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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    That's the straw man that keeps showing its ugly face; the thread wasn't about nostalgia to begin with ^^
    Sure it wasn't. Would you like to buy some oceanfront property in Colorado?

  2. #242
    One thing they should do is with crafting.
    They should use legacy items to craft new items. There is no reason not to.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by ztkraptor View Post
    One thing they should do is with crafting.
    They should use legacy items to craft new items. There is no reason not to.
    That could definitely give crafting some depth and make old world content viable for gathering. That's actually a pretty good idea. Isn't that how FFXIV's crafting system works? I know people that play the game and only focus on their profession.
    "Just flow with the go..." - Rickson Gracie

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    That's the straw man that keeps showing its ugly face; the thread wasn't about nostalgia to begin with ^^
    There is this insistence that experiencing old stuff is only being asked for by older players who have once experienced that content, the idea of new players wanting to check out some of the old fun is out of the question...very interesting logic.

  5. #245
    Do it like destiny does. Once a new expansion releases, all old content is brought up the new power level and drops semi-relevant loot, but the total amount of "good" gear you can get per week is limited. You just choose the content you want to do, do it, and once you've exhausted your chances for "good" loot, you don't feel pressured to do every single fucking raid in the game in one week.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    There is this insistence that experiencing old stuff is only being asked for by older players who have once experienced that content, the idea of new players wanting to check out some of the old fun is out of the question...very interesting logic.
    That's the narcissistic approach of thinking that they're the only ones that matter. When I noticed this, I actually reminded them that a lot of current players, arguably most current players, might not have seen content that was released twelve years ago.

    Unfortunately, they can't take distance from this "if it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work for anyone" mentality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    Do it like destiny does. Once a new expansion releases, all old content is brought up the new power level and drops semi-relevant loot, but the total amount of "good" gear you can get per week is limited. You just choose the content you want to do, do it, and once you've exhausted your chances for "good" loot, you don't feel pressured to do every single fucking raid in the game in one week.
    Great idea! Does this work well in Destiny?
    "Just flow with the go..." - Rickson Gracie

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    That's the narcissistic approach of thinking that they're the only ones that matter. When I noticed this, I actually reminded them that a lot of current players, arguably most current players, might not have seen content that was released twelve years ago.

    Unfortunately, they can't take distance from this "if it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work for anyone" mentality.
    We've been over this: It's not about the idea working. It's about the cost your shitty idea would have in other facets of the game. And the fact that you think it's perfectly okay for the developers to take a leap of faith on this kind of content based entirely on your feelings. You know, as if a multi-billion dollar company like Blizzard doesn't already have its finger on the pulse of what its playerbase wants. "But it's just about the discussion, man" you immediately segue into whenever anybody mentions this. Because lord knows there's so much to talk about that isn't nostalgia when you make it abundantly clear you don't want to be criticized.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    We've been over this: It's not about the idea working. It's about the cost your shitty idea would have in other facets of the game. And the fact that you think it's perfectly okay for the developers to take a leap of faith on this kind of content based entirely on your feelings. You know, as if a multi-billion dollar company like Blizzard doesn't already have its finger on the pulse of what its playerbase wants. "But it's just about the discussion, man" you immediately segue into whenever anybody mentions this. Because lord knows there's so much to talk about that isn't nostalgia when you make it abundantly clear you don't want to be criticized.
    Still here?

    Yes, it's an opinion based on an inkling that suggests it would be interesting for a great deal of people. Just like it's nothing more than a gut-feeling from your part, that it wouldn't.

    Critique is always welcome! Heck, I even welcome your regurgitations of bile.
    "Just flow with the go..." - Rickson Gracie

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    Still here?

    Yes, it's an opinion based on an inkling that suggests it would be interesting for a great deal of people. Just like it's nothing more than a gut-feeling from your part, that it wouldn't.

    Critique is always welcome! Heck, I even welcome your regurgitations of bile.
    Ah, so... your gut feeling is more relevant than my gut feeling because... uh... wait. Hang on. Let me see here.

    Oh. There it is: "Reasons."

    You don't have an argument. That's why its tiresome even communicating with you. I was willing to leave well enough alone but I couldn't resist pointing out the flippant audacity of you completely changing your original argument after 12 pages of people rightfully critiquing you. Then, instead of just admitting you were wrong about the scope of your suggestion, you start pretending that's what you meant the whole time. Cute. It's like a slow moving car crash in the opposite lane... you see it coming from miles off but you can't help but gawk at as it passes by.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2021-01-21 at 11:38 AM.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    Hey guys, I was chatting with a friend about how we thought it was a shame that Wow has a lot of virtually unused content just 'laying around' and I had this idea which we both found very appealing:

    What if Blizzard would split old raids into dungeon-sized wings and turn those wings into full-fledged mythics? Wouldn't that be an amazing way of breathing new life into old content? It would requirer a bit of tuning and if possible a wee 'face lift', but in the end we'd have content that has proven to be great in a smaller form factor! It could also mean the return of dungeon sets (the respective tier sets without the set bonus, of course) and we'd have an influx of content that's fun for the nostalgic player and the new players.

    What do you guys think?
    Or they could just make a system that allows you to buff old gear to current levels. This would mean, you'd have the largest wealth of possible gear! It would also allow the use of interesting different tier set combinations, and so on.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    I'd make them mythic baseline with with scaling for plus and not provide an influx of 30 new dungeons, but start with one or two.

    You really think most players have difficulty with mythic dungeons? I honestly have no idea.
    They have difficulty with dungeons in the sense that they don't know what any mechanics do. On lower level you can ignore most mechanics but on higher levels you cant and it become obvious that most people have no idea what they are doing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Ah, so... your gut feeling is more relevant than my gut feeling because... uh... wait. Hang on. Let me see here.
    That's usually how "gut feelings" work right? You believe in your own. Otherwise it's not really a gut feeling if you don't believe in it :P

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Ah, so... your gut feeling is more relevant than my gut feeling
    Your words, not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I couldn't resist pointing out the flippant audacity of you completely changing your original argument after 12 pages
    Post eight, page one.
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    Maybe not all of it and definitely not all of it right away. They could start with a single wing of a raid, the first three or four bosses in BT for instance.
    "Changing my original argument after 12 pages"... Now that you've been proven wrong, again, maybe you can finally rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    That's usually how "gut feelings" work right? You believe in your own. Otherwise it's not really a gut feeling if you don't believe in it :P
    Sometimes people have difficulty grasping the most elementary concepts. Go figure.

    Quote Originally Posted by VooDsXo View Post
    Or they could just make a system that allows you to buff old gear to current levels. This would mean, you'd have the largest wealth of possible gear! It would also allow the use of interesting different tier set combinations, and so on.
    True, but that only solves one potential problem (and I honestly don't think this really is a problem to begin with): lack of loot variety and/or accessibility.

    I would personally like more varied dungeons and don't care that much about the rewards they carry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    They have difficulty with dungeons in the sense that they don't know what any mechanics do. On lower level you can ignore most mechanics but on higher levels you cant and it become obvious that most people have no idea what they are doing.
    This is true. Though in my experience it's only really a problem in the first few weeks; after that people learn and adapt. Even the people that don't read the dungeon guide adapt in an organic way, if you will.
    Last edited by nocturnus; 2021-01-21 at 12:23 PM.
    "Just flow with the go..." - Rickson Gracie

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    Hey guys, I was chatting with a friend about how we thought it was a shame that Wow has a lot of virtually unused content just 'laying around' and I had this idea which we both found very appealing:

    What if Blizzard would split old raids into dungeon-sized wings and turn those wings into full-fledged mythics? Wouldn't that be an amazing way of breathing new life into old content? It would requirer a bit of tuning and if possible a wee 'face lift', but in the end we'd have content that has proven to be great in a smaller form factor! It could also mean the return of dungeon sets (the respective tier sets without the set bonus, of course) and we'd have an influx of content that's fun for the nostalgic player and the new players.

    What do you guys think?
    I aboslutely agree with you. But don't make it 5 man. But just full-fledged 10man on with dungeon-sized wings. Keep it at normal-heroic-mythic difficulty. That would be perfect indeed.
    By making it into 5 man, it changes everything. You don't work with other tank anymore. Or you work with other healers anymore. That is what makes the raid so appealing. Working as team with every roles.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenjie View Post
    I aboslutely agree with you. But don't make it 5 man. But just full-fledged 10man on with dungeon-sized wings. Keep it at normal-heroic-mythic difficulty. That would be perfect indeed.
    By making it into 5 man, it changes everything. You don't work with other tank anymore. Or you work with other healers anymore. That is what makes the raid so appealing. Working as team with every roles.
    Your suggesting might be better. The 5-man suggestion spawns from a selfish source, being my personal preference. But yeah, if ten man content is popular enough, that would be an awesome start! I'd still prefer more 5-man dungeons and while I don't have any hard date to prove it, I think that's the most popular group PvE content.
    "Just flow with the go..." - Rickson Gracie

  15. #255
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    *snip*
    I'm a casual raider. Bare minimum requirements, and that still translates to doing much more since Legion than it did between WOTLK and WoD. Congratulations on being wrong though.

    That's all I have to say on this inane debate. Pretending that the way in which the content is designed doesn't impact people's gameplay and that it's ALL about choice, is a new level of delusion. The choice is to adapt, which I did and burnt out, or be forced to change how you play due to the decisions made by developers.

    Duh.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2021-01-21 at 12:34 PM.
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  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    This is true. Though in my experience it's only really a problem in the first few weeks; after that people learn and adapt. Even the people that don't read the dungeon guide adapt in an organic way, if you will.
    I bet you that there are many players who played the entirety of BFA and still cant tell what the different trash in Waycrest do.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    I'm a casual raider. Bare minimum requirements, and that still translates to doing much more since Legion than it did between WOTLK and WoD. Congratulations on being wrong though.

    That's all I have to say on this inane debate. Pretending that the way in which the content is designed doesn't impact people's gameplay, is a new level of delusion.
    Who says changing content doesn't impact people's game play? Not me. Changes in content you play, obviously impact the way you play - seems pretty logical.

    What I said is this:

    Those requirements weren't real though... They were artificially implemented by other players. So in the end, it's not the content that's burning you out, it's the idea that you have to do all these things in order to measure yourself to other players with the same mind-set.

    So, no man, I don't agree; it's not the abundance of content that's the culprit. It's the individual person's approach to playing the game.


    Let me know if you don't understand what I mean; I'll reformulate it is so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I bet you that there are many players who played the entirety of BFA and still cant tell what the different trash in Waycrest do.
    I bet most players that aren't tanks can't haha
    "Just flow with the go..." - Rickson Gracie

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    Hey guys, I was chatting with a friend about how we thought it was a shame that Wow has a lot of virtually unused content just 'laying around' and I had this idea which we both found very appealing:

    What if Blizzard would split old raids into dungeon-sized wings and turn those wings into full-fledged mythics? Wouldn't that be an amazing way of breathing new life into old content? It would requirer a bit of tuning and if possible a wee 'face lift', but in the end we'd have content that has proven to be great in a smaller form factor! It could also mean the return of dungeon sets (the respective tier sets without the set bonus, of course) and we'd have an influx of content that's fun for the nostalgic player and the new players.

    What do you guys think?
    They actually kinda try and it's generally met with people being in an uproar. "I can't solo this raid or dungeon for transmog" is the #1 complaint I read.

  19. #259
    The Patient BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    SWTOR was changed from the very core just to accomplish this, yet it did not go very well for them. In the end they became more stale because devs began to think that "old content are relevant enough to not release new content".
    Moderators on this site are, to put it nicely, morons. They believe any opinion contrary to popular ones are either trolling or flaming or baiting. They can not comprehend the fact that there can be people who would utterly detest what they like or million others like. Well, it is their site and their "Authoretaeh" but they are morons nonetheless.

  20. #260
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    Who says changing content doesn't impact people's game play? Not me. Changes in content you play, obviously impact the way you play - seems pretty logical.

    What I said is this:

    Those requirements weren't real though... They were artificially implemented by other players. So in the end, it's not the content that's burning you out, it's the idea that you have to do all these things in order to measure yourself to other players with the same mind-set.

    So, no man, I don't agree; it's not the abundance of content that's the culprit. It's the individual person's approach to playing the game.


    Let me know if you don't understand what I mean; I'll reformulate it is so.


    I bet most players that aren't tanks can't haha
    I understand what you mean just fine, I'm telling you that you're wrong based on personal experience.

    Let me re-iterate: Even in a casual guild meeting the absolute minimum, no insane requirements and rules, there's more prep work to be done post-Legion than there was between WOTLK and WoD. That's not "artificially implemented by players" (lol), that's literally a result of the developer's design choices. Nothing changed in how the player (me) approaches the game, yet I got burnt out during BfA and had to stop raiding in the first tier of SL, something that simply wouldn't have happened prior to Legion.

    Not sure how I can reformulate it so that you'll understand it, but I get the feeling you're not one likely to admit to being wrong in any case. But you are in this one. Speaking as an authority on myself and my approach to this game. The game changed, not me nor the people I play with.

    End of.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2021-01-21 at 02:16 PM.
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