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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    I'm ok with kiting during necrotic weeks, but I don't want to kite all the time
    What did we have so far?

    One Bolstering week - you need to kite when mobs get highly buffed - only a few seconds if your group is good, way longer is your group is not so good...
    One Necrotic week - The Kiting Week(TM)
    One Sanguine week - Here you want to kite for other reasons than defense, mostly because you don't want melee mobs to die next to ranged mobs
    One raging week - The Kiting Week Reloaded(TM)

    So yeah, we trained our running skills a lot. Add also a lack of gear on top of that as it's first season...

    Tanking is always tricky on 1st seasons, an issue in this game Blizzard was not able to solve yet. But TBH tanking is in a way better state than in BFA S1, which was a total tanking nightmare.
    Last edited by Naville; 2021-01-16 at 08:39 PM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Is this kiting emphasis a new thing, or did it also happen at the start of previous xpacs?
    Its always been a thing and a common strategy, in legion there was a strat my premade of 3 used to use

    mass grip > aoe stun > warlock slow ring > death and decay > vortex knockback > all while staying out of range of the mobs.

    If played correctly the tank could run an entire nl without taking a single bit of damage from trash.

    similar sytem was played in bfa but with a much simpler system with only 2 class (warr/mage)

    aoe stun > aoe fear > mage db > assigned interupts/spell reflect > repeat

    this is the difference between a good and a bad dh tank (currently meta)

    dh A kites and utilises the reason dh is meta - you can go into catform apply some dots, do some ccing, chill its easy, pride so easy, finishing prides with 70% mana and a cd spare.

    dh B stands and eats - you have to spam the crap out of him, cannot stop spamming him using all your cds and burning all your mana, when the pride lands you are oom with no cds, the party gets close to dieing on pride, you look like a horrendous healer that cant handle pride.

    This is the effect a good kiting dh has compared to a bad, ofc the bad will quite easily turn round and blame the healing and there will be weight to his claim to the empty heads, healer is struggling with pride it must be a bad healer, not realising how hard the healer is carrying the bad tank.

  3. #123
    The shift from Tanks prioritizing their DPS to their actual survival I kind of enjoy. It hasn't felt this way to me since TBC, for the longest time I just felt like a melee DPS standing in front as opposed to behind.

    Having to kite when your active mitigation is down doesn't bother me. Almost makes it seem more authentic that the mobs are chasing down something they can actually kill instead of mindless wailing on the tankiest member of your team.

    There are some scenarios though where it seems like you're just running away constantly. HoA comes to mind with those damn dogs.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by xpose View Post
    You're not really tanking if all you do is do some damage then kite.

    "Ya man I can easily tank a +15"

    "Damn how do you do it?"

    "Oh, I run in and do some damage then run around in circles so they can't hit me."

    If kiting is the meta they might as well just buff dps classes armor values and let them "tank"
    I think it's tanking. You go in, blast CD's and hold your ground for as long as you can, then utilize the environment, your party and your own movement abilities to stay safe while waiting for CD's or for nasty buffs to be dispelled from you or trash. It's tools available to you and it's a skill in and of it self to kite things, especially if they're ranged, casters or immune to cc/slow.

    A dps would just be obiterated if they went in head first. As it should be.

    Don't get me wrong, standing still and face tanking everything is surely tanking as well. I just prefere the more active roll of a mix between kiting and face tanking. Then again, I'm a paladin so I can go out and heal me or group members if I want to. I'd imagine a warrior, dh or dk would just run and do close to nothing when kiting?
    Well met!
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    Man even if Blizzard gave players bars of gold, they would complain that they were too heavy.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by spalernTJ View Post
    I enjoy tanking dungeons, I enjoy tanking in general, I always liked being tank in games. I dunno, some people find it fun to blow stuff up, I do main healer, which I think is the most enjoyable. But I absolutely love being an unkillable juggernaut, whenever possible. Sadly, because mythic+ is time based, and I want to play around being beefy, not optimizing routes and damage, I don't play it, even though I really want to.
    Unkillable juggernaut? Well... Not in m+ mate. Tanks are being slapped to death by 4 elites, at least now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    The shift from Tanks prioritizing their DPS to their actual survival I kind of enjoy. It hasn't felt this way to me since TBC, for the longest time I just felt like a melee DPS standing in front as opposed to behind.

    Having to kite when your active mitigation is down doesn't bother me. Almost makes it seem more authentic that the mobs are chasing down something they can actually kill instead of mindless wailing on the tankiest member of your team.

    There are some scenarios though where it seems like you're just running away constantly. HoA comes to mind with those damn dogs.
    Active mitigation for prot paladins - here is 15% physical dmg reduction and unless you are using blessed hammers you need to hit mobs to generate resources.
    Kitting when it's needed - yes. Kitting every second pack in anything above +15 on forty is so damn bad. Mobs litreally hit as hard or even harder than tyra bosses with damn special attacks.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephire View Post
    I think it's tanking. You go in, blast CD's and hold your ground for as long as you can, then utilize the environment, your party and your own movement abilities to stay safe while waiting for CD's or for nasty buffs to be dispelled from you or trash. It's tools available to you and it's a skill in and of it self to kite things, especially if they're ranged, casters or immune to cc/slow.

    A dps would just be obiterated if they went in head first. As it should be.

    Don't get me wrong, standing still and face tanking everything is surely tanking as well. I just prefere the more active roll of a mix between kiting and face tanking. Then again, I'm a paladin so I can go out and heal me or group members if I want to. I'd imagine a warrior, dh or dk would just run and do close to nothing when kiting?
    It's not tanking which is why a lot of tanks are basically not doing M+ right now

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    It's not tanking which is why a lot of tanks are basically not doing M+ right now
    I mean, why isn't it tanking? Your job is to controll adds, which you do by moving, standing still or something inbetween.

    Maybe I don't really know the definition of tanking but to me it is just that, tanking. Why can't both be tanking? Why isn't what I said a form of tanking? I'm just curious in a philosofical sense. I do get that some dislike it and some like it, that's bound to happen.
    Well met!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Man even if Blizzard gave players bars of gold, they would complain that they were too heavy.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    The shift from Tanks prioritizing their DPS to their actual survival I kind of enjoy. It hasn't felt this way to me since TBC, for the longest time I just felt like a melee DPS standing in front as opposed to behind.

    Having to kite when your active mitigation is down doesn't bother me. Almost makes it seem more authentic that the mobs are chasing down something they can actually kill instead of mindless wailing on the tankiest member of your team.

    There are some scenarios though where it seems like you're just running away constantly. HoA comes to mind with those damn dogs.
    Running away constantly aka kiting isn't tanking and it isn't prioing survival it's just the only way to stay alive. Very few if any tanks enjoy it especially coming from bfa s4 when you were stacking versa and able to largely face tank aka actually tank.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    It's not tanking which is why a lot of tanks are basically not doing M+ right now
    by that logic a disc aint a healer beacuse they dps to heal?
    Or is disc fine as long as they cast shadowmend and penance on people only?
    Tanks job is to keep the mobs locked on to him so others can kill them. It's not the way you do it but the end result that shows if its tanking or not.
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  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephire View Post
    I mean, why isn't it tanking? Your job is to controll adds, which you do by moving, standing still or something inbetween.

    Maybe I don't really know the definition of tanking but to me it is just that, tanking. Why can't both be tanking? Why isn't what I said a form of tanking? I'm just curious in a philosofical sense. I do get that some dislike it and some like it, that's bound to happen.
    Tanking is taking the aggro for your party and getting hit in the face in old style aka dnd where monster logic was primary determined based on proximity you couldn't just run away and keep threat or they would turn and bop your rogue. I can "tank" just fine with a veng dh but it isn't fun and it isn't why I liked tanking. The whole idea of a monster staying locked on you while your jump 40 yards away instead of turning smashing the squishy or even running right by the squishes to chase you is nonsense from a thematic perspective. It also feels honestly way way way way easier than actually needing to be in melee rotating cds to fill in gaps in am instead your am basically doesn't matter past about 5 seconds because you sigil get threat bomb a few times and peace out. It's also not like legion where you were kiting like 10 packs while slamming down skysteps which even though I wasn't a fan out if felt way more skillful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
    by that logic a disc aint a healer beacuse they dps to heal?
    Or is disc fine as long as they cast shadowmend and penance on people only?
    Tanks job is to keep the mobs locked on to him so others can kill them. It's not the way you do it but the end result that shows if its tanking or not.
    Healers can dps nothing to do say they can't but tanking in the rpg games where wow and co have their roots was primarily based on proximity logic unless your dm was a dick in which case you found a new game.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
    by that logic a disc aint a healer beacuse they dps to heal?
    Or is disc fine as long as they cast shadowmend and penance on people only?
    Tanks job is to keep the mobs locked on to him so others can kill them. It's not the way you do it but the end result that shows if its tanking or not.
    It already has a term... it's called kiting.
    i'm not tanking when I'm om my mage and kite mobs.

    However, this is very semantic and not sure why it matters if it's tanking or not since it's more about how people feel about the current tanking state.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It already has a term... it's called kiting.
    i'm not tanking when I'm om my mage and kite mobs.

    However, this is very semantic and not sure why it matters if it's tanking or not since it's more about how people feel about the current tanking state.
    Im aware? i was pointing out to him that the way you play when kiting is still tanking.
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  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
    Im aware? i was pointing out to him that the way you play when kiting is still tanking.
    It's not though not by the traditional standard of the term.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    It's not though not by the traditional standard of the term.
    "Tanking" occurs when the unit's intention is to be the one taking in damage (typically by being dangerous or detrimental, or using a game mechanic that forces it to be targeted), and secondly, to ensure that they can survive this damage through sheer health points or mitigation.

    Avoiding dmg = migitation. Kiting = avoiding dmg. stop reading in to stuff to much. just beacuse you don't like the way it's done doesnt make it incorrect.

    Also i've yet had the need to kite on my dk.
    on my dh? sure, but thats how the class works.
    It's all based on difficulty and class.

    You gotta keep in mind that pushing stuff to the limit(both in a game and in real life) you have to exceed the standard norm. You cannot be average joe and insane terry at the same time without doing anything different.


    I for one like m+ tanking atm. gotta stay on my toes constantly. No fun charging in and spamming 4 buttons mindless while watching netflix til next pull.
    Last edited by Sunnydee; 2021-01-18 at 09:06 AM.
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  15. #135
    The only thing I didn't hate abt mythic+ was tanking. This tier made me hate that too.

    So, i only do weekly runs and not even 1 more.
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  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
    "Tanking" occurs when the unit's intention is to be the one taking in damage (typically by being dangerous or detrimental, or using a game mechanic that forces it to be targeted), and secondly, to ensure that they can survive this damage through sheer health points or mitigation.

    Avoiding dmg = migitation. Kiting = avoiding dmg. stop reading in to stuff to much. just beacuse you don't like the way it's done doesnt make it incorrect.

    Also i've yet had the need to kite on my dk.
    It's all based on difficulty and class.

    You gotta keep in mind that pushing stuff to the limit(both in a game and in real life) you have to exceed the standard norm. You cannot be average joe and insane terry at the same time without doing anything different.


    I for one like m+ tanking atm. gotta stay on my toes constantly. No fun charging in and spamming 4 buttons mindless while watching netflix til next pull.
    Look dude I am talking by rpg standards here and you are just wrong. If you run away from mobs as a "tank" in pathfinder they turn around wallop your rogue or if you kite them past the caster line they eat them. A lot of the skill in tanking comes from weaving cds between active mit and dealing with situations without active mit. Now if you were just kiting for like 5 seconds every 40 or so to cover a gap that would be different but mobs right now truck you even with am up. "tanking" sucks right now period. Also if you were mindlessly watching netflix you weren't doing the keys that are now perma kite.

  17. #137
    Meh, it is the same insane hamsterwheel of go go go rush rush rush it was before. No, I dislike trash packs hitting stupidly hard. Gear? Armour? What's that? Run bitch, run. By that logic clothies are also tanking...
    Sometimes I can enjoy it, but mostly the classic tanking is for me. If you want gear in Shadowlands, gotta do the M+, though...
    On a positive side at least in SL tanking is a bit more about survival, not just being another dps who also has to hold aggro, though they may have overtuned that.
    P.S.
    The e-sports influence is obvious and, personally, I dislike it.
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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Look dude I am talking by rpg standards here and you are just wrong. If you run away from mobs as a "tank" in pathfinder they turn around wallop your rogue or if you kite them past the caster line they eat them. A lot of the skill in tanking comes from weaving cds between active mit and dealing with situations without active mit. Now if you were just kiting for like 5 seconds every 40 or so to cover a gap that would be different but mobs right now truck you even with am up. "tanking" sucks right now period. Also if you were mindlessly watching netflix you weren't doing the keys that are now perma kite.
    ohhhh you are talking about ANOTHER game, with different mechanics, under WoW section? In a WoW specific discussion?
    Well then. that's when im just not gonna bother having a debate with you.
    You could make that argument for thousands of things in wow if you compare to other stuff.

    Also tanking doesn't suck right now period. YOU think it sucks right now period. And thats fine, i aint forcing you to tank. But this attitude you put out in a thread about an opinion and trying to claim your opinion is facts.. Eh...
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  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
    ohhhh you are talking about ANOTHER game, with different mechanics, under WoW section? In a WoW specific discussion?
    Well then. that's when im just not gonna bother having a debate with you.
    You could make that argument for thousands of things in wow if you compare to other stuff.

    Also tanking doesn't suck right now period. YOU think it sucks right now period. And thats fine, i aint forcing you to tank. But this attitude you put out in a thread about an opinion and trying to claim your opinion is facts.. Eh...
    Yup WoW has no influence whatsoever from dnd rofl neither does the holy trinity concept that group content is basically built around lols.

    Also tanking does suck right now it's why it's becoming harder and harder to find tanks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
    That's not what we are discussing though is it. You are more than welcome to start a thread regarding the loss of the RPG elements in WoW. But that's not here.
    It literally is though? You are claiming that it's still tanking to just run away when the game wasn't designed that way. Might as well have two mages tanking with blizzard chain kiting it's just dumb

    edit: Also your definition literally says the intent is to be the one tanking damage not the one running away while the mobs logic coding causes it to chase you instead of much on the squishies that are hitting it and much nearer than you.
    Last edited by Xath; 2021-01-18 at 09:23 AM.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephire View Post
    I mean, why isn't it tanking? Your job is to controll adds, which you do by moving, standing still or something inbetween.

    Maybe I don't really know the definition of tanking but to me it is just that, tanking. Why can't both be tanking? Why isn't what I said a form of tanking? I'm just curious in a philosofical sense. I do get that some dislike it and some like it, that's bound to happen.
    Because the definition of "tanking" is to take the hits so the group doesn't have to.

    If you are not taking hits, or can only take the hits of a single pack, you may as well be a frost mage. Yeah, you CAN kite mobs, and as long as they never reach you, you'll never die, but nobody would ever call that frost mage a tank, nor what it is doing "tanking."

    Tanks take hits. If you aren't taking hits, you're not a tank. If you CAN'T take hits, you're DEFINITELY not a tank. If the meta is built around kiting mobs instead of tanking them, then the meta is built around not having a tank.
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