Now that i have my rank 4, why even do it till next patch? Soul ash will likely be like residuum where they either wipe it every patch or make future upgrades cost so much theres no reason to farm it.
Now that i have my rank 4, why even do it till next patch? Soul ash will likely be like residuum where they either wipe it every patch or make future upgrades cost so much theres no reason to farm it.
Rewards wise I think the base soul ash stuff is good, but I do think the rewards should be more progressive as you make your way through a layer as opposed to being a single payout at the end. Getting through 5 floors only to reach an unkillable boss after spending a not insignificant amount of time in there is a horrendous feeling. I'd rather you get some small amount of soul ash for every floor boss you kill on the way to the final one, even if its lop sided and the final one carries most of the rewards.
The reward structure in twisting corridors feels a mess to me. Why make 8 layers when only 4 have rewards? Why only 4 rewards some of which are super low effort like a title? I don't need power rewards coming from it but they could've put so much more in there.
And that's ignoring that frankly it doesn't feel great as a roguelike / lite. I've sunk so many hours into risk of rain 2 for instance for no rewards or nothing of permanence. Just purely for the fun of it, but torghast really doesn't capture that feeling. It just misses the mark on what makes those games fun imo.
..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.
Yes genius, almost everything is a subjective opinion. That has never been a valid argument against anything. Following that line of thinking all the forums on the internet should be deleted, because everyone is just gonna post their opinions there anyway, and they don't matter according to it.
Offspec? Alts? Different leggos for different situations...such as single target, multi target, old content farming...etc? There's plenty of reasons to get more soul ash.
If you're done with your leggo and you don't need the ash anymore for any other purpose, that's fine as well.
As far as I know, leggos are gonna be a thing throughout SL, so you're gonna need it all the way.
Last edited by Azerate; 2021-01-13 at 04:41 PM.
I think it just needs more interesting core powers to base your build around for the run, and powers that interact with them for OP fun runs.
Like how the Tar Trap/Flare ability is a bit boring and clunky, but if you could power it up (more damage, longer dots, bigger, dots exploding for extra damage on packs, empowers your pets) you could end the run with it being your top damage spell.
A lot of the abilities just feel a bit shit, like who gets excited for 3% extra crit?
In a way the OP is right; all these systems without meaningful rewards are completely optional, and that's great, taken in a vacuum.
But riddle me this, wouldn't it be better to have content that's both fun and rewarding?
Given the actual prices for base items for leggos in AH I doubt that 95% of players will go beyond only having one at level 2max without having to spend real money in tokens.
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No.
Because it’s soloable and has no timer, and the only way to give appeal to it would be giving gear. And not WQ level gear but at least ilvl 200 gear.
That, for Blizzard, is totally out of question. But at least they could add a Vault additional item choice basing on the highest layer you did in Torghast, it would be better than nothing for sure.
I'm up to level 3 on twisting corridors and I am still enjoying it. No reason to rush it all in one day, just going to do a level when I run out of other things to do.
RETH
I am not arguing anything. I am pointing out that you are projecting your opinion onto everyt one like it is fact by saying things like
Everyone will find it refreshing and relaxing.Basically you are saying is that "I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is just a hater with no legitimate reason to hate it. There are legit reasons to hate it and nobody is hating it for the sake of hating it. There is a difference between citing an opinion and the two quotes you made I posted above.Torghast is proof that people will nitpick and hate on anything they possibly can, just for the sake of it. Even if it's literally the best addition to the game for possibly a decade or more.
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That is actually an addition to the BM legendary which already does that. That ability is tailor made for Torghast as the boss doesn't move right away.
That's the problem with tying anything that's just 'meant to be enjoyed' into a Pay-Per-Month MMO that has built its entire game up around Reward-centric mechanics and design. There's always something to grind for, always something to progress or aspire to. This isn't World PVP where people are just left to do whatever they choose in a sandbox, Torghast is an intentionally designed feature.
If something is just 'meant to be enjoyed' then it could be thrown into Darkmoon Island and left to be. Torghast however is designed as late/end game content, and it has no real excuse.
How to fix some of the major issues with Torghast.
1: Rework bosses to be more in line with Rogue-like game bosses. Less raw survivability and pseudo enrage, more dodging, positioning and opportunistic gameplay.
2: More (Interesting) powers. Anima powers lack synergy, I've tried a couple of classes / specs / covenants, and there's very little synnergy between abilities. It feels as if Blizzard looked at class abilities, chose one or two abilities, made powers for them and then called it a day. I want the possibility (Not expectation) to completely break the game. In binding of Isaac, I can go from a one HP pleb with next to no damage, to a literal god if I get the right stuff. Hades, though a little less extreme, also allows for you to feel like the god your character is meant to be.
3: Add cosmetics.
But it doesn't have a lot of replayability.
You may not realize this since you're not big on roguelikes but Torghast isn't a roguelike.
Roguelikes imply that you gain something (even if it is just wisdom or meta-gaming awareness/knowledge) with each attempt.
Torghast doesn't have that.
Roguelikes have build variation that are meaningful, where you could change playstyle to accomodate power gains.
Torghast doesn't have that.
Roguelikes typically start you from nothing and you build up to something.
Torghast doesn't have that, as class/spec/covenant is your starting point.
So if we start from the premise that it isn't a roguelike and shouldn't be compared to one (most roguelikes are procedurally generated and don't use the templating like torghast does, for example), what's actually wrong with torghast?
All builds funnel to the same build, this is the most clear in twisting since you get so much by the end you have near 100% of all abilities. This is the sign of a BAD roguelike. Just check steam reviews where one of the biggest -points complaints for roguelikes is that "every run feels the same."
Likewise when your build fails because you get too many +phantasma, +abilitiesyoudontuse, +mawrat harness and not enough of what you want, you fail. That's ALSO not how all roguelikes work, where in some you could be naked and take no abilities and will enough skill beat everything.
My group constantly wonders: how is this balanced within a floor to floor basis within a layer? It clearly is making assumptions about power gain, but if one floor has 0 elites and the only drops you get are for abilities you don't use/gain much from, the "power gain" on the next floor is meaningless. If the shop RNGs all garbage how do they balance the next floor? Answer: they don't. The difficulty increases somewhat linearly and definitely doesn't care if you have 0 abilities or your perfect drops.
Now compare that to binding of isaac, hades or dead cells: every run can feel extremely different. You even get bursts of godly OPness if you get all the best things. And part of the "just one more run" is that it's actually not common to get the best things. But it feels great when you do!
In every TC I've done, I've gotten to that godly OPness because of my combination. The only difference is when I got it. Every run then becomes "1 shot every mob" at that point. When I don't get that combo, the maps are a slog, I die, can't win, etc.
You cannot possibly defend that this is people's "cup of tea" when it's already been substantially altered because it was very explicitly broken for some combos who couldn't mathematically win, and were just a burden on groups. Were they like "hey torghast is fun, umm, but, quick question, are you going to make it so I can ever win?"
Also, you champion that this is a "good thing for wow" to have zero progression in torghast and "not require it" but again, they waste resources building this out, and if there's no progression (and it's mediocre) why play it? Who objectively enjoys torghast versus, say, alt tabbing and playing a real roguelike? If there's nothing to gain out of torghast are you really saying it's more fun than other options?
Across the board the anecdote i hear from everyone I play wow with is: wow is really fun right now, but there's nothing to do to have the fun. I personally should love torghast but it just isn't compelling. I know they'll change it / tweak it and inevitably add some point to do it, but adding these themed events just for curiosity isn't enough. And again looking at the arc that islands/warfronts/memories took I'm not exactly holding out hope that it's going to be much more than what it is, aside from maybe new themes or something.
I bristle at any argument that "someone enjoys it therefore it's successful." Someone also enjoys huffing glue or banging their hand with a hammer. Horses for courses.
Last edited by frott; 2021-01-13 at 07:05 PM.
If it was intended to be a chore more boring than washing dishes then yeah its working as intended
Honestly wasn’t really any other viable build. I was trying to get more dps but I got bad traits. Build I got has worked on 6 out of 7 floors and would have worked on the 7th if I had gotten more of the powers I targeted.
Of course, you have no idea what I’m talking about since you didn’t see the run... what evidence do you have for blindly assuming that there’s some other way of building that is 100% effective?
And the issue here is there was no “play better and win” scenario. I didn’t get enough good powers and I knew it going to the last boss. I got a lot of “tiger palm does blah...” and, newsflash, brewmaster should never cast tiger palm in torghast - the energy is 15x more valuable spent on vivify.
So the whole thing reduces to:
1. Play for 2.5 hours.
2. If you get a good build, ezwin. I was doing 600k dps on level 4.
3. If you get a bad build, lose hopelessly. I was doing 55k dps on level 7 with the same priority list as I used on level 4.
Last edited by Scrod; 2021-01-13 at 08:20 PM.
I'd agree with this approach.
As much as I like the roguelike aspect of the idea, I think that the design should be more focused on a particular set of standards. RNG is fine and all, but the challenge should be based more on skill and mechanics than pure stats and roles.
The power ups should justify a higher level of skill-based play, and the higher levels challenge the application of those skills.
I think that Torghast should get more rewards; BUT Rewards that make Torghast easier. Ilvl should be on par with World quests (ilvl get increased with higher renown), but gets a huge boost in Torghast.
And Torghast-Gear should be the best Gear for Torghast. So it gets an ilvl boost inside Torghast (and maybe the Maw), and have some pretty strong Set-Bonuses that as said works only for Torghast. For example a Set Bonus that let you keep all Bonuses of the first anima bonus in Torghast every Floor, or gives you automatically one strong bonus when you enter Torghast.
Just make the gear have an unique color so that you can easier distingue them with your normal gear: Maw-Grey for the Itemname for example.
EDIT: and as said above: why not give Torghast one item every week without Torghast-Restrictions inside the vault for example: this would reward them too.