different planets, so I don't see why there couldn't be trolls on other planets. But there's nothing in the quest that implies that the primitive race are trolls, just that the primitive race worshipped Mueh'zala.

  19. #39
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    33,453
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    Could that also imply that there's also trolls on diffrent planets?
    Well, there is whatever Challe is. She appeared to be an Orc on AU Draenor who killed the wife of the Shaman Gar'rok - but when fought she shapeshifts into the form of a Troll at low health. Challe also appears in TBC, also in Nagrand, in her Troll form as the suspicious matron of an orphanage of some kind. It turns out Challe devours creatures to maintain her youth, and may well be killing the children in her care to prolong her own life.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    3,638
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    Could that also imply that there's also trolls on diffrent planets?
    I guess

    Depends on how much Blizzard has lost it
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •