I Hate Borrowed Power

[Santas]

I could make an essay on why, but to keep it short -- it's just too damn good this time around. Many of the SL class abilities are quite lame, but then you have some very fun abilities that work in such harmony with our kits, spells like Abomination Limb, The Hunt, Hallowed Ground and many others. It's not too early or too late to speak about this so please don't bring up silly arguments like that, imagine SL is ending tomorrow and you have to forever say goodbye to these beautiful abilities. Beautiful, another reason I'm so fond of them, because compared to my big old fireball they look way more up-to-date and impressive.

I wouldn't mind it if class abilities of our covenant of choice became permanent. Balance is also a non-issue, provided some of them are tuned down a little. Classes felt stale, they still do to some degree but we desperately need new skills & effects, this much is apparent at this point.

[Relapses]

Legion's Artifact/Legendary system was far more impactful than Covenants and it's gone. You'll live. It's not like borrowed power is a new concept anyway. Classic's Legendaries eventually stopped being relevant. As did TBC's. As did Shadowmourne in WotLK. As did the Legendary Staff and Rogue daggers in Cata. As did the cloak in MoP. As did the ring in WoD. See a pattern here yet?

[fatgunn]

Most likely will be handled like the artifacts were. Some will become baseline, others will be talents, etc.

[huth]

Legion's Artifact/Legendary system was far more impactful than Covenants and it's gone. You'll live. It's not like borrowed power is a new concept anyway. Classic's Legendaries eventually stopped being relevant. As did TBC's. As did Shadowmourne in WotLK. As did the Legendary Staff and Rogue dagers in Cata. As did the cloak in MoP. As did the ring in WoD. See a pattern here yet?

Let's not forget every set bonus ever in WoW.

[LordVargK]

Well, isn't it good that many abilities are boring and some aren't even impactful? You won't miss them when they are gone then. Artifacts and Azerite+essences were MUCH worse than this.

[Qnubi]

Guess it's also a good life lesson:

Absolutely NOTHING lasts forever, everything is borrowed.

[Razion]

You can hate borrowed power, that's fine. But do you hate it more than larger ability pruning passes?

Borrowed power was a solution to the situation we arrived in where those huge ability prunings are done and everyone raises hell over it. I'd much prefer to lose less more regularly than be subject to huge cuts all at once.

[Gestopft]

I don't mind it- it allows systems to stay within expansions and prevent overall systems/abilities bloat. And the most popular abilities and effects often stay in the game afterwards too, so you end up getting to keep some of it anyway.

[Santas]

Legion's artifact system wasn't that much memorable, didn't feel it was going to be either, at least for me and I'm not talking about performance.

You can hate borrowed power, that's fine. But do you hate it more than larger ability pruning passes?

Borrowed power was a solution to the situation we arrived in where those huge ability prunings are done and everyone raises hell over it. I'd much prefer to lose less more regularly than be subject to huge cuts all at once.

That is the only valid comment here and yes, I can see why, the sentiment remains however -- these abilities feel and look amazing and overshadow the way our current ones look for the most part, at the very least (new abilities aside) they should seriously sit down and try to make ability presses more impactful, especially for the long cooldown ones, very few classes have something that makes them feel truly powerful/cool/amazing (insert your own word here). Too bad the guy that created the covenant effects left Blizzard right after he was done.

MMO-Champion...the place where you apparently make blog posts these days.
"I could make a longer post but won't"
"Some things are lame, but some things are fun"

..and a lot of convoluted bla bla bla along the lines of "It's not too early or too late to speak about this so please don't bring up silly arguments like that, imagine SL is ending tomorrow and you have to forever say goodbye to these beautiful abilities. Beautiful, another reason I'm so fond of them, because compared to my big old fireball they look way more up-to-date and impressive."

Thank you for posting while intoxicated.

Thank you for reminding me that you're still as toxic as ever after all these years, Det. it's an amazing feat.

[A Chozo]

imagine SL is ending tomorrow and you have to forever say goodbye to these beautiful abilities.

Noooo I like my Necrolord kit D:

[deenman]

I feel borrowed power is fine as long as its handled better...for example the legion legenderies or bfa corruption or some covenant abilities,they add some very impactful and in the case for some very cool looking stuff,that change your class mechanicaly and rotationaly,and then next expansion...its all gone and you feel incomplete in a much more impactful way than the usual stat reset

I think these systems should more compliment our abilities,not add new ones that alter stuff to much,like for example...an ability that when you crit u leave a dot for x dmg,execute range raised another 5% or 10% etc,stuff like that that dont alter you in extreme ways like a ray of death would,add those cool stuff to classes as base spells that stay with you

[saixilein]

The thing about BPs are, that the Class/Spec is built around them. If the expansions end and all the BPs are gone, many mechanics/talents are useless/weak... And it feels pretty bad, when cool mechanics/talents are gone. And as you see Blizzard feel the same, thats why we get old shit that worked pretty well back in form of legendarys or something. I really like to execute with my arms warrior target above 80% hp, sad that it will be gone next xpac.

I pref the non BPs Classdesigne, just add 2-3 new spells/mechanics to the class and do a slightly or maybe big rework 1-2 Expansions later. There are almost no spec/class that i like today more then in cata/mop. They just made them all worse. The only new spec i enjoy was SV Hunter PvP Only in Legion. All other Specs/Classes were better/much more fun in cata/mop.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Problem is its so predictable now. You get handed like 2-4 things at the start of an expansion and you know its done in the next pre-expansion patch.

[Santas]

Problem is its so predictable now. You get handed like 2-4 things at the start of an expansion and you know its done in the next pre-expansion patch.

Yeah, hence why I used the word stale, I'm not saying that every single spec should get the Shadow Priest Treatment every single expansion, but they have to try harder to.. freshen things up a little. Some classes have looked and played pretty much the same for quite a long time now, they're in such a derelict state that even one new spell effect would do wonders. Obvious hyperbole but you get what I mean.

The thing about BPs are, that the Class/Spec is built around them. If the expansions end and all the BPs are gone, many mechanics/talents are useless/weak... And it feels pretty bad, when cool mechanics/talents are gone. And as you see Blizzard feel the same, thats why we get old shit that worked pretty well back in form of legendarys or something.

I pref the non BPs Classdesigne, just add 2-3 new spells/mechanics to the class and do a slightly or maybe big rework 1-2 Expansions later. There are almost no spec/class that i like today more then in cata/mop. They just made them all worse. The only new spec i enjoy was SV Hunter PvP Only in Legion. All other Specs/Classes were better/much more fun in cata/mop.

My sentiments exactly, another reason I dislike Borrowed Power.

[valax]

At least now they are something that's built on top of a decently working kit , who here remembers leveling classes during legion? Especially leveling druid was fucked beyond imagination because the artifact was the only thing keeping it together.

But anyway yeah , I'd rather them go back to the old way of giving new abilities that would stay going forward , they scrapped that for balancing sake but when they introduce a system that's even more of a headhache to fix I can't think anymore that statement was sincere.
I say they should slowly scrap the least used or very niche talents and scramble the talent trees to make space for the "expansion feature" best abilities, at least they have to balance stuff that is actually fun to play with.

[Swnem]

Yeah... it's gonna suck when they do. That is why i hate borrowed power.

Can you imagine a druid without convoke? A DK without abomination limb? A Paladin without Toll?

I do hope those abilities stick around, but there is no guarantee. It sucks getting attached to an ability for it to just get torn away from you.

Blizzard thinks of WoW as a 2 year game. Players think of it as longer than that. That is why we see this disconnect.

[scelero]

Just wait until the ultimate borrowed power comes for you, LIFE.

[Amariw]

The thing about BPs are, that the Class/Spec is built around them. If the expansions end and all the BPs are gone, many mechanics/talents are useless/weak... And it feels pretty bad, when cool mechanics/talents are gone. And as you see Blizzard feel the same, thats why we get old shit that worked pretty well back in form of legendarys or something. I really like to execute with my arms warrior target above 80% hp, sad that it will be gone next xpac.

I pref the non BPs Classdesigne, just add 2-3 new spells/mechanics to the class and do a slightly or maybe big rework 1-2 Expansions later. There are almost no spec/class that i like today more then in cata/mop. They just made them all worse. The only new spec i enjoy was SV Hunter PvP Only in Legion. All other Specs/Classes were better/much more fun in cata/mop.

Generally agreed just wanna credit blizzard for Legion Affliction Warlock in arenas. In a vacuum it was somewhat worse then mop, but healer changes and spirit removal let you actually play rot and outdmg a healer's mana pool. It was glorious and nothing really equaled it since. MoP class design with Legion pvp templates would be my wet dream.

[Netherling]

Legion's Artifact/Legendary system was far more impactful than Covenants and it's gone. You'll live. It's not like borrowed power is a new concept anyway. Classic's Legendaries eventually stopped being relevant. As did TBC's. As did Shadowmourne in WotLK. As did the Legendary Staff and Rogue daggers in Cata. As did the cloak in MoP. As did the ring in WoD. See a pattern here yet?

The legendaries from previous expansions didn't give abilities though, so it's not quite the same thing.

[Relapses]

The legendaries from previous expansions didn't give abilities though, so it's not quite the same thing.

No -- but each expansion has abilities which are pruned/added in between them. Covenants are a little bit more in-your-face but to me it doesn't seem like it's that big of a difference from what we've experienced in the past.