In m+ you get ilvl 210, plus ONE 226 per week. If you do halfway decent raiding, you get probably 1-2 ilvl213 items per week, for way WAY easier content. Yeah, sure, after 3 months you don't need to raid any more, but in the first few weeks, the ilvl of heroic/mythic raids is always better than everything from M+, except the 1 vault item per week. Aside from the fact that raid trinkets are just better and even higher ilvl.
It's 6 weeks into the season. Many high level players have 0% chance of getting upgrades from M+, except for the vault. That's the problem when M+ is capped at a lower ilvl than *heroic* raid...
All I know is that one of my friends who is doing only pvp has EIGHT ilvl 226 items and an average ilvl of 216, and I'm doing no pvp, only m+ and heroic raid, and I'm several ilvls lower. If my friend would be raiding/m+ *just a little bit* in addition to PvP, I'm sure he wouldn't have FIVE ilvl 197/200 items, and would probably be at >220 average item level.
Please tell me again how bad PvP is for gearing, I'm interested.
How fast people forgot how much complain was when the raid was launched on how difficult it is, that even normal raid is more difficult than a +10, and a +10 was not so common back then. This is how I remember people complaining. HC? "Fuck impossible, abilities 1shotting raiders".
And now, sure, after people farmed between 30 and 50 dungeons per week, for the past 4 weeks, HC raid became easy. How convenient.
Just as easy have become the dungeons, the majority of groups in LFD doing 11-12-13's. It's harder to get a spot as a non-meta class, but quite OK to finish.
In M+ you get infinite drops. Full 210 in a week plus a 226. You don't get 226 in raiding unless you are doing mythic. On average it takes a player 9 weeks to fully gear to 213 in heroic raiding including the vault. In the same time you will have up to 9 pieces of 226 just by doing an easy m+. Proof that M+ is more profitable.
Thinking a M+ player deserves to have heroic raid gear let alone mythic raid gear at all is laughable. This point about players not needing gear after 6 weeks of mythic + reinforces my point of mythic + being more rewarding than raiding. Thank you.
Read again. PvP for the points and PvE for the gear. It's a very simple concept that was spelled out for the less educated people.
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There is this new system where if you complete 1 m+ dungeon you are guaranteed loot that is usually a full tier above the loot available in the dungeon. I welcome new players and I recommend you go to wowhead.com because they are full of guides that are helpful for new players. For starters type in the word "vault" in to the search at the top of the page and you will find info about how to get the guaranteed loot from endgame activities.
You are welcome, new guy.
Have a look at one of my past posts in this thread. I have proven that PvP is not the best way to gear if you raid. PvP for points, PvE for gear.
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Well it is. 15s are a joke and you should be rewarded with 210 from the vault. It is a simple fact that there were tears everywhere when the raid was released. The best guild in the world even rage quit in release day. There were no tears for 15s.
9 weeks to fully gear 213 *including* vault? Are you high? You need to gear 14 slots, minus 1 for legendary, minus 9 from vault. Are you really claiming that you only get 4 items from bosses in 9 weeks?
Sure thing.
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15s might or might not be a joke, but HC raid is still objectively easier. I proved that. (by your logic, simply posting on mmo-c comments is "proof", so there you go)
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To follow up on that, which guild exactly rage quit HC Nathria??
I always find Ion's interviews funny because he keeps seeming to miss the point and keeps saying how "the team" is doing X or Y, when X or Y has been shown not to work. Maybe you need a new team that understands an MMORPG and doesn't try to turn it into Diablo, and one that stops trying to follow through with their shit ideas and actually learns what people want.
This generic "they're really happy" every time causes me involuntary burst of laughter (sometimes nervous), because this phrase, usually to midle or even at the end of expansion, is often reborn into something equivalent of "how wrong we were, but we learn from our mistakes" *facepalm*When it comes to PvP itemization specifically, they're really happy with how that's playing out.
For the record: there is nothing to be happy about it
And about that:
I mean, yeah, something something, but problem here remains same literally - they ditched base, supplied remaining lumps with totally inappropriate bells and whistles, so now they have no even just a moral right to remember something of this nature until foundation is being restored, otherwise Big Bad "Wolf" will come, well, you know how it works, even if some semblance of equilibrium is achieved, which, however, is unlikely, it will be blown away by another unworthy addition. We already talked about something like this here.Balance remains an ongoing focus
ps. When I see stuff like (Legendary Effect) or "Covenants/Soulbind/Conduit" or (PvP Talent) in change~balance logs it only makes me even more firm in my position.
Last edited by Alkizon; 2021-01-21 at 05:05 AM.
Sorry, I won’t feed the troll. You mistyped consciously to have the answer me and many others gave.
There’s NO guaranteed loot for completing M+, there is ONE guaranteed piece per week from the Vault. This is a complete different thing. Now, you can be lucky, do 5 M+ and exit them with 5 pieces or you can be unlucky, do 15 of them and exit with zero loot apart from the 35 anima.
Nice try though, keep up the good work my little friend.
Consider the full picture.
Honor gear used to be better than pve gear outside a few pieces(mostly trinkets). Shadowlands design makes general pve gear vastly better than honour gear because its literally same stats +20 ilvl. This is why full conquest matters now and didnt as much before.
In Ion's and the other devs minds problems worth dealing with in wow have to do with dungeons/raids and to a lesser extent pvp for high end players, which is why we always circle back to the crap we have now. Except now it's made worse by their constant fiddling with everything because they can pretend to allow "progress" with level and ilvl and just have the world scale most of it away by turning dials behind the scenes.
I disagree, Everyone has been saying how horrible the conduit system is for months on the beta, and months on live, and the fact that you still CAN NOT change conduits with a tome is beyond stupid, and makes duel speccing actually harder to do, since you have to leave, change your conduits and then get resummoned back.