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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
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    Unpopular opinion: Torghast is working as intended and doesn't need more rewards.

    A common argument I see is "Torghast is boring!", or "Torghast should drop more rewards!", even though those players are very conveniently forgetting recent history.

    Blizzard have had a habit in recent expansions of taking their big thing, and whether players like it or not turning it into what they call a "build-around" feature. Don't like Islands? Don't like Garrisons? Don't like AP grinds? Don't like missions tables? Tough shit. You're doing them if you want to progress your character.

    In Shadowlands, Blizzard have wisely backed-off on this philosophy. They've mandated that the currency for legendaries drops from Torghast, but beyond that they've been very fair about keeping it as an optional thing. Don't like it? Don't do it. Nobody is forcing you to do twisting corridors. You're not going to fall behind if you stop doing Torg every week once you have a fully-upgraded leggo. The choice is yours.

    I'm saying this and to be honest, Torghast isn't really my cup of tea. I'm not big on roguelikes. I'm not a huge Diablo fan. But, I can see how for a certain crowd of people Torghast is right up their alley. It has a lot of replayability. My or your "Boring" might be someone else's very entertaining Sunday afternoon.

    About bloody time they try something new and de-couple it from constant rewards. Don't like Torghast? Don't play Torghast. Love Torgast? Enjoy Torghast. It's not going anywhere.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  2. #2
    I'd just like to be able to do it solo, I was hoping for something to be doing when raids and M+ runs were not around.

    If they balanced it a bit better between classes - that's all I'd be asking for.

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  3. #3
    It's fine - I just wish it was actually optional. Too much power involved in the movement speed buff it gives. Love the challenge, but I see people that are unable to do it and feel their pain when they get wrecked by pvp trains that could do it.

  4. #4
    Yeah but what about more cosmetic rewards?

    An ugly ass mount, a toy and a title are not enough.

  5. #5
    sure no rewards. just put in guaranteed anima powers so that im not at floor 15 getting oneshot by trash running around with 30k hp and not a single survivability power.

    runs are either dead halfway through or youre getting so lucky with anima powers that you almost feel sorry for the mobs because you have enough hp and the good dps powers on top.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Yeah but what about more cosmetic rewards?

    An ugly ass mount, a toy and a title are not enough.
    See, you're kind of completely missing my point. It's clearly an intentional choice to not add more rewards.

    Torghast is meant to be enjoyed. If you don't enjoy it, well... No point in forcing players to do it. Problem is we're all too trained from years of RNG and gatcha incentivising un-fun content that we're like a labrat with their brain wired up to an orgasm button. We'll ignore a food dispenser that's right in front of us.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  7. #7
    Torghast is awful in pretty much every way and needs a complete overhaul.

  8. #8
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Torghast is just Blizzard's answer to Legion RNG legendaries shitshow.

    People hated having to hope for the good one and pray to not have the bad legendaries back then.
    If you could go back to Legion and say to a player :

    Hey, what if you don't have to pray for the legendary you want, but choose which one you get next ?
    What if you don't even have to farm random content in the hope of dropping your legendary ?
    What if there was a dungeon you could just do and get your legendary at a set number of runs ?

    People would have lost their mind at such a convenient way back in Legion. But people forget, and ask more, and more, and more.

    Is Torghast a great content ? Nope, not really. But it still the best way I can imagine for a non RNG crafting legendary option. A specific place, with no randomness in the reward but only in the way to it.
    The idea in itself is rather smart. It's just the execution that feel rushed and lacking in the fun department. One can easily see that some convenants have more interesting anima powers than others and it only get worse when you start comparing classes. And the "tileset" variance is very limited which really doesn't help keeping the thing fresh.

    Torghast state is the result of the rush to launch SL (impacted by the Covid obviously), a good idea but very lacking in the execution.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dewd View Post
    sure no rewards. just put in guaranteed anima powers so that im not at floor 15 getting oneshot by trash running around with 30k hp and not a single survivability power.

    runs are either dead halfway through or youre getting so lucky with anima powers that you almost feel sorry for the mobs because you have enough hp and the good dps powers on top.
    Yup. I did layers 1 through 6 using a specific build. When I got to layer 7, I was short a few powers - I knew it, and I was desperately killing everything hoping to get more, but it didn't happen.

    My build depended on an immunity that you get from the moment you enter a floor, so I had one attempt on the final boss. My immunity ran out when he was under 15% health (I was hitting touch of death) and he meleed me for 500k. The end. 2.5 hours wasted. If I had gotten one more decent anima power (either dps or an extra stack of immunity - I was 2 short of what I normally get) - I would have killed him. If I had the combos I'd had on layer 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6, he'd be dead. But on layer 7, I got unlucky.

    That's not fun, it's just RNG.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2021-01-13 at 03:08 AM.

  10. #10
    I can kinda see both sides on this one. putting too much in Torghast stops it feeling like an optional and makes it feel mandatory. but right now it's the opposite extreme, you get a bit of currency that, once you've got your legendary at max rank is useless. there's a few achievements. there's some incredibly low droprate pets. and if you're lucky you get some particularly fun powers along the way. but when you kill the final boss it feels somewhat anticlimatic to get what essentially amounts to an "IOU x% of a legendary upgrade next patch"
    I don't think putting raid level items in there would be a good idea, but what about BoA items to get alts geared up a little quicker, or rep tokens for one of the factions, maybe some transmogs? all those items no longer obtainable, why not throw them as rare drops in Torghast? at least a few random greens or bits of cloth. it's not like we're in danger of getting our bags full in there with maybe 3 grey items in a whole run

  11. #11
    I just wonder about the stigma of any content beyond the very old concept of raids and dungeons being viable or contributing to character progression. There's been dungeons and raids for 20 years. Why is it causing such a trauma to players if new and additional modes are developed?

  12. #12
    There is a middle ground here, which is, I enjoy running Torghast but it feels pointless without new rewards. I like the 1-6 floor run of Torghast, I'm in and out with a bit of fun in a compact period of time. No thank you, I don't need 18 floors of it. But once you get enough Soul Ash to make a legendary or two, it just feels pointless to keep running it. Note how Blizz has finally figured out how to keep people running dungeons well past their life span, just offer people weekly rep gains and anima, and I bet you we will be speed running dungeons for the rest of year. It would be great to find some sort of similar sweet spot with Torghast.

  13. #13
    Got lucky with anima powers in twisting corridors yesterday on layer 8 and beat it last last night. Never doing that again.

  14. #14
    Having no reward means anything optional becomes dead.

    Once you have enough Soul Ash, once you get your mount, theres no point running it.


    Optional content can still have rewards.
    A few hundred anima based on how far you go.
    Rep tokens
    Even some Stygia

    Something to get in return for spending your time there.
    Simply being fun is not enough. You pick the funnest way to progress your character, without progress, your forced to either gimp yourself or do the things you dont want to do first and the fun if you have time.


    I like Torghast, but Im not spending more than 2 runs in there a week.
    I have other things to do.
    If i could make progress on things, (rep, anima, etc) then Ide be in there whenever I have downtime.




    Another issue, since theres essentially a cap to what you get (soul ash once youve got your legendaries, mount from twisting), there will be a steady stream of players not coming back, the onces who 'know what they are doing', the ones who are 'good'. Until in a few months you just have brand new 60s and people who dont know what they are doing as the only people running it anymore.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Torghast is just Blizzard's answer to Legion RNG legendaries shitshow.

    People hated having to hope for the good one and pray to not have the bad legendaries back then.
    If you could go back to Legion and say to a player :

    Hey, what if you don't have to pray for the legendary you want, but choose which one you get next ?
    What if you don't even have to farm random content in the hope of dropping your legendary ?
    What if there was a dungeon you could just do and get your legendary at a set number of runs ?

    People would have lost their mind at such a convenient way back in Legion. But people forget, and ask more, and more, and more.

    Is Torghast a great content ? Nope, not really. But it still the best way I can imagine for a non RNG crafting legendary option. A specific place, with no randomness in the reward but only in the way to it.
    The idea in itself is rather smart. It's just the execution that feel rushed and lacking in the fun department. One can easily see that some convenants have more interesting anima powers than others and it only get worse when you start comparing classes. And the "tileset" variance is very limited which really doesn't help keeping the thing fresh.

    Torghast state is the result of the rush to launch SL (impacted by the Covid obviously), a good idea but very lacking in the execution.
    You're forgetting how casually we obtained legion legendaries. Could have crafted new legendaries without soul ash and thorgast and it wouldnt be different.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    You're forgetting how casually we obtained legion legendaries. Could have crafted new legendaries without soul ash and thorgast and it wouldnt be different.
    The countless people who farmed for weeks/months and still never got the legendary they needed heavily disagree.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    The countless people who farmed for weeks/months and still never got the legendary they needed heavily disagree.
    As someone who didn't get their BiS legendary for MONTHS...this system is so much better

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    A common argument I see is "Torghast is boring!", or "Torghast should drop more rewards!", even though those players are very conveniently forgetting recent history.

    Blizzard have had a habit in recent expansions of taking their big thing, and whether players like it or not turning it into what they call a "build-around" feature. Don't like Islands? Don't like Garrisons? Don't like AP grinds? Don't like missions tables? Tough shit. You're doing them if you want to progress your character.

    In Shadowlands, Blizzard have wisely backed-off on this philosophy. They've mandated that the currency for legendaries drops from Torghast, but beyond that they've been very fair about keeping it as an optional thing. Don't like it? Don't do it. Nobody is forcing you to do twisting corridors. You're not going to fall behind if you stop doing Torg every week once you have a fully-upgraded leggo. The choice is yours.

    I'm saying this and to be honest, Torghast isn't really my cup of tea. I'm not big on roguelikes. I'm not a huge Diablo fan. But, I can see how for a certain crowd of people Torghast is right up their alley. It has a lot of replayability. My or your "Boring" might be someone else's very entertaining Sunday afternoon.

    About bloody time they try something new and de-couple it from constant rewards. Don't like Torghast? Don't play Torghast. Love Torgast? Enjoy Torghast. It's not going anywhere.
    Tl;Dr "I dont like a thing therefore no one else should be allowed to want to enjoy a thing the way they want to"

    take your own advice loot or not, its your choice to do torgast or not. rewards shouldnt force you into something you dont enjoy. its like people all thing they need to obtain every item or their being left out? seems compulsive, or like an addiction .

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticj View Post
    As someone who didn't get their BiS legendary for MONTHS...this system is so much better

    Getting a Legion legendary was exciting though, Shadowlands isnt, its boring.

    However, the intense disapointment at a 'wasted' legendary drop when it wasnt the one you wanted has gone away.

  20. #20
    I don't care if Thorghast will got more loot or rewards ONLY IF Castle Nathria will got single player mode with loot 233 ilvl.

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