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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    Heart of the forest

    If the heart of the forest the very thing that keeps the Jailer from escaping the maw, why not concentrate his efforts there from the beginning?

  2. #2
    The same reasons why the prisons aren't only cells made with a strong, unbreakable walls.

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    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Lack of access I would imagine. The Heart of the Forest is well-guarded by its attendant Eternal One, but damage to the surrounding system maintaining it accomplishes the goal of taking it offline, as it were.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

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    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Lack of access I would imagine. The Heart of the Forest is well-guarded by its attendant Eternal One, but damage to the surrounding system maintaining it accomplishes the goal of taking it offline, as it were.
    I hear ya, what stops for example all of the fellsworn from attacking it? We're passed that now since their numbers are dwindling and Devos is gone.

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    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    I hear ya, what stops for example all of the fellsworn from attacking it? We're passed that now since their numbers are dwindling and Devos is gone.
    The number of Forsworn who were in on Devos' apprenticeship to the Jailer were minimal, and most of them likely wouldn't take attacking Ardenweald that well (I can see Uther definitively opposing such a tack).
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  6. #6
    One could argue that for an immortal being, being free now or in 2 millenia doesn't change much. So better chose the safest way, even if it means killing it slowly.

  7. #7
    Staging a direct attack would likely rally both Maldraxxus, as the primary defenders of the Shadowlands, and Bastion forces into a combined assault. Since Denathrius wouldn't have been exposed, he likely would've had to provide token support to the allied forces and while he could've potentially sabotaged them from the inside it would've been 3 factions vs 1 and a bit.

    We've not been shown that the Jailer's forces can leave the Maw in force yet. The Mawsworn are the only ones who've left and even then they've only popped up temporarily other areas of the Shadowlands. I'd imagine Azeroth is far easier for them to access, as there's no doubt some level of barrier protecting the other zones from the Jailer while the Mortal planes likely have very little.

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    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt0193 View Post
    Staging a direct attack would likely rally both Maldraxxus, as the primary defenders of the Shadowlands, and Bastion forces into a combined assault. Since Denathrius wouldn't have been exposed, he likely would've had to provide token support to the allied forces and while he could've potentially sabotaged them from the inside it would've been 3 factions vs 1 and a bit.

    We've not been shown that the Jailer's forces can leave the Maw in force yet. The Mawsworn are the only ones who've left and even then they've only popped up temporarily other areas of the Shadowlands. I'd imagine Azeroth is far easier for them to access, as there's no doubt some level of barrier protecting the other zones from the Jailer while the Mortal planes likely have very little.
    So you know the big maldraxus attack they did on bastion which resulted in nothing. They could have done it to Ardenweald directly. Via proxy they can attack.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt0193 View Post
    Staging a direct attack would likely rally both Maldraxxus, as the primary defenders of the Shadowlands, and Bastion forces into a combined assault. Since Denathrius wouldn't have been exposed, he likely would've had to provide token support to the allied forces and while he could've potentially sabotaged them from the inside it would've been 3 factions vs 1 and a bit.

    We've not been shown that the Jailer's forces can leave the Maw in force yet. The Mawsworn are the only ones who've left and even then they've only popped up temporarily other areas of the Shadowlands. I'd imagine Azeroth is far easier for them to access, as there's no doubt some level of barrier protecting the other zones from the Jailer while the Mortal planes likely have very little.
    If they were to get through to and die on azeroth would they be dead dead or do they come back to shadowlands?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    So you know the big maldraxus attack they did on bastion which resulted in nothing. They could have done it to Ardenweald directly. Via proxy they can attack.
    An attack that was only possible due to sabotage from the inside in the first place. Meanwhile, the Winter Queen is focusing all her efforts on protecting the Heart.

    I don't think going into the other realms uninvited is all that easy for significant forces.

  11. #11
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    So you know the big maldraxus attack they did on bastion which resulted in nothing. They could have done it to Ardenweald directly. Via proxy they can attack.
    It didn't really result in nothing, either. It rallied the Seat of the Primus to make amends with Bastion which then led to a coordinated assault on the House of Constructs that resulted in the death of Margrave Gharmal. Hierarchically speaking Ardenweald isn't in as bad of a state as Maldraxxus is, either; the Winter Queen is present and is still in full control of her retinue - the response would've been that much more swift and severe as a result.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  12. #12
    Why assault Ardenweald and risk losing a vast amount of forces when you can literally starve them to death.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    It didn't really result in nothing, either. It rallied the Seat of the Primus to make amends with Bastion which then led to a coordinated assault on the House of Constructs that resulted in the death of Margrave Gharmal. Hierarchically speaking Ardenweald isn't in as bad of a state as Maldraxxus is, either; the Winter Queen is present and is still in full control of her retinue - the response would've been that much more swift and severe as a result.
    They could possibly attack the groves to starve them even further. Then when it's weakened they go for the heart. They also can gain support from the drust.

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    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    They could possibly attack the groves to starve them even further. Then when it's weakened they go for the heart. They also can gain support from the drust.
    No real reason to bother insofar as I see it. The effect of the drought is already doing it's job, and keeping a minimal footprint prevents anyone from being aware that it's the Jailer who's causing all the problems (until it's too late). The Jailer appears to have been trying to execute his schemes without making the Eternal Ones and the Arbiter aware of it, but now that things are in the endgame he can ramp up his presence. I've little doubt he *will* attack the Heart of the Forest more directly in the short term.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    No real reason to bother insofar as I see it. The effect of the drought is already doing it's job, and keeping a minimal footprint prevents anyone from being aware that it's the Jailer who's causing all the problems (until it's too late). The Jailer appears to have been trying to execute his schemes without making the Eternal Ones and the Arbiter aware of it, but now that things are in the endgame he can ramp up his presence. I've little doubt he *will* attack the Heart of the Forest more directly in the short term.
    True, there's also supposed to be a raid in Ardenweald that maybe tied to either directly or indirectly. Some people have said there maybe a possible connection between the Drust and the Jailer. But I personally haven't seen any direct evidence of that yet.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by spdr View Post
    If they were to get through to and die on azeroth would they be dead dead or do they come back to shadowlands?
    I don't think we know yet. We know a soul sent to the Shadowlands that dies again in the Shadowlands is gone for good, but anything else I guess is in limbo. They haven't died in the place that should kill them, but neither would they be brought back there as they're already dead. I guess we'll find out more, it depends whether we see Herald Dalora come back as she's listed as "Defeated" not "Deceased".

  17. #17
    I wonder what importance Ardenweald has for the rest of the Shadowlands to function. It's interesting that it's the only zone which is being negatively affected by the drought. While Anima is lacking basically everywhere, Bastion, Maldraxxus and Revendreth seem to be functioning pretty fine still. Meanwhile grove after grove is withering.

    For me it seems like the Jailer assigned two roles to Denathrius - one to funnel all the Anima into the Maw, and second to weaken Ardenweald (by the lack of Anima). And Bastion and Maldraxxus are just there, insignificant all the same no matter the drought.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    True, there's also supposed to be a raid in Ardenweald that maybe tied to either directly or indirectly. Some people have said there maybe a possible connection between the Drust and the Jailer. But I personally haven't seen any direct evidence of that yet.
    There's an insider for the Nathrezim/Denathrius within the Winter Court as well. We have no idea how old this book is, mind. It could've been written thousands of lifetimes ago and said agent already performed their task and left, they could still be there but it's found in the ruined tower in the Ember Ward and we have no timeframe for when the Naaru invaded Revendreth and scorched the land.

    This insider could lead to the story development of how the raid comes to be.

  19. #19
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    True, there's also supposed to be a raid in Ardenweald that maybe tied to either directly or indirectly. Some people have said there maybe a possible connection between the Drust and the Jailer. But I personally haven't seen any direct evidence of that yet.
    There is no direct evidence of it just yet but the implication is pretty strong - the Drust are possibly just acting as opportunistic predators, but the circumstances and timing of their attack on Ardenweald seems a bit too convenient to be just coincidence.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    I wonder what importance Ardenweald has for the rest of the Shadowlands to function. It's interesting that it's the only zone which is being negatively affected by the drought. While Anima is lacking basically everywhere, Bastion, Maldraxxus and Revendreth seem to be functioning pretty fine still. Meanwhile grove after grove is withering.

    For me it seems like the Jailer assigned two roles to Denathrius - one to funnel all the Anima into the Maw, and second to weaken Ardenweald (by the lack of Anima). And Bastion and Maldraxxus are just there, insignificant all the same no matter the drought.
    The other realms are also hit by the drought, just in different magnitudes and in different areas. In one of the first quests in bastion your companion gets scolded for even activating a mnemis and at the start of SL Kyrians can't ascend and finish their training.

    In Revendreth the people and their wards are squeezed for the last bits of anima they posses, robbing some souls of their chance at redemption and basically destroying them.

    Only Maldraxxus seems to be doing okay-ish, with the drought, but their issues are different and without new recruits/souls to fill their ranks since they all go to the maw, they won't be able to do their job and defend the Shadowlands for long.

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