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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    I took it it as him being pulled back into the Hex piece by piece, idk.

    I’m not sure if he was disintegrating because he left, or if it was pulling him back in so he can’t escape, meaning he’s not an illusion, just a prisoner that the Hex wants to keep.
    It seemed pretty clear that 1.) he was alive and 2.) the Hex was trying to pull him back in and he was fighting that pull, which is why he was being ripped apart.

    If he were simply a reanimated corpse, he would have dropped as soon as he got past the barrier, just like how Wanda reverted to her normal form when she stepped through. (Which was probably quite intentional as to why he switched to his normal appearance before leaving.)

  2. #442
    The Lightbringer Daws001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I assumed the person I quoted used "mutations" as a way to specifically reference mutants rather then simply a person gaining any type of power.
    I did. It's been speculated for awhile but I couldn't really see it. Now they seem to be hinting at it. I think it'd be a sick flip. Wanda wiped out mutants in the comics and could be the one to create them in the MCU. X-Men Pietro is in the MCU, Dr Strange 2 has Madness in the title, who knows what'll happen next.

  3. #443
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    My interpretation of Monica’s gaining powers were specifically linked to her going through the hex barrier twice. As far as we know no one else has done that besides Wanda so there’s no way to gauge it. We saw last night how powerful that barrier is.

    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post

    I’m still banking on this being about the stones. The mindstone empowered her, vision wore the damn thing, and it was hinted that the stone itself was self aware to an extent as I recall. Perhaps whatever is left of it is what is pushing things for Wanda.

    Monica is calling in a friend. It’s only 3 weeks after the blip, and Danvers has been named dropped twice and also has a connection to the stones. Who else would she still connect to after being gone 5 years

    When was the stone implied to be self aware?

    I feel like enough leaks have happened that if someone like strange or carol appear we’d have heard about it. Though I avoid spoilers so maybe there has been stuff like that, but it seems like the Evan peters addition was known to anyone digging up that stuff.
    Carol isn’t an astrophysicist
    Last edited by ProphetFlume; 2021-02-13 at 04:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Is it worth the watch.
    Some say its horrible, others say its great.
    what other shows does it feel like?
    Seriously? You just covered that people view the show both "horrible" and "great". What kind of answer are you even looking for? Watch it and judge for your damn self.

    And there are no other shows to compare it to imo
    "If you don't know who I am -- then maybe your best course is to tread lightly." - W.W.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody Worth Knowing View Post
    It seemed pretty clear that 1.) he was alive and 2.) the Hex was trying to pull him back in and he was fighting that pull, which is why he was being ripped apart.

    If he were simply a reanimated corpse, he would have dropped as soon as he got past the barrier, just like how Wanda reverted to her normal form when she stepped through. (Which was probably quite intentional as to why he switched to his normal appearance before leaving.)
    Crossing the Hex doesn’t change you back to your previous form. Wanda did that willingly, but Monica’s clothes and DNA were permanently altered.

    I really feel the Hex was « pulling » Vision because he’s dead outside of it. He was just going back to his dead form. The same will probably happen to kids and maybe Pietro because they’re not supposed to be here in the first place

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    IDK about that. When Vision was trying to escape the Hex, I was worried he was just going to fall over dead with a big hole in his forehead, and ashen grey.

    It seems clear to me Wanda has somehow created a new Vision. Now, Vision started disintegrating when he left the Hex, which may imply he's purely an illusion - but that begs the question as to why she'd need/want his corpse from SWORD. Is it hidden in some closet while she creates the new Vision completely from her memory? If so, why does it have his sense of autonomy? Why can't she control him? To me that implies she's made the corpse of Vision whole again, and the visions she sees of dead Vision/Pietro are just that....bad trauma she's trying to suppress. Which is the whole point of the saccharine-sweet sitcom setting she's creating.
    The Vision inside the Hex being a Wanda illusion construct doesn't jive with the fact that the Tracking program clearly showed it was tracking the location of the Vision (as it for sure shows him being located at the edge of the town when he encounters Agnes in the car). If she had just stolen his body and stashed it somewhere the Tracker should have showed it as stationary.

    So she has clearly done something with his body, we just aren't sure what yet, given that he seemed to start to completely disintegrate when he forced his way out of the Hex instead of just reverting to "Dead" vision, whatever she did is probably something much more complicated than just resurrecting his corpse and painting a "vision" facade over it.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    When was the stone implied to be self aware?
    Age of Ultron, when Stark studies the Stone and detects a consciousness inside. Jarvis even talks to "him" before being pulled in Ultron I think

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It could be related to whatever is the bad guy if it is not Wanda. Didn't Agnes ask the same thing which tipped Vision off? Something about resetting and taking it from the top. It makes me wonder if Wanda is only partially in control. And the "bad guy" can manipulate things as long as it happens like a TV show.
    I took all these small "out of script" dialogues (the two ones already mentioned, but also people here and there talking about how "Wanda will not let go anyone") as more the people being conscious they're manipulated but prefer plying to her will rather than risking her taking full control, as mind-controlled people always mention how "painful" it is to have her in their mind.

    They know they're being controlled, so when they feel like Wanda's being worried about something (Vision asking questions, every time the same starting point), they ask if they want them to do something, instead of waiting and have Wanda force them to.

    --

    The thing that troubled me in this episode is Pietro. When Wanda reminds his death, it's with Taylor-Johnson's face. And when she sees her dead when talking to him during halloween, it's with the new one. A bit puzzling to me, she should have seen Taylor-Johnson in this scene as well for consistency.
    And as someone said in earlier pages, he knows a bit too much about everything. He shouldn't even know Vision is dead in the first place (as he himself died what, the same day Vision came to life ?).
    Pietro is probably a projection of Wanda's grief. He's way too open about everything (shouting "Vision is already dead" in the middle of the Halloween fiesta, no problem man)...

    I also feel like the bad guy (if any) is not present yet. If the Hex can generate mutations, maybe absorbing other people may mutate someone in a very, very bad way. SWORD's chief wants her dead with a bit too much of a passion in my opinion, he doesn't know and doesn't care about how Wanda did all that, he wanted her dead even before getting confirmation she's in people's head. So Vision was probably already on the way to be weaponized and he may have found something powerful already that he wants back at any cost, even an Avenger's death.
    Last edited by Ophenia; 2021-02-13 at 07:02 AM.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Age of Ultron, when Stark studies the Stone and detects a consciousness inside. Jarvis even talks to "him" before being pulled in Ultron I think
    I don't think it was a consciousness, just the framework for an incredibly advanced AI. By the time Ultron became aware, Stark and Banner had already done some work on it...but they underestimated the power of the scepter/stone when they failed to predict that it would basically create the Ultron consciousness on its own with a little nudge. At least that was my interpretation of it.

    But I could be wrong.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Crossing the Hex doesn’t change you back to your previous form. Wanda did that willingly, but Monica’s clothes and DNA were permanently altered.

    I really feel the Hex was « pulling » Vision because he’s dead outside of it. He was just going back to his dead form. The same will probably happen to kids and maybe Pietro because they’re not supposed to be here in the first place
    You just argued against your own point.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody Worth Knowing View Post
    It seemed pretty clear that 1.) he was alive and 2.) the Hex was trying to pull him back in and he was fighting that pull, which is why he was being ripped apart.
    *doubt* on 1) as Vision wasnt realy OUT he was still in the hex and didnt realy escaped it imho outerwise he WOULD have dropped dead

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    When was the stone implied to be self aware?
    This was a plot point in Age of Ultron.

  12. #452
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    This was a plot point in Age of Ultron.
    Tony Stark: Meet the competition.
    [he brings up another 3D image of what's inside the scepter]
    Bruce Banner: It's beautiful.
    Tony Stark: If you had to guess, what's it look like it's doing?
    Bruce Banner: Like it's thinking. I mean this could be a...it's not a human mind, it... I mean, look at this! They're like neurons firing.

    Tony Stark: Down in Strucker's lab I saw some fairly advanced robotics work. They deep-sixed the data, but...I gotta guess he was knocking on a very particular door.
    Bruce Banner: Artificial intelligence.
    Tony Stark: This could be it, Bruce. This could be the key to creating Ultron.
    Bruce Banner: I thought Ultron was a fantasy.
    Tony Stark: Yesterday it was. If we can harness this power, apply it to my Iron Legion protocol.
    Bruce Banner: That's a mad-sized if.
    Tony Stark: Our job is "if." What if you were sipping margaritas on a sun-drenched beach turning brown instead of green? Not looking over your shoulder for VERONICA.
    Bruce Banner: Don't hate, I helped design VERONICA.
    Tony Stark: As a worst-case measure, right? How about a best-case? What if the world was safe? What if next time aliens roll up to the club, and they will, they couldn't get past the bouncer?
    Bruce Banner: The only people threatening the planet would be people?
    Tony Stark: I want to apply this to the Ultron program. But JARVIS can't download a data schematic this dense. We can only do it while we have the scepter here, that's three days, give me three days.
    Bruce Banner: So you're going for artificial intelligence and you don't want to tell the team.
    I see a brain framework used to create AI, I don't see self-awareness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
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    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    You just argued against your own point.
    That’s different for Vision, his consciousness is very likely linked to the Hex, he simply can’t be alive outside of it, as it was recreated inside. Everything else was modified by the Hex, i believe only Vision, the children and potentially Pietro physically cannot live outside as they all « appeared » inside and don’t exist in the outside world.

    But Monica’s clothes didn’t go back to her kevlar suit, they remained as they were inside when she was ejected, hence the Hex doesn’t automatically change stuff, this seems to be a manual operation (either from Wanda or whoever created it).
    Last edited by Ophenia; 2021-02-13 at 09:28 AM.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    That’s different for Vision, his consciousness is very likely linked to the Hex, he can’t be alive outside of it.

    But Monica’s clothes didn’t go back to her kevlar suit, they remained as they were inside when she was ejected, hence the Hex doesn’t automatically change stuff.
    I'm just saying. On the one side you are like "The Hex doesn't change you back to your previous form" and on the other "Vision was going back to his dead form"

    Also, his dead form had his skull caved in. He wasn't reverting back to that. The Hex was just trying to pull him back inside and ripping pieces off of him because he was resisting.

  15. #455
    Not only do I dig this show, I'm diggin' all the theories y'all are coming up with.

    I'm gonna assume he's the corpse brought to life and the tearing was because the Hex was pulling him back in. Him dropping to the ground pretty much dying is him returning to "who" he was outside of the Hex (not an ashen corpse but just dead) and it happens slowly because it's without Wanda's consent. For all we know if she's with him or if she's allowing him to he can leave the Hex just fine. When Monica is ejected from the Hex her clothes stay the same look as they were in the Hex but they maintain the properties of what they were outside. So while Vision was dead outside he'd still look alive as a corpse, like Monica's clothes. (Almost like he's plugged into the Hex/Wanda for energy.)

    Vision isn't a person, he's a thing and that's I think the point of showing how her clothes didn't change when she left. To show things remain the way Wanda makes them look even outside the Hex. Unless she wants them to change as seen with Wanda changing pretty much instantly as she exits the Hex.


    I'm also thinking they're going DID for Wanda becoming Scarlet Witch. It's almost like another personality takes over when she affects the Hex in any way. It would also explain why she has no memory of creating it, because technically Wanda didn't create it the alter did.
    ---
    I also really like how they gave more of a look into how torturous Wanda's Hex really is for the townsfolk. Like do the people on the edge of town even get to sleep or eat at all?

    I think they pretty much just told us that Agnes is Agatha. That witch costume was too on the nose for her not to be. And they wouldn't have chosen a well known actress and kept the character at the forefront for so long either if she wasn't. But what role does she play dun dun dun!!!

    And probably the whole bit about tracking Vision is they want to use his corpse to create a robot army like Stark wanted to.


    Also the name Ray Johnson pops up real fast on the computer. Apparently it's an alias for John Wraith a teleporter from Team X who also had Wolverine, Sabretooth, Maverick, Mastodon, and Silver Fox. So I think this really is just a big tie together of the two universes (In the movies he was played by will-i-am.)
    Last edited by blankfaced; 2021-02-13 at 11:47 AM.
    I'm a thread killer.

  16. #456
    While I do feel the initial 3 episodes didn’t work well in a 30 minute format (would have been much better for an hour long with episode 4 being mixed in for flashbacks etc to set up what was happening), it’s taken such great turns since then - and all the little things are set up very well.

    It helps that scarlet witch is and always has been one favorite characters in comics... but Friday is my most anticipated day of the week (and not just cuz it’s Friday l)

  17. #457
    I'm still on fake-pietro ass : I noticed a few more sketchy things after re-watching this episode with my sister.

    His dead form, with the bullet wounds do not match the one of the real pietro contrary to vision dead body. Of course she wasn't here but still the show pays attention to recreate a ton of things. His dead form also appear when she seems doubting that was she is doing is wrong, like a distraction.
    Moreover before being owned by Wanda, he pointed that her dead husband can't die twice...but he did.
    He clearly invented that halloween story when they were kids.

    Seems like someone who know Wanda's story but not the details.
    Also I noticed that Agnes was in the opening, confirming her as one of the main cast of the "show" but not giving her a last name which is once again suspect.

  18. #458
    also how can he know that vision died? he died before vision
    assuming afterlife is a thing and while dead one can see evrythinghappening everywhere... that would explain it but it's far fetched

  19. #459
    Something I did notice rewatching it: They made a point to show everything taking on a different form when overtaken by the expanding hex...except Vision. He was repaired, but his appearance wasn't changed back to the Halloween costume or his human disguise.

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I am fully aware of the x-men connection. Still doesn't change that the Hex might not be turning people into Mutants or that Monica is already a unique person. The show is supposed to set up or tie into Dr.Strange 2 and I don't really see X-men or Mutants playing a large role in that movie. But who knows how they tie everything together in some 4d chess.
    Yeah, but he comes from a different universe. Hence, extra dimensional energies are at play here.

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