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  1. #701
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not really. Did you miss the part where Monica has her Photon powers now?
    1) powers don’t = avenger

    2) they didn’t call in Monica the super powered member of sword, they called in normal, barely back 2 weeks agent of sword Monica.

    3) she’s not even working under sword anymore as she’s working against the head of it.

    But to the original question, I doubt Hayward wants to involve the avengers unless he has to for fear they’ll find out what he was doing to visions body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Agents of SHIELD season 1 spoiler alert: Fury calls him exactly that at the end of the last episode of season 1.
    Agents of shield isn’t even mcu, and takes place after his death, so... I’m talking before he was given alien blood which affected his physiology.
    Last edited by ProphetFlume; 2021-02-23 at 01:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    1) powers don’t = avenger

    2) they didn’t call in Monica the super powered member of sword, they called in normal, barely back 2 weeks agent of sword Monica.

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    Agents of shield isn’t even mcu, and takes place after his death, so... I’m talking before he was given alien blood which affected his physiology.
    From a writers POV there isn’t a need to bring in an established Avenger and Agent Hayward is adverse to people with powers. So you’ve got 3 Avengers inside the Hex(one newly born) and an asshole outside who wants to make Ultron 2.0. Now, that’s not to say other Avengers won’t be dealing with the fallout. Obviously Doctor Strange 2 will be continuing Wanda’s story and this miniseries leads directly into that.

  3. #703
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    And the thing about Vision being who he is without the mindstone is exactly what I mean. He should not have 'no memories', but without the mindstone he may well be a lot more like Ultron, which was Ultron's plan. Vision was supposed to be Ultron's 'final form' and then got more Jarvis (iirc) and the mindstone, which made him Vision instead.
    Vision was an empty husk. The plan was for ultron to upload his consciousness to him. Later tony and Bruce began to upload the original ultron plans tweaked with jarvis in the hopes of adding a morality, but Thor popped it halfway, so he’s neither.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    From a writers POV there isn’t a need to bring in an established Avenger and Agent Hayward is adverse to people with powers. So you’ve got 3 Avengers inside the Hex(one newly born) and an asshole outside who wants to make Ultron 2.0. Now, that’s not to say other Avengers won’t be dealing with the fallout. Obviously Doctor Strange 2 will be continuing Wanda’s story and this miniseries leads directly into that.
    That’s not your discussion, you said they called in the superpowered avenger Monica to handle things, which 2 of 3 of those weren’t true, and one just happened 7 weeks in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Vision was an empty husk. The plan was for ultron to upload his consciousness to him. Later tony and Bruce began to upload the original ultron plans tweaked with jarvis in the hopes of adding a morality, but Thor popped it halfway, so he’s neither.

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    That’s not your discussion, you said they called in the superpowered avenger Monica to handle things, which 2 of 3 of those weren’t true, and one just happened 7 weeks in.
    No I didn’t. I said they, the writers, already have an Avenger on scene helping deal with the problem. You inferred the rest. And, again, the guy in charge hates people with powers... soooooo, yeah.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Vision was an empty husk. The plan was for ultron to upload his consciousness to him. Later tony and Bruce began to upload the original ultron plans tweaked with jarvis in the hopes of adding a morality, but Thor popped it halfway, so he’s neither.

    <snip>
    Ah yea, that's what it was. I still think that taking away the mindstone should not erase what was there before, which is, as you wrote, original Ultron with more Jarvis. I think those memories should still be there and they aren't, because SWORD removed them. They don't actually want Jarvis in it, morality would be an impediment for a weapon they want to deploy whenever whereever they like. And if they actually were already trying to bring him back online, they must already have implemented their own AI. Wanda may have erased that, or at least tried to.

    But we'll see what it really is, I hope this Friday. I'm already biting my nails, because I'm so curious!

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Agents of shield isn’t even mcu,
    I guess you don't figure the Netflix shows to be part of the MCU either then.

    and takes place after his death, so... I’m talking before he was given alien blood which affected his physiology.
    Errrr, yeah? That happened to him from being brought back, which Fury did because he considered Coulson an Avenger at the time of his death.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not really. Did you miss the part where Monica has her Photon powers now?
    Monica is not an Avenger. Powers don't make you an Avenger. It just makes you someone with powers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Monica is not an Avenger. Powers don't make you an Avenger. It just makes you someone with powers.
    Get back to me after Captain Marvel 2 and tell me she’s not an Avenger in this phase of the MCU.

  9. #709
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    No I didn’t. I said they, the writers, already have an Avenger on scene helping deal with the problem. You inferred the rest. And, again, the guy in charge hates people with powers... soooooo, yeah.
    Maybe that’s what you meant but
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    We have an Avenger intervening. Her name is Monica.
    In no way comes off as “the writers have someone on scene fulfilling that role.”

    Which still wouldn’t be the same because the point was Hayward recognizing he’s in over his head. Though I already answered that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    I guess you don't figure the Netflix shows to be part of the MCU either then.



    Errrr, yeah? That happened to him from being brought back, which Fury did because he considered Coulson an Avenger at the time of his death.
    No, they’re not. Feige and everyone from the mcu would agree with me. I don’t need to go into the real life reasons for this do I? It’s not coincidence nothing from those shows were mentioned in the mcu.
    Last edited by ProphetFlume; 2021-02-23 at 02:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Maybe that’s what you meant but


    In no way comes off as “the writers have someone on scene fulfilling that role.”

    Which still wouldn’t be the same because the point was Hayward recognizing he’s in over his head. Though I already Pyongyang answered that.
    Maybe not to you, but that’s exactly what I meant. I look at all those decisions from the POV of the writers since it’s the only way it makes sense for Avengers not popping up constantly to help deal with the massive threats in every installment of the MCU.

    There’s big shit going down and they have 3 Avengers on site. One of which is making her debut as an Avenger level hero in the series. And, again, Hayward hates people with powers. He wouldn’t call any for help.
    Last edited by Vegas82; 2021-02-23 at 02:14 PM.

  11. #711
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Get back to me after Captain Marvel 2 and tell me she’s not an Avenger in this phase of the MCU.
    You keep mentioning stuff from the end point backwards. We’re talking about things as they were when they happened.

    Was tony an avenger in I’m 1 because he became one at the end of the phase? Were the maximoffs the heroes in the beginning of AoU because they were redeemed by the end?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    You keep mentioning stuff from the end point backwards. We’re talking about things as they were when they happened.

    Was tony an avenger in I’m 1 because he became one at the end of the phase? Were the maximoffs the heroes in the beginning of AoU because they were redeemed by the end?
    Yes, he was. And the Maximoff’s weren’t bad guys in AoU at any point in time. Just ask Cap.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Get back to me after Captain Marvel 2 and tell me she’s not an Avenger in this phase of the MCU.
    She's not an Avenger in Wandavision.

    After Captain Marvel 2 she may be an Avenger....but right now...she isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yes, he was. And the Maximoff’s weren’t bad guys in AoU at any point in time. Just ask Cap.
    He didn't say anything about them being "bad guys". He asked if they were Avengers. And for most of the movie... they aren't.

    And Tony wasn't an Avenger in IM1. He also wasn't an Avenger in IM2. Thor Odinson isn't an Avenger in Thor 1. Steve Rogers is not an Avenger in CA1. Carol Danvers isn't an Avenger in CM. Because there were no Avengers in the time frames those movies are set.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2021-02-23 at 03:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    She's not an Avenger in Wandavision.

    After Captain Marvel 2 she may be an Avenger....but right now...she isn't.

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    He didn't say anything about them being "bad guys". He asked if they were Avengers. And for most of the movie... they aren't.

    And Tony wasn't an Avenger in IM1. He also wasn't an Avenger in IM2. Thor Odinson isn't an Avenger in Thor 1. Steve Rogers is not an Avenger in CA1. Carol Danvers isn't an Avenger in CM. Because there were no Avengers in the time frames those movies are set.
    She’s an avenger level hero and will be one during this series. They have three of those on site, any more an it may as well be an Avengers movie.

    He said heroes. Hence my response.

    Yes, he was. From the writer’s PoV. Which is where I’m looking at it from. Just like Captain America was an Avenger in WW2 before the Avengers were even a thing.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yes, he was. From the writer’s PoV. Which is where I’m looking at it from. Just like Captain America was an Avenger in WW2 before the Avengers were even a thing.
    Stop trying to use avenger for a blanket statement of powerful hero. Avenger is just the team formed and at one point there were even two teams of Avengers. It doesn't really mean much at all. Avengers are not automatically super powerful nor does anything about your power change between being an Avenger and just being a Super Hero/Villan.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    She's not an Avenger in Wandavision.

    After Captain Marvel 2 she may be an Avenger....but right now...she isn't.

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    He didn't say anything about them being "bad guys". He asked if they were Avengers. And for most of the movie... they aren't.

    And Tony wasn't an Avenger in IM1. He also wasn't an Avenger in IM2. Thor Odinson isn't an Avenger in Thor 1. Steve Rogers is not an Avenger in CA1. Carol Danvers isn't an Avenger in CM. Because there were no Avengers in the time frames those movies are set.
    I can agree with most of this minus the Steve Rogers part. His first movie is literally titled Captain America: The First Avenger.

  17. #717
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    We have an Avenger intervening. Her name is Monica.
    She's not an Avenger. Yet. She's literally just realized she has powers. "Avenger" is the label for a membership in a particular semi-governmental defense initiative, not "any random person who has powers".

    When someone taps her on the shoulder and asks if she's heard about the Avenger Initiative, and she smiles, then we can consider her an Avenger. Not before.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Agents of shield isn’t even mcu, and takes place after his death, so... I’m talking before he was given alien blood which affected his physiology.
    It shares characters, particularly Coulson. It was used to deliberately set up the Hydra reveal in Winter Soldier. It went into a lot of detail about the Kree in later seasons, which we've delved even further into with Captain Marvel.

    The line between AoS and the MCU is entirely down to the showrunners, really.

    A better way of phrasing it is to use the Marvel canonical universe labelling. AoS isn't "the MCU", because the C in there is "cinematic", and AoS is on TV. So it's the "MTU", kind of thing. But both the MCU and MTU are part of the same Earth-199999 universe. Much the same way that a regular Fantastic Four comic and a Moon Knight comic might both take place in Earth-616 continuity, even if neither references the other and they have wildly different tones and graphical styles and so on.

    AoS and the MCU are part of the same continuity. Canonically. We could argue if that maybe changed in the very last seasons, between the time jumps and all that; that may have shunted AoS out of Earth-199999 into a new separate universe, but until that first break in Season 5? Seasons 1-4? Absolutely continuous with the MCU universe, without real question.

  18. #718

    so catchy
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  19. #719
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    A better way of phrasing it is to use the Marvel canonical universe labelling. AoS isn't "the MCU", because the C in there is "cinematic", and AoS is on TV. So it's the "MTU", kind of thing. But both the MCU and MTU are part of the same Earth-199999 universe. Much the same way that a regular Fantastic Four comic and a Moon Knight comic might both take place in Earth-616 continuity, even if neither references the other and they have wildly different tones and graphical styles and so on.

    AoS and the MCU are part of the same continuity. Canonically. We could argue if that maybe changed in the very last seasons, between the time jumps and all that; that may have shunted AoS out of Earth-199999 into a new separate universe, but until that first break in Season 5? Seasons 1-4? Absolutely continuous with the MCU universe, without real question.
    It’s more like when someone else considers you a friend and you don’t feel likewise, but you let it go and don’t feel the need to outright state they’re not. The shows play in that sandbox but they’re not officially part of it according to the people (person) in charge of that universe and it’s been acknowledged as far back as by whedon during s1 of Aos that The studio doesn’t consider them canon. Now that feige is in charge of all of marvel the D+ shows are (obviously.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    so catchy
    It’s been cool to see that actress get to go nuts. I loved whenever she showed up in parks and rec.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post

    so catchy
    Yeah. This song is stuck in my head. Can't wait until the new episode on Friday.

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