[TV] WandaVision

[Endus]

I feel like taking magic away from someone who uses it to walk is mighty different then using the time stone for(See end of Doctor Strange) and or using energy from the dark dimension. But thats just me. Random but I wonder if Wanda is going to survive after this alt reality situation.

Picture if the guy was using a drug he was securing illegally, instead, and Mordo just . . . took away his drugs.

Or the guy was reliant on a manservant he'd enslaved, and Mordo freed the slave.

If you only consider the benefit to the guy in question, yeah, it seems cruel. They've made a point of establishing that Mordo doesn't see things that way, though. He's not causing the disability, he's merely taking back the coping mechanism that the guy has no right to, which Mordo sees as an abuse of that tool.

I'm not saying Mordo's right, just that it's not a clear-cut "kick puppies because EVIL" motivation. And still way more direct and honest than whatever's happening here; I cannot fathom Mordo being involved in the Hex and what it's doing to Wanda. If anything, he'd be more likely to be a third party who came storming into the mix to screw up EVERYONE's plans; Wanda, whoever's behind the Hex, the whole mess.

I get the impression that Mordo vs Wanda would be like trying to lasso an elephant, but that's a different story.

[s_bushido]

I mean so far we’ve seen 2 and a half hours of wandavision, last 3 are supposed to be an hour each so...

Are they? Hmm... That would make more sense. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

[blankfaced]

So she's being drained of her power, yet not showing a single sign of fatigue or weakening? In fact as the show's gone on she's gotten stronger and more in control. Maybe next episode after the expansion of the Hex she'll be weakened?

[ProphetFlume]

So she's being drained of her power, yet not showing a single sign of fatigue or weakening? In fact as the show's gone on she's gotten stronger and more in control. Maybe next episode after the expansion of the Hex she'll be weakened?

Could also be her draining them. They’re stuck in the hex, some can’t move even to feed themselves.

[Ophenia]

So she's being drained of her power, yet not showing a single sign of fatigue or weakening? In fact as the show's gone on she's gotten stronger and more in control. Maybe next episode after the expansion of the Hex she'll be weakened?

Well technically, the fact she loses control over Vision might be proof she's being weakened.

Considering she’s a big part of Doctor Strange 2 next year? Yeah, she’s gonna survive.

That doesn't mean she can't die and somehow re-appear in a future movie involving someone whose main movie was about manipulating the time stone

[blankfaced]

Could also be her draining them. They’re stuck in the hex, some can’t move even to feed themselves.

That's what I got out of it. Especially after seeing the ones on the edge of town stuck in a loop. For all we know slowly starving to death.

Well technically, the fact she loses control over Vision might be proof she's being weakened.



That doesn't mean she can't die and somehow re-appear in a future movie involving someone whose main movie was about manipulating the time stone

Very true. But she does expand the Hex substantially right afterwards too. But the Hex could be the easy part and keeping Vision under control is the more taxing task, or like has been said the hex was there and she's just using it would also explain it being easier to manipulate as well. A town full of people could be substantially easier to control than a consciousness created from the Mind Stone.

Or if it's not even her doing it and the big baddie is just making it look like she's doing all this to keep her there to drain her. That would be the only disappointing ending to the show for me. If all of this turned out to not be an expansion of Wanda's powers to the reality warping level but it was someone else doing it all along.

[Endus]

So she's being drained of her power, yet not showing a single sign of fatigue or weakening? In fact as the show's gone on she's gotten stronger and more in control. Maybe next episode after the expansion of the Hex she'll be weakened?

I would strongly disagree with this interpretation of events.

We haven't seen anything from Wanda that isn't significantly below what she demonstrated during Endgame. Some floating around, a little very unsubtle mind control (way simpler than, say, what we say in Age of Ultron, where she inserted nightmares into various Avengers). Her biggest displays of power were smashing Rambeau out of the town, which doesn't seem on the same power level as "tearing Thanos physically apart with ease", and corrupting the border wall of the Hex, which we don't have any way to compare to anything.

Once you realize the Hex isn't Wanda, you can't argue that anything Hex-related has anything to do with her powers or strength. Not the mind-control, not the reality manipulation it does, not the border expansion it just did in the most recent episode.

They haven't clearly demonstrated her decline firmly, but there's plenty of time left to do so. But I don't see any indication she's getting stronger. And she's losing control of the Hex. That's one of the main plot threads going on, here.

[s_bushido]

And she's losing control of the Hex. That's one of the main plot threads going on, here.

...what? She strengthened the barrier, and then expanded it at will.

If you want to point to the people near the perimeter not moving as evidence that she's losing control, I can just as easily point to the recently-integrated SWORD agents behaving "normally" (for their new personas, at least).

[Sorrowseer]

I have only gotten upto ike episode 3 or 4 and finding it incredibly tedious, from what I can tell people are gushing over easter eggs here and there and there also but having never read any of the comics, I only ever watched the marvel cartoons as a kid and ofc the MCU nowadays, its not gripping me, is it the kind of thing where its super amazeballs come espide 4/5+?

[Aydinx2]

Once you realize the Hex isn't Wanda, you can't argue that anything Hex-related has anything to do with her powers or strength. Not the mind-control, not the reality manipulation it does, not the border expansion it just did in the most recent episode.

That would be a weird realization, since it absolutely is Wanda beyond any doubt. We've already seen her prove that it's her doing:

1. she is fully aware of its existence
2. she can move through it at will
3. she can increase the size at will
4. she literally had a talk with Pietro about the morals of her actions regarding the entire town being mindcontrolled

You can't argue that these things don't prove that it's her doing "because you need to realize that it isn't her doing". That's circular logic.

[Endus]

...what? She strengthened the barrier, and then expanded it at will.

We didn't actually see what the consequences of what she did to the barrier were. It turned red. We presume that means it was more-hostile to entry, but that's had little actual demonstration.

And we know she's responsible for triggering the expansion, but I'm suggesting she's as responsible as someone who uses a backhoe to dig a big hole. They're in control, but they're not moving that dirt through their own muscle. She's got some measure of control, but I don't think it's her powers that are the core of what's going on in the Hex.

If you want to point to the people near the perimeter not moving as evidence that she's losing control, I can just as easily point to the recently-integrated SWORD agents behaving "normally" (for their new personas, at least).

I think the fact that people near the edges act robotically argues against the Hex just being Wanda. We've seen that her powers essentially just rewrite people's brains, and don't require her constant control. If the Hex were Wanda, she could have "rewritten" everyone's personality and left them to run their lives on automatic. Instead, it's pretty clear that whatever's causing this involves active, constant, direct control over their minds, and that it can't manage everyone at once, so those on the fringes are doing the bare minimum because they're "out of frame", so to speak. The same way a video game will reduce or eliminate rendering on events that aren't in sight range of the player's position, to cut down on how much processing is required. Frankly, it also doesn't explain why people "break down" near Wanda sometimes, or why them doing so is so confusing to her. If she were in direct control, and that control had slipped, you'd expect she'd be angrily trying to re-assert control and get things back on track, and that's just not what we see happening.

I'll metaphorically eat my own shirt if the Hex turns out to be "just Wanda, nothing else". I don't buy that claim, at all, based on what we've seen.

[Endus]

That would be a weird realization, since it absolutely is Wanda beyond any doubt. We've already seen her prove that it's her doing:

1. she is fully aware of its existence
2. she can move through it at will
3. she can increase the size at will
4. she literally had a talk with Pietro about the morals of her actions regarding the entire town being mindcontrolled

You can't argue that these things don't prove that it's her doing "because you need to realize that it isn't her doing". That's circular logic.

Again, take my comparison to a backhoe, if I used that backhoe to tear down my neighbour's house.

1> I'm fully aware that the backhoe exists.
2> I can enter and exit the backhoe at will.
3> I can drive that backhoe around anywhere I like (closest comparison I can think of).
4> I can argue with my sibling about the morality of using that backhoe to demolish my neighbour's house.

Doesn't mean I am the backhoe. And if that backhoe is also doing other things I'm seemingly not in control of, maybe not everything it does is my fault.

I'm not arguing that Wanda isn't aware of the Hex and using the Hex. I'm just arguing that the Hex is not just an application of Wanda's powers; it's a tool she found/acquired/whatever and is making use of. And that there's someone behind the scenes, the real originator of the Hex, who's about to be exposed as the true villain of the piece; that the Hex was essentially a baited trap for Wanda personally, or at least someone like her.

- - - Updated - - -

The only thing we know she did to the barrier was make it so her power infused objects that passed through it. Before she did so they'd just come out as whatever they turned in to, after she infused her power they came out with a weird aura of her power surrounding them(see the Stark drone).

We've seen that aura, we just have no idea what it means, as far as I know.

Also, strong evidence that the barrier and what it did before (the reality conversion) is not Wanda's powers, because her powers always have that red aura, and the Hex doesn't, it has a weird digitized/camera snow look to everything.

[Kathandira]

To me, it appears her power over the Hex is weak when she is happy. But when she is stressed or angry, her powers increase in strength.

For me, the entire show is about grief, coping, and learning to control herself.

I really don't think there is a BBEG. I think the entire thing will resolve when Vision finally breaks through to her and she learns to finally let go of him.

Looking back to Age of Ultron, when Pietro died, she lost her shit and annihilated a bunch of mini Ultrons with her powers. But it didn't look like she did it at will, but rather is was a product of her rage.

When Hex Pietro made a comment that pissed her off, she turned and nearly killed him in a flash of anger.

When Monica stressed her out by mentioning Pietro, she sent her flying out of the Hex.

When she is pissed, threatened, stressed, she lashes out with her powers. But when things are all good, she does user her powers, but not the a lethal extent.

[Skulltaker]

I'm not arguing that Wanda isn't aware of the Hex and using the Hex. I'm just arguing that the Hex is not just an application of Wanda's powers; it's a tool she found/acquired/whatever and is making use of. And that there's someone behind the scenes, the real originator of the Hex, who's about to be exposed as the true villain of the piece; that the Hex was essentially a baited trap for Wanda personally, or at least someone like her.

Might also be she's being used to interact with the Hex. Like someone has a car and uses her to turn the ignition like a key. She might not be fully aware of what is happening. She might percieve it differently, she might even not realize she's causing others to suffer. Or it's someone/something that needs her like an anchor. The hex is extra-dimensional and someone needs Wanda's powers to make it do whatever.

[Endus]

Might also be she's being used to interact with the Hex. Like someone has a car and uses her to turn the ignition like a key. She might not be fully aware of what is happening. She might percieve it differently, she might even not realize she's causing others to suffer. Or it's someone/something that needs her like an anchor. The hex is extra-dimensional and someone needs Wanda's powers to make it do whatever.

Yeah, I'm not willing to make many arguments as to exactly what the Hex is or what its purpose is, yet. Some wild theories that I've mentioned, but are just guesses.

I'm gonna eat my shirt if it turns out it's "just Wanda", because they've thrown a metric fuckton of evidence suggesting everything but that. I really don't know how you watch this show and think all of this is just Wanda Maximoff.

[blankfaced]

Yeah, I'm not willing to make many arguments as to exactly what the Hex is or what its purpose is, yet. Some wild theories that I've mentioned, but are just guesses.

I'm gonna eat my shirt if it turns out it's "just Wanda", because they've thrown a metric fuckton of evidence suggesting everything but that. I really don't know how you watch this show and think all of this is just Wanda Maximoff.

Because I've watched the cartoons and know a bit about the comics and she's entirely capable of this level of power on her own. I can see how she could be being manipulated by an outside force (like Storm with Shadow King) but i'm not going to entirely dismiss it being Wanda just because there's been a few things pointing to a puppeteer. I mean, why would they intentionally refer to it as a Hex when that's exactly how her powers are described at times? Also this cutesy bubblegum pop Wanda we've had in the Avengers isn't Wanda. She's always had this dueling personality with a similar rage as her father fighting against basically a Charles-esque sympathy. And it's refreshing to see her be who she's been known as and not just a red Jean, which is what they've been using her as.

The show seems less like a way to introduce the next big baddie and more like a way to tie the two universes together. And it's a better fit to do the latter in a show than a movie. Where the former would be better suited for a movie.

[Kathandira]

Because I've watched the cartoons and know a bit about the comics and she's entirely capable of this level of power on her own. I can see how she could be being manipulated by an outside force (like Storm with Shadow King) but i'm not going to entirely dismiss it being Wanda just because there's been a few things pointing to a puppeteer. I mean, why would they intentionally refer to it as a Hex when that's exactly how her powers are described at times? Also this cutesy bubblegum pop Wanda we've had in the Avengers isn't Wanda. She's always had this dueling personality with a similar rage as her father fighting against basically a Charles-esque sympathy. And it's refreshing to see her be who she's been known as and not just a red Jean, which is what they've been using her as.

The show seems less like a way to introduce the next big baddie and more like a way to tie the two universes together. And it's a better fit to do the latter in a show than a movie. Where the former would be better suited for a movie.

I'm in the camp of "It's just Wanda"

What i see this show as a launch pad for is, Wanda's powers are surfacing through her pain, grief, and anger. Which sets in motions her manipulating reality. Dr. Strange 2 Multiverse of Madness could basically have to do with the consequence of her actions, and Dr. Strange will take her along to fix the problems as it was her who caused it. So he wants her to join her in cleaning up her mess.

[Endus]

Because I've watched the cartoons and know a bit about the comics and she's entirely capable of this level of power on her own.

1> Earth-616 has no bearing on Earth-199999. They might use stuff, they might change stuff, they might completely overwrite stuff. The comics give you absolutely zero reliable information when it comes to anything in the MCU, because they literally aren't the same universe.

2> It's less about capability (I've argued elsewhere that I think Wanda's the most powerful character in the MCU right now, other than perhaps Dr. Strange), and more just that none of this makes sense if it's Wanda and none of it looks like it's Wanda. Her powers have a distinct "look", and the Hex doesn't line up with that. Also, for something that doesn't make sense; why the broadcast? Even if Wanda wanted a perfect Sitcom life for her and her hubby, the broadcast doesn't make sense. Nor does it being the "wrong Pietro", even if we ignore that she didn't try and bring Pietro back and was pretty shocked and upset by it.

I can see how she could be being manipulated by an outside force (like Storm with Shadow King) but i'm not going to entirely dismiss it being Wanda just because there's been a few things pointing to a puppeteer. I mean, why would they intentionally refer to it as a Hex when that's exactly how her powers are described at times?

Darcy literally said she called it the Hex because its border is hexagonal in shape. I gotta assume the writers intend the double meaning, but that double meaning isn't (at least, explicitly) diegetic.

Also this cutesy bubblegum pop Wanda we've had in the Avengers isn't Wanda. She's always had this dueling personality with a similar rage as her father fighting against basically a Charles-esque sympathy. And it's refreshing to see her be who she's been known as and not just a red Jean, which is what they've been using her as.

Seems like a good time to mention that Magneto is not Wanda and Pietro's father.

Definitely super not in the MCU, where he doesn't even exist, but in the canonical Marvel Earth-616 universe, it isn't true either. Their last name isn't Lehnsherr, it's Maximoff. She and Pietro, in Earth-616, were the children of Django and Marya Maximoff. They aren't even mutants; they have powers because of experimentation by the High Evolutionary.

The "Magneto is your secret father" thing was a lie Magneto used to manipulate the two of them for a while. That's it. That's Earth-616 canon.

I also have no idea where you're getting any similarity to Jean.

The show seems less like a way to introduce the next big baddie and more like a way to tie the two universes together. And it's a better fit to do the latter in a show than a movie. Where the former would be better suited for a movie.

Pietro here is not Pietro from the X-men universe. He claims to have her Pietro's memories, and remembers dying as he did.

You're relying on assumptions the stunt casting tricked you into believing by thinking there's anything about the X-men universe in here. That's a red herring and other than Evan Peters being cast, there's nothing that suggests he's from another universe. Even if you want to assume he's totally legit (and I think they've given a TON of hints that he's not), the better explanation is that the Hex (or Wanda) can't create new people here, so it couldn't create Pietro in his old form, but had to grap another townsperson at random and stick a Quicksilver personality in his head. Would be a similar explanation as to why she needed Vision's body to get his rebirth going.

[ProphetFlume]

I have only gotten upto ike episode 3 or 4 and finding it incredibly tedious, from what I can tell people are gushing over easter eggs here and there and there also but having never read any of the comics, I only ever watched the marvel cartoons as a kid and ofc the MCU nowadays, its not gripping me, is it the kind of thing where its super amazeballs come espide 4/5+?

Saying episode 3 or 4 is like saying the revolutionary war or ww 2. 4 is where the plot is laid out. 5 is where the gushing is coming from.

[Sorrowseer]

Saying episode 3 or 4 is like saying the revolutionary war or ww 2. 4 is where the plot is laid out. 5 is where the gushing is coming from.

I dunno, it was all so utterly boring I forgot which episode it was.