[TV] WandaVision

[SavoirFaire]

I think it's SUPER clear that the "real villain" created the Hex as a baited trap for magic users.

In that case throw baron mordo’s hat in the ring. He’s got motive from the post credits of dr strange, could tie into dr strange 2, and likely has the power to pull it off. Perhaps the others captured in this are all magic users.

To me that is much more plausible than Mephisto.

[ProphetFlume]

Honestly, I think the Yo'Magic commercial is the easiest one to pin down as really meaningful.

The tagline says everything you need to know;
[spoiler]"Snackin' on Yo'Magic." Snacking on your magic. Whatever created the Hex (still very much of the opinion that Wanda isn't its creator, just the "primary user" who's ostensibly in control) is using that system/device/whatever to literally "eat" Wanda's magic. That's why it lured her in there, and why it's giving her what she wants so she'll stay inside and continue being "eaten". It's even presented as someone stuck on an "island" (the Hex sorta fits the description), and desperately trying to get access to "yo'magic" to survive, and failing. And the shark mascot was someone who was "always hungry", until he "snacked on yo'magic".

I think it's SUPER clear that the "real villain" created the Hex as a baited trap for magic users.

That’s a good theory; I hadn’t thought of the hex being the island. I also think the shark is the one pulling the strings. Can’t decide if shark is some reference to the villain or just implies a predator like how shadow king is considered a parasite. Either way I don’t see it pointing to mephisto.

Maybe yo magic is a double meaning, both as a desire: food for the commercial guy starving, vision for Wanda who’s emotionally drowning, and as...what’s killing them? Is the guy on the island not being able to open the yogurt representing Wanda not being able to get what she wants, which is a happy life with vision, because it’s doomed to fall apart? The guy dying from the yogurt feels super weird cause it’s not as direct as Wanda being leeched while in the hex. Maybe the desire is actually a distraction. The island guy is so obsessed with trying to open the yogurt that he dies without any other attempt at survival. I.e. distract Wanda with vision and she won’t notice she’s dying.

The thing that nags at me is the guy is already on the island before the shark arrives, it doesn’t lure him in or destroy his boat. The island could have the double meaning of the hex and emotional isolation but it feels like 2 different answers. And like House says: it never just happens to be 2 diseases at the same time. There has to be a deeper underlying cause.

Idk wtf Agnes is about. And tbh I think all the hell and demon references are just misleads or references.

[tmamass]

In that case throw baron mordo’s hat in the ring. He’s got motive from the post credits of dr strange, could tie into dr strange 2, and likely has the power to pull it off. Perhaps the others captured in this are all magic users.

To me that is much more plausible than Mephisto.

Especially since Mordo is in the MCU while Mephisto aint.

[Frozenbeef]

Yeah I'm going with Mordo...

Also ties in with the end of credits from doctor strange 1/ him and Wanda being in Doctor Strange 2.

Had a theory it was Dormammu (free to invade without the time stone) until i rewatched it and so the credit scene.

I think Agnus is a red herring as well as Pietro.

Guessing Mordo laid a trap for magic users to lure them in and steal their power and give them what they want. Whether he or she is in control still is up for debate (guessing he is due to the shark)

[ProphetFlume]

That would be amazing. I just rewatched Strange yesterday and lamented we’d probably not see him again for a while, if ever.

[s_bushido]

Are people really convinced that they're going to introduce the actual big bad out of nowhere 7 episodes into a 9 episode season?

I don't know... That seems to me like it would be either entirely too convenient, or entirely too jarring to introduce some mysterious cosmic-level force who just happens to be pulling all these strings, that hasn't even been hinted at yet (beyond maybe an offhand comment about Wanda's kids). Even Rambeau's scientist friend, whoever that ends up being, has had some set-up.

I think people are way too quick to dismiss Agnes as just a red herring. She's had an awful lot of screentime (including in those spoof intro credits) for just another victim of the hex.

[cyberglum]

It's Nightmare, I betcha.

[Endus]

I cannot possibly get behind Mordo as the villain. Mordo was way too up-front and by-the-book. He'd want to stick three feet of steel through Wanda's head if he thought she was abusing magic, but all this? The enslavement of an entire town's worth of people? Can't believe he'd do that. His entire issue with Strange was that Strange wasn't orderly enough. Mordo was the Lawful Neutral prig of a Paladin who was antithetical to Strange's CG Rogue (classes chosen for personality, not abilities). He's gonna be an antagonist, for sure, but he's not what I'd call a "villain". At least, not yet, and I'm gonna want to see him take steps down that path; the end of Doctor Strange he left because Strange and the Ancient One had broken too many of the rules he believed in, not because he was gonna break a lot more.

Are people really convinced that they're going to introduce the actual big bad out of nowhere 7 episodes into a 9 episode season?

I don't know... That seems to me like it would be either entirely too convenient, or entirely too jarring to introduce some mysterious cosmic-level force who just happens to be pulling all these strings, that hasn't even been hinted at yet (beyond maybe an offhand comment about Wanda's kids). Even Rambeau's scientist friend, whoever that ends up being, has had some set-up.

First, I think we are getting set-up. It's just subtle; you're seeing dots in a connect-the-dots book without any numbers, which makes it hard to draw the image, but once they overlay the image, the dots will make perfect sense retroactively.

Ep 6 in particular I think gave us super strong hints, which a lot of people overlooked because they got distracted by stunt casting. Which means, if I'm right, it's probably the best use of stunt casting I've seen.

I think people are way too quick to dismiss Agnes as just a red herring. She's had an awful lot of screentime (including in those spoof intro credits) for just another victim of the hex.

That's assuming that Agnes is only intended to be in Wandavision.

I wouldn't be shocked if they're using these new shows in the same way that Agents of SHIELD was originally intended to be used; to introduce new characters and villains and test them out with audiences to see which ones "click", and thus those characters can be used in the films without needing a lot of introduction, just the equivalent of the "see Wandavision Ep 6!" panels you'd get in the comics. I don't think the Agatha Harkness stuff is wrong, I just think people are getting the order of events wrong, because they're trying to use Earth-616 as a blueprint, when it's just a loose inspiration for the MCU. I don't think we've really been given any indication that Agnes is in any kind of control of things, and several demonstrations she isn't. But given what we know of what happened to Rambeau, she could easily walk out of the Hex at the end of this with powers.

I think Wandavision is essentially being used as an Agatha Harkness origin story as their hidden C-plot, basically. Either that, or it's all a red herring.

[MrLachyG]

It happens a long while after they poof but someone triggers the memory of it and she snaps.

Supposedly the last 3 episodes are an hour each. I had always guessed the last one would be nearer to 2 hours, but so far we've had 2 and a half hours of story so 3 would be a bit short of 6.

I wonder how huge of a thing can happen considering Far From Home happens about half a year later.

well there was a theory floated that the character that made a surprise appearance at the end of FFH was actually from an alternate universe

[ProphetFlume]

I cannot possibly get behind Mordo as the villain. Mordo was way too up-front and by-the-book. He'd want to stick three feet of steel through Wanda's head if he thought she was abusing magic, but all this? The enslavement of an entire town's worth of people? Can't believe he'd do that. His entire issue with Strange was that Strange wasn't orderly enough. Mordo was the Lawful Neutral prig of a Paladin who was antithetical to Strange's CG Rogue (classes chosen for personality, not abilities). He's gonna be an antagonist, for sure, but he's not what I'd call a "villain". At least, not yet, and I'm gonna want to see him take steps down that path; the end of Doctor Strange he left because Strange and the Ancient One had broken too many of the rules he believed in, not because he was gonna break a lot more.

You seem to be forgetting the post-credits scene where he steals the guy’s magic, leaving him crippled and basically paralyzed, and said the problem with the world is “too many sorcerers.” That’s a villain.

[Endus]

You seem to be forgetting the post-credits scene where he steals the guy’s magic, leaving him crippled and basically paralyzed, and said the problem with the world is “too many sorcerers.” That’s a villain.

And to quote him in that scene, since I went back to check;

"the true purpose of a sorceror is to twist things out of their proper shape, stealing power, perverting nature"
And then he cripples the guy for using said power. And the guy asks why he's doing this, and he responds;
"I see at last what's wrong with the world, too many sorcerors."

So it's real important to understand why he's turning to killing/crippling sorcerors; because they are violating the laws of nature and reality.

And the Hex is . . . nothing but that. It's antithetical to everything Mordo believes.

I'm not saying Mordo's in the right. I'm saying he's Magic Judge Dredd. I can't reconcile that attitude with the idea of Mordo being behind the Hex; it's everything he stands against. If you want a shadowy figure that's implacably hunting down and slaughtering magic-users in the night, I could totally believe that's Mordo. Just not this. Even in that after credits scene, he just walks up to the guy, explains what's gonna happen, and does it, right to the guy's face. No subterfuge, no complexity.

I'd put Mordo high on the list of people who couldn't possibly be responsible for the Hex. I'd believe it's Reed Richards or Justin Hammer or whatever before Mordo.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Would they really use Mephisto considering he's deviliesque?

[Endus]

Would they really use Mephisto considering he's deviliesque?

At best, they'd just have to de-religify him in a way the comics didn't. Maybe he's from another dimension, a "hell dimension". Maybe he's the immortal reality behind the myths, and the myths really don't get a lot right. Etc.

I'm not stuck on it BEING Mephisto. I think it's almost TOO obvious. But maybe that's just because it's been forecast well enough and they're not shifting too far from the canon Marvel stuff, so we can kinda cheat by pulling from the comics.

[ProphetFlume]

And to quote him in that scene, since I went back to check;

"the true purpose of a sorceror is to twist things out of their proper shape, stealing power, perverting nature"
And then he cripples the guy for using said power. And the guy asks why he's doing this, and he responds;
"I see at last what's wrong with the world, too many sorcerors."

So it's real important to understand why he's turning to killing/crippling sorcerors; because they are violating the laws of nature and reality.

And the Hex is . . . nothing but that. It's antithetical to everything Mordo believes.

I'm not saying Mordo's in the right. I'm saying he's Magic Judge Dredd. I can't reconcile that attitude with the idea of Mordo being behind the Hex; it's everything he stands against. If you want a shadowy figure that's implacably hunting down and slaughtering magic-users in the night, I could totally believe that's Mordo. Just not this. Even in that after credits scene, he just walks up to the guy, explains what's gonna happen, and does it, right to the guy's face. No subterfuge, no complexity.

I'd put Mordo high on the list of people who couldn't possibly be responsible for the Hex. I'd believe it's Reed Richards or Justin Hammer or whatever before Mordo.

I was arguing with what I bolded, not your logic.

But your Dredd comparison is funny. I read a little of it and one issue is dredd and another group of cops being bored and seeing a guy walking and they become obsessed with proving he’s up to no good. So citing probable cause and lawful reasons they bust down his door and “search” his house by destroying everything. When 5ey find nothing dredd apologizes, says sometimes the boys get overzealous, and writes hour a check as compensation. Point being it’s not a stretch for a fascist to do the very things he’s so rigidly against. And The Ancient One mentions he’s so rigid he’ll break before he bends. I don’t think it’s him but he’s more likely than anyone else we’ve met.

[Endus]

I was arguing with what I bonded, not your logic.

I'm still comfortable with my "antagonist, not (yet) villain" standard. We don't know that Mordo killed that guy; it seems he didn't. Just took the magic that let him walk despite his injury. Because he sees that use of magic as a perversion of nature. I'm not saying you should agree with him, but it's the same kind of rationale of seizing the ill-gotten gains of an embezzler, even if it means his kids won't be able to continue attending the special needs private school they were benefiting from. I'm not arguing he's heroic, but it's hard to definitively state that he's unequivocally in the wrong, or even that he's actually hurting anyone (as he didn't create this guy's injuries, and thus isn't responsible for any complications he suffers due to them).

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm still comfortable with my "antagonist, not (yet) villain" standard. We don't know that Mordo killed that guy; it seems he didn't. Just took the magic that let him walk despite his injury. Because he sees that use of magic as a perversion of nature. I'm not saying you should agree with him, but it's the same kind of rationale of seizing the ill-gotten gains of an embezzler, even if it means his kids won't be able to continue attending the special needs private school they were benefiting from. I'm not arguing he's heroic, but it's hard to definitively state that he's unequivocally in the wrong, or even that he's actually hurting anyone (as he didn't create this guy's injuries, and thus isn't responsible for any complications he suffers due to them).

I feel like taking magic away from someone who uses it to walk is mighty different then using the time stone for(See end of Doctor Strange) and or using energy from the dark dimension. But thats just me. Random but I wonder if Wanda is going to survive after this alt reality situation.

[Wyattbw09]

Would they really use Mephisto considering he's deviliesque?

Hasn't the show Lucifer been around for like 8 years? Must not have been too much backlash at using the devil? Hell, in that she isn't Lucifer the hero? At least in Wandavision he would be a villain?

[eschatological]

Are people really convinced that they're going to introduce the actual big bad out of nowhere 7 episodes into a 9 episode season?

I don't know... That seems to me like it would be either entirely too convenient, or entirely too jarring to introduce some mysterious cosmic-level force who just happens to be pulling all these strings, that hasn't even been hinted at yet (beyond maybe an offhand comment about Wanda's kids). Even Rambeau's scientist friend, whoever that ends up being, has had some set-up.

I think people are way too quick to dismiss Agnes as just a red herring. She's had an awful lot of screentime (including in those spoof intro credits) for just another victim of the hex.

This literally happened at the end of s1 of another Disney property, The Mandalorian. You have to start thinking of these shows as multiple season mini-arcs in one larger series-arc.

Of course, IDK if WandaVision has a multi-season deal lined up. If she breaks free of the trap, not exactly sure how that happens in future seasons, unless Vision actually lives, and they try and have a life together.

- - - Updated - - -

Hasn't the show Lucifer been around for like 8 years? Must not have been too much backlash at using the devil? Hell, in that she isn't Lucifer the hero? At least in Wandavision he would be a villain?

Ladies love Lucifer in that show. He's a "thirst trap" is what the kid's call it. The devil is so in right now.

[s_bushido]

This literally happened at the end of s1 of another Disney property, The Mandalorian. You have to start thinking of these shows as multiple season mini-arcs in one larger series-arc.

Except that the command structure of Imperial forces, and the fact that there's usually some sort of particularly unpleasant bastard at the top isn't exactly a mystery. The child was being hunted by someone that entire season. It's not as if Mando got away with him scot-free after breaking his contract and fucking up the soldiers in that base. So far, beyond Wanda's inability/unwillingness to remember how exactly the hex got started, there's been no indication that anyone else is in control but her. Especially after the most recent episode.

[ProphetFlume]

Are people really convinced that they're going to introduce the actual big bad out of nowhere 7 episodes into a 9 episode season?

I don't know... That seems to me like it would be either entirely too convenient, or entirely too jarring to introduce some mysterious cosmic-level force who just happens to be pulling all these strings, that hasn't even been hinted at yet (beyond maybe an offhand comment about Wanda's kids). Even Rambeau's scientist friend, whoever that ends up being, has had some set-up.

I think people are way too quick to dismiss Agnes as just a red herring. She's had an awful lot of screentime (including in those spoof intro credits) for just another victim of the hex.

I mean so far we’ve seen 2 and a half hours of wandavision, last 3 are supposed to be an hour each so...