[TV] WandaVision

[s_bushido]

Sucks that people get a kick out of spoiling stuff for those not looking.

People who go out of their way to spoil things are scum of the earth.

That said, the [spoiler] tags in this thread are a bit silly... No one opening it should have an expectation that the people posting here aren't talking about what happened in the latest episode.

I was kinda hoping for Aaron Johnson

It's still possible he shows up again. But I do prefer it this way. Maybe it's something of a sign that she has at least somewhat taken the advice she was giving her children: to accept what's happened no matter how much it hurts. Magical wish-fulfillment kidnapped town notwithstanding.

[MrMatticus]

The episodes keep getting better.

Baby Vision gave me giggle fits. Seeing his corpse in pieces was a shocker, as was seeing him getting angry. Surprised at the cameo... I was kinda hoping for Aaron Johnson until I saw the back of the head shot, but this could be interesting. Moar! I want moar!

I'm pretty sure that the Fox version of Quicksilver and this episode is how they are going to introduce mutants to the MCU.

[Vegas82]

People who go out of their way to spoil things are scum of the earth.

That said, the [spoiler] tags in this thread are a bit silly... No one opening it should have an expectation that the people posting here aren't talking about what happened in the latest episode.



It's still possible he shows up again. But I do prefer it this way. Maybe it's something of a sign that she has at least somewhat taken the advice she was giving her children: to accept what's happened no matter how much it hurts. Magical wish-fulfillment kidnapped town notwithstanding.

Unless a thread is marked Spoilers it is common courtesy to use the tags.

[eschatological]

Okay, so I got partly spoiled on episode 5 when someone I followed on Twitter last night tweeted "Call Hugh Jackman up..." and then hashtagged it with #WandaVision.

So I decided episode 5 was where I needed to jump in. I was originally going to wait for the whole season.

I loved episodes 1 and 2. I'm an older millenial (born in the early 80s) and those were the kind of shows that were reruns on daytime TV back then when I was growing up. Yet it was still surreal, and amazing uses of color in black and white episodes. Starts with a red blinking light in the toaster commercial (what was that?) and then the more obvious colors - the retroed drone, and Dottie's blood. Two of those three are yet unexplained, which makes me curious to see what Dottie is all about.

Superbly sinister in the first few episodes, which I think too many people are underappreciating. There's a creeping sense of foreboding building in those two episodes which you'll never get if you simply watch shows on your second monitor while playing WoW (a most intensely disliked habit for me as a media junkie). That makes this a primary monitor show for me, IE must-watch.

Loved the chaos of the "real-world episode." More stuff from the re-emergence of people from being Snapped please. Loved the 4:3 ratio and how you watched it widen in real time (IE pretty slowly by film standards) go to widescreen in this episode.

A few questions (never read any of the comics):
1) There are a few edits which are clearly not done by Wanda. The radio bit where AntMan-FBI is talking to her is edited in real time, and it seems clear to me Wanda wasn't doing that. The beekeeper was obviously Wanda, but from Kat Dennings perspective it's a straight cut to them sitting on the couch with Vision and the newborns, as if someone is editing over her rewinding. The editing of Rambeau's ejection might also not be her. There's definitely a larger force at play.

2) Does Wanda going into SWORD to get Vision's body make sense? 5 years passed between IW and Endgame, Wanda didn't get through her grief then? I feel like Hayward's hiding something - but what? Can someone have controlled Wanda into taking the body? Can someone have made her emotions rise to the surface again, and cause this mental anguish? To me that makes me think of psyonic mutants, more than anything else, like Professor X, though I doubt he'd do something like this.

3) Kathryn Hahn's character Agnes definitely seems to think Wanda is in charge, or that she should be appeased. No one here mentioned it, but there's a bit at the beginning of ep5 where something doesn't go "according to script" and she asks if they want to redo the take. Now, some people seem to have a subconscious "bleed-through" of who they are and how helpless their situation is (IE, the doctor's "it's hard to escape," postal worker's "your mom won't let him get too far"), but that seems like some meta-involvement from Agnes there. By the end of the episode, Agnes full out witnesses a conversation between Billy, Tommy and Wanda about brinking the dog back to life and literally asks, "Can you actually do that?" as if she's briefed on Wanda's powers, but is unsure if she's capable of that. Not to mention she's ignored the kids growing up in front of her eyes. She seems to be the only character operating on a "script," and one of the people not yet identified as a real Westview person. Did she kill the dog in the episode??? Because I don't think Wanda would do that in her saccharine-sweet world, and Wanda doesn't seem to expect it, but she turns it into typical 80s "very special episode" moment sitcom material.

4) Man, it's almost like someone else is watching too. Wanda mentions how her brother is far away, and that makes her sad, and suddenly he's on her doorstep. And supposedly not her doing. And re-cast as the Fox X-Men Quicksilver. Someone's "directing" this show. That's fucking great, and I hope this is the tie-in we've all been waiting for. Has anyone noticed any clues in the end credits for the actual WandaVision show? I don't know the universe well enough to know if those names mean anything.

5) Like another poster, I found it weird that they were having a talent show to raise money for the elementary school, and yet we've never seen any kids til the twins. And the weird mantra-esque "For the children" chant - what the fuck is that all about? Is the whole purpose of whoever is manipulating Wanda to get her sons into existence by pushing the Wanda+Vision narrative in her head?

6) Is Vision really a version of himself? Is he in control of himself? Literally at the end of this episode he says "You can't make me do anything" and Wanda seems to disagree, and instantly the credits for the "show" start to roll, as if she's decided to prematurely cut it off. But then he interrupts her, and there's a "post credits" scene, of sorts. Very clever.

[Endus]

It's like you're not even watching.

I'll admit I got the names backwards, but it was a big part of the 4th episode that the cops from inside were saying they were from Eastview when the sign, right there, said Westview.

As for the rest, I'm more convinced than ever after Ep 5 that Wanda's only partially responsible.

Spoiler: 

Wanda said she didn't know how all this started. Maybe that's true, but given that it's immediately followed up by Pietro's appearance, and it being the wrong Pietro, and I think that's real.

Also, the digital "screen" around the Hex didn't look anything like Wanda's powers, until she did whatever she did when she came out and went back in, but that's more of a corruption of something that already existed; if it were her creation, she wouldn't have had to do that.

Things seem out of Wanda's control semi-regularly, despite her clearly being so aware of what's going on that she stormed out of the Hex and told SWORD to fuck off, before going back in. She's not trapped in there, she knows what's happening, and she can have some influence, but a lot of that influence appears subconscious. Like Pietro showing up.

If this is a technological reality warp of some kind, which could explain the hexagon outline and the digital "screen" effect on the border and all that, I can easily see Wanda seizing it to try and use it to rebuild Vision, but not having complete control of the process.

At least the current episode explains why SWORD is actually involved, since we now know Wanda stole Vision's body (which would be under their jurisdiction). Before this, we didn't have any direct connection to explain SWORD being there over, say, SHIELD. Given that SWORD is exclusively focused on AI and robots and the like.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, so I got partly spoiled on episode 5 when someone I followed on Twitter last night tweeted "Call Hugh Jackman up..." and then hashtagged it with #WandaVision.

Trying to watch it earlier myself since I'm avoiding threads and such until I do. Spoilers for a show like this can be brutal. Part of why I'm gonna switch to using collapse tags over spoiler tags, since there's a lot less for people to scroll past if they're avoiding spoilers.

Spoiler: 

2) Does Wanda going into SWORD to get Vision's body make sense? 5 years passed between IW and Endgame, Wanda didn't get through her grief then? I feel like Hayward's hiding something - but what? Can someone have controlled Wanda into taking the body? Can someone have made her emotions rise to the surface again, and cause this mental anguish? To me that makes me think of psyonic mutants, more than anything else, like Professor X, though I doubt he'd do something like this.

If she didn't find out about the Hex or whatever's responsible for it until recently, she may have realized there was a way out of her grief that involved bringing Vision back, rather than accepting his death. I think that was her ENTIRE plan from when she took his body parts, and nearly everything else is the Hex, working off her subconscious. The kids, Pietro, everything. I think she knows what she's doing in terms of all the townsfolk being under her control, but I don't think she's managing the minutiae. I think that's down to whatever's running the Hex. And it/they may have their own motives, and that may be why we got the twins.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

2) Does Wanda going into SWORD to get Vision's body make sense? 5 years passed between IW and Endgame, Wanda didn't get through her grief then? I feel like Hayward's hiding something - but what?

Sure in real time it was 5 years but for Wanda it was instantly. It's been 3 weeks since she was brought back.

[Bryntrollian]

Something I don't see a lot of people talking about is the SWORD renaming (from the comics), and what it means with regards to the show.

Specifically, it went from Sentient World Observation and Response Department, to Sentient Weapon Observation and Response Department. And the director spells it right out to Rambeau; their purpose is to handle robots, AIs, that sort of thing. Sentient weapons, "what it says on the tin", to quote the guy.

Here's the thing; Wanda is not a sentient weapon. She is not a robot. She is not an AI.

Sentient weapon could totally be a human, inhuman or mutant of immense power, and not necessarily an AI or Robot.

Sidenote, Shield was defunct even before the snap in MCU.

[Endus]

Sentient weapon as in a living weapon which could totally be a human, inhuman or mutant of immense power...

They're explicitly clear when they explain it in Ep 4. "Shifted away from manned missions and refocused on robotics, nanotech, AI. Sentient weapons, like it says on the door."

Regardless, as we found out in Ep 5, she took Vision's dead body out of a SWORD lab, and that would DEFINITELY qualify

[eschatological]

Another question:

1) Wanda supposedly broke into SWORD for Vision's body, but doesn't recognize the sword logo that Monica is wearing? Does she not remember going into SWORD? Was she not herself when she broke into SWORD which is why she doesn't recognize it now? She must remember her past life because she remembers her brother and the whole premise is that she wants to be left alone to grieve because she remembers Vision's death, unlike Vision who doesn't seem to remember any of this shit.

[s_bushido]

Unless a thread is marked Spoilers it is common courtesy to use the tags.

Maybe. Just seems ridiculous to have people redacting 90% of their posts. @eschatological or some other mod should really just edit the title now that the show is out and actively being talked about.

Wanda [...] doesn't recognize the sword logo that Monica is wearing?

I don't remember the specific dialogue of the scene, but it could have just been something she was trying to block out. Or something someone else was trying to keep her from remembering. Like what happened with Vision's boss (and his wife) asking them about their lives before they came to town and the circumstances of their arrival there.

[PACOX]

Unlikely to happen but I want to see [baby Legion pop up if they are just going to fold that reality into the the MCU. Which I'm thinking they could pull off at this point without having to do a bunch of origins. Something something Wanda straight up ripped a whole through spacetime (being that she is exhibiting omega mutant powers at this point). I don't have a full theory at the moment, sadly.

[ohwell]

Is he though? Or is it just an imprint? We did see his "dead self" last episode, suggesting that his current personality is simply painted on top of his remains.

You can't say "we" did as it was from her perspective. You could be right you could be wrong. What was shown is either real or her guilt and there's no evidence one way or the other. Much less this week semi confirms it to be that it was just her guilt we were seeing not what was really there, although the SWORD agents could have just been wrong in their assessment.

- - - Updated - - -

Another question:

1) Wanda supposedly broke into SWORD for Vision's body, but doesn't recognize the sword logo that Monica is wearing? Does she not remember going into SWORD? Was she not herself when she broke into SWORD which is why she doesn't recognize it now? She must remember her past life because she remembers her brother and the whole premise is that she wants to be left alone to grieve because she remembers Vision's death, unlike Vision who doesn't seem to remember any of this shit.

I mean this is literally happening within at most weeks of Endgame's final battle, but more than likely only a couple at most four as evidenced by how many days ago what you're describing happened. She probably got spurred on after the conversation with I think Hawkeye and was like where is his body. She was snapped so she's been back only that same amount of time. I never got that she didn't know what it was, just hadn't noticed it(pendant) until that moment or simply didn't care when it was seen on the toy. Only when she was provoked did she seem to really care both by her and then the missile

The question that is more pertinent to answering yours is: How much does the world and the Avengers know about SWORD? Apparently the wiki states it's been around since 1995 which must have been from either some minute detail or outside source but it's on the wiki. So why nothing until now(this is before Spider Man)?

[s_bushido]

Much less this week semi confirms it to be that it was just her guilt we were seeing not what was really there, although the SWORD agents could have just been wrong in their assessment.

Considering Vision's body was in pieces in the SWORD security footage, I think people really need to drop the zombie Vision meme. I think it's pretty clear at this point that he has been repaired/resurrected somehow and what we (and Wanda) saw at the end of that episode was just her baggage about his death coming to the surface.

The only way I could see it being otherwise is if that footage was just a ruse by either the SWORD director or someone else to frame Wanda as a villain in this situation when she's actually not. It is possible that it wasn't actually Vision's body that was shown, since the footage wasn't exactly clear...and it could have been the remains of one of Ultron's puppets that were being studied, or something. But doubt it.

[PACOX]

The question that is more pertinent to answering yours is: How much does the world and the Avengers know about SWORD? Apparently the wiki states it's been around since 1995 which must have been from either some minute detail or outside source but it's on the wiki. So why nothing until now(this is before Spider Man)?

I'm under the impression that the only heroes who would really know about SWORD are those who work close to SHIELD. Wanda definitely not being one of them. So maybe Tony, Cap (Falcon by proxy) , Black Widow, Warmachine.

[Volardelis]

The only way I could see it being otherwise is if that footage was just a ruse by either the SWORD director or someone else to frame Wanda as a villain in this situation when she's actually not. It is possible that it wasn't actually Vision's body that was shown, since the footage wasn't exactly clear...and it could have been the remains of one of Ultron's puppets that were being studied, or something. But doubt it.

Maybe, something like that has happened in the past in the MCU. Mainly when Zemo dressed up as Bucky and bombed the UN building to draw him out of hiding.

On a different topic, I wonder what happened between Monica and Carol. When Carol was brought up over the "who could destroy Thanos easily" conversation between Darcy, Jimmy and Monica, Monica looked hurt and changed the subject quickly. Maybe we will find out in Captain Marvel 2? Something must've happened given Monica's reaction to seeing Carol again in the Captain Marvel film. Could be that Monica is angry at Carol for not being there when her mother got cancer and died during the two years after the snap?

[Nadiru]

Bets on whether the Hex is a multiversal gateway?

[ohwell]

Maybe, something like that has happened in the past in the MCU. Mainly when Zemo dressed up as Bucky and bombed the UN building to draw him out of hiding.

On a different topic, I wonder what happened between Monica and Carol. When Carol was brought up over the "who could destroy Thanos easily" conversation between Darcy, Jimmy and Monica, Monica looked hurt and changed the subject quickly. Maybe we will find out in Captain Marvel 2? Something must've happened given Monica's reaction to seeing Carol again in the Captain Marvel film. Could be that Monica is angry at Carol for not being there when her mother got cancer and died during the two years after the snap?

Theories range from Carol giving Maria(or that's what Monica feels) cancer via something to do with the original movie or her powers and not caring or simply what seems like she didn't care or wasn't there for her mother. I understand the sense of abandonment as she finally got her memories somewhat back and they were like a dynamic duo in her original life and she's still just very unmoved. I mean honestly Maria was one of the only good characters introduced in that movie and she treated her like crap. I actually teared up a little when they met finally again and she had all these fond memories and she's like who the hell are you.

[Zarc]

The latest episode got me thinking about casting Magneto for the MCU, not as Wanda's father but as an ally so that they can found the Brotherhood of Mutants and become interesting and nuanced villains in the MCU.

Magneto can't be a Jewish Holocaust survivor unless he is to be in his 90s though, and I feel that the genocide experience is integral to motivating his approach vis-à-vis humanity in opposition to the one pursued by Xavier. So that got me thinking that they should cast a Vietnamese or Vietnamese American actor as Magneto in the MCU.

Somebody born circa 1960, who could then have the backstory of a survivor of the Cambodian genocide of the late 1970s. Little did I know that a Vietnamese Magneto already exists in the comics in the form of Erik Luu (Earth-1111). So maybe not such a far fetched idea, then?

[PACOX]

The latest episode got me thinking about casting Magneto for the MCU, not as Wanda's father but as an ally so that they can found the Brotherhood of Mutants and become interesting and nuanced villains in the MCU.

Magneto can't be a Jewish Holocaust survivor unless he is to be in his 90s though, and I feel that the genocide experience is integral to motivating his approach vis-à-vis humanity in opposition to the one pursued by Xavier. So that got me thinking that they should cast a Vietnamese or Vietnamese American actor as Magneto in the MCU.

Somebody born circa 1960, who could then have the backstory of a survivor of the Cambodian genocide of the late 1970s. Little did I know that a Vietnamese Magneto already exists in the comics in the form of Erik Luu (Earth-1111). So maybe not such a far fetched idea, then?

Magnetos age wouldn't matter of the mutants are being pulled through some kind of portal.

[Kalontas]

I believe what Wanda told Vision was honest. She doesn't know how it all started. She isn't in control of every townsperson's every waking moment. She didn't "recast Pietro".

She is controlling a lot, but not everything. I believe Mephisto is at play, leading her to manipulate things and corrupt her love for Vision, as he is often known to do.